West Outer Loop

[OUman]

Off topic, but while speaking of Lubbock - I don't know about anyone else but it was a surprise to me when I found out Lubbock metro is 301,038 residents (estimated 2013 population). Of course a large chunk of that can be attributed to Texas Tech but still... quite a small city. I had no idea it was that large.

[Urbanized]

If you build a west outer loop, of course people will move out there. Here's a parable to help understand.

Let's say there's an island just off the coast. I could say "You know, based on this model, people will be moving onto this island in the next 10 years. We should build a road to this island." So the road is built..and guess what, people now have access to the island and are are moving there! It's a self-fulfilling prophesy and the people who built the road can say "See, our models were correct."...

Shhhh...PluPan doesn't believe in the principle of induced demand.

[Just the facts]

Geographer - I so wish more people understood that transportation systems drive development. It has throughout world history but it seems to be a totally foreign concept to a lot of people. For some reason people think the transportation exist in a location because that is where the people are, but it is the other way around - the people are there because that is where the transportation is.

[Zuplar]

My biggest issue is the I44/240 interchange is a mess and really constricted.

[catch22]

My biggest issue is the I44/240 interchange is a mess and really constricted.

I believe the 8-year plan (not sure where it is inside of that window) calls for widening of I-44 South bound to 3 lanes