Oklahoma smoking laws set to change

[Zuplar]

Anyone else find it funny that someone driving a combustion engine is upset about the cigarette smoke coming from another combustion engine?

How dare you try and make sense of it.

[Pete]

There have been tons of laws and regulations about combustion engines for decades.

As a consequence, emissions are way, way down; you barely even seen smog here in L.A. any more.

[Zuplar]

There have been tons of laws and regulations about combustion engines for decades.

As a consequence, emissions are way, way down; you barely even seen smog here in L.A. any more.

Is that a joke? Cause when I was there in November there was smog every morning. I couldn't believe how terrible it was. Of course that's not something we really deal with in OKC so maybe I'm just a lot more sensitive to it.

[adaniel]

I didn't say we didn't, I said I'm against such infringements on liberty.

So are you okay with retail establishments not allowing minorities or females? Saying you can't is infringing on who they can and cannot serve. Are you okay with restaurants serving spoiled/rotten food or keeping unsanitary conditions to save money? Why should a health inspector dictate their business, after all.

Not trying to put you on the spot, but when you start talking about no "infringement on liberty" you are going to allow some pretty unsavory stuff. And frankly, smoking is considered by most to be a public nuisance and health hazard, which in no way is considered a "liberty" under most laws.

[Pete]

Is that a joke? Cause when I was there in November there was smog every morning. I couldn't believe how terrible it was. Of course that's not something we really deal with in OKC so maybe I'm just a lot more sensitive to it.

What you probably saw was the marine layer or just haze, not smog. There hasn't been visible smog in L.A. in quite a while. I worked on the 29th floor of a downtown building and never once saw it.

Study: Cleaner cars have reduced some Los Angeles air pollution levels by 98% | MNN - Mother Nature Network

Smog levels have dropped 98% in the last 50 years and 48% in just the last decade, despite 3x the amount of gas being burned as compared to five decades ago.


The point being that trying to say it's ironic to talk about smoking in cars when cars also emit harmful fumes does not take into account that car emissions have been one of the most heavily -- and successfully -- regulated areas in U.S. history. If anything, it just points out how late to the party some states are in regulating smoking.

[Zuplar]

So are you okay with retail establishments not allowing minorities or females? Saying you can't is infringing on who they can and cannot serve. Are you okay with restaurants serving spoiled/rotten food or keeping unsanitary conditions to save money? Why should a health inspector dictate their business, after all.

Not trying to put you on the spot, but when you start talking about no "infringement on liberty" you are going to allow some pretty unsavory stuff. And frankly, smoking is considered by most to be a public nuisance and health hazard, which in no way is considered a "liberty" under most laws.

I'm okay with all that, and here's why, businesses that do that kind of stuff, won't survive or at least the majority won't. The one's that do will be well know on social media, and I wouldn't frequent them. Most people wouldn't.

[Zuplar]

What you probably saw was the marine layer or just haze, not smog. There hasn't been visible smog in L.A. in quite a while. I worked on the 29th floor of a downtown building and never once saw it.

Study: Cleaner cars have reduced some Los Angeles air pollution levels by 98% | MNN - Mother Nature Network

Smog levels have dropped 98% in the last 50 years and 48% in just the last decade, despite 3x the amount of gas being burned as compared to five decades ago.


The point being that trying to say it's ironic to talk about smoking in cars when cars also emit harmful fumes does not take into account that car emissions have been one of the most heavily -- and successfully -- regulated areas in U.S. history. If anything, it just points out how late to the party some states are in regulating smoking.

Maybe. Just seemed like it was everywhere. I actually asked the person there that I was visiting and said what's with all the smog, and they said they hadn't noticed anything. Made me kind of think they were just used to it.

Cars have come a long ways though.

[Pete]

Maybe. Just seemed like it was everywhere. I actually asked the person there that I was visiting and said what's with all the smog, and they said they hadn't noticed anything. Made me kind of think they were just used to it.

Cars have come a long ways though.

I haven't seen smog in a very long time so I doubt very seriously that is what you saw.

It's virtually a non-issue any more.

[Bill Robertson]

There have been tons of laws and regulations about combustion engines for decades.

As a consequence, emissions are way, way down; you barely even seen smog here in L.A. any more.

Also, I can drive or even ride the M/C all day long and not smell like car exhaust. If I go to Fox & Hound or similar for a pool tournament I can't wear my clothes into the house.

[adaniel]

I'm okay with all that, and here's why, businesses that do that kind of stuff, won't survive or at least the majority won't. The one's that do will be well know on social media, and I wouldn't frequent them. Most people wouldn't.

This is a flawed argument libertarian-types like to use, that "the market" will somehow punish those who do wrong. Of course the real world doesn't operate so black and white. We are only a generation removed from both rampant discrimination and very loose restaurants regulations and very few businesses felt repercussions back then, otherwise they would have stopped doing it on their own. It was/is particularly problematic in smaller towns with limited choices. Likewise, very few places in OK have gone smoke free even though the vast majority of this state doesn't smoke. Why don't they reflect "the market?"

[jerrywall]

Also, I can drive or even ride the M/C all day long and not smell like car exhaust. If I go to Fox & Hound or similar for a pool tournament I can't wear my clothes into the house.

I'm more sympathetic to someone who works in a smoking establishment, than I am a customer who chooses to enter the establishment. Banning smoking on that viewpoint is sort of like forcing a book store to sell pizza. You know what you're getting into going in. I avoid the typical Hudson's because of the smoke, for example.

[Pete]

Keep in mind that all bars and restaurants are workplaces and that smoking is banned in all other workplaces for very good reasons.

It's not just the customers who are affected, it's the people who work there.

And before someone trots out the "Well, they should work somewhere else" argument, that doesn't fly when it comes to other industries that have in the past caused harm to their workers, such as mining and working with nuclear waste. Virtually every workplace is very heavily regulated to safeguard the health and safety of workers.

The only reason this has been slow to happen is the strong lobbying effort of bar and restaurant associations and the misguided notion that their business will be hurt (has already been disproven in many other states and countries).

[Zuplar]

This is a flawed argument libertarian-types like to use, that "the market" will somehow punish those who do wrong. Of course the real world doesn't operate so black and white. We are only a generation removed from both rampant discrimination and very loose restaurants regulations and very few businesses felt repercussions back then, otherwise they would have stopped doing it on their own. It was/is particularly problematic in smaller towns with limited choices. Likewise, very few places in OK have gone smoke free even though the vast majority of this state doesn't smoke. Why don't they reflect "the market?"

I'm pretty sure today that the vast majority of people born today are going to more progressive than their counterparts 75 years ago. That progression may have been slower had the government not changed laws, but to think those practices wouldn't have mostly phased themselves out over time just isn't realistic.

[TheTravellers]

Anyone else find it funny that someone driving a combustion engine is upset about the cigarette smoke coming from another combustion engine?

Cigarette smoke smells waaaaaaaay nastier than most car/truck exhaust in OKC (excepting the POS ones that spew all kinds of stuff, I"m talking about a normally maintained one).

[adaniel]

I'm pretty sure today that the vast majority of people born today are going to more progressive than their counterparts 75 years ago. That progression may have been slower had the government not changed laws, but to think those practices wouldn't have mostly phased themselves out over time just isn't realistic.

This is a fair point.

IDK, I don't feel like people change that much and will just glide on inertia unless pushed. Maybe I'm just cynical and I feel that sometimes society needs more than just a little nudge.

In any event, I'm getting way off topic here. I very much hope OK gets its smoking level down, I've buried too many relatives who used tobacco.

[Zuplar]

This is a fair point.

IDK, I don't feel like people change that much and will just glide on inertia unless pushed. Maybe I'm just cynical and I feel that sometimes society needs more than just a little nudge.

In any event, I'm getting way off topic here. I very much hope OK gets its smoking level down, I've buried too many relatives who used tobacco.

I agree with this. Luckily most in my family have quit.

[turnpup]

I tend to agree with Zuplar, because I suppose I'm one of those "Libertarian types". But the counter-posters make some really good, thought-provoking arguments. That's what I like about reading the threads here. Just when I think I'm 100% one direction, somebody on the other side says something that sets me to thinking about it differently. It may or may not make me change my mind, but it's a good thing to at least *consider* others' viewpoints. That's pretty cool to be able to read all the varying ideas and opinions, IMO.

[Stew]

Philosophically I am against these type of smoking bans but if it passes then eh I'll enjoy the injustice in smoke free comfort.

[trousers]

Cigarette smoke smells waaaaaaaay nastier than most car/truck exhaust in OKC (excepting the POS ones that spew all kinds of stuff, I"m talking about a normally maintained one).

Oh I agree. My comment was really directed to the poster that was complaining about someone in a completely different car smoking while they were at the same stoplight. That just seemed to be a tad bit much.

[OkiePoke]

Oh I agree. My comment was really directed to the poster that was complaining about someone in a completely different car smoking while they were at the same stoplight. That just seemed to be a tad bit much.

It is annoying when you can smell the person in the car next to you smoking.

[okie405]

Good!

What about e-cigarrettes and hookah?

I don't particularly enjoy inhaling cigarettes or e-cigarettes... bad health effects, cancer, and what not.

If people want to smoke or e-cig in their own homes, go for it.

[OKCRT]

One of these day in the not too distant future smoking will be outlawed all together.
If you are caught taking a puff you get 90 days in jail.

That is just the world we live in today. It's coming.

[Zuplar]

I will concur with the e-cigs statement. Those need to be banned in public places as well.

[Bill Robertson]

I'm more sympathetic to someone who works in a smoking establishment, than I am a customer who chooses to enter the establishment. Banning smoking on that viewpoint is sort of like forcing a book store to sell pizza. You know what you're getting into going in. I avoid the typical Hudson's because of the smoke, for example.

I sympathize with the workers too. We were regulars of a non-smoking bar & grill that closed recently and a major concern of some of the employees, our friends, was finding good employment in a non-smoking environment. But as a customer that loves shooting pool I'm very, very limited in where I can go since I really hate the smell of smoke. Let alone the health effects. If there were even a few non-smoking bars set up just like the smoking ones I would be against a smoking ban. There is Main Event now but the non-existent service there has been covered in another thread and you have tons of unsupervised kids running all over which is not conducive to shooting pool. Yes, I'm being selfish that I want to shoot pool in a non-smoking environment more than I care about the rights of smokers but it is what it is.

[Roger S]

Yes, I'm being selfish that I want to shoot pool in a non-smoking environment more than I care about the rights of smokers but it is what it is.

I'm right there with ya but I don't consider it being selfish...... When it comes to rights. Which one holds more sway? My right to breathe clean air or their right to pollute the air?

I think it's more about the irresponsibility of smokers, than about rights, but how do you have any expectation of someone partaking of such an irresponsible habit doing the responsible thing? They don't care about their own health. So they dang sure don't care about anyone elses.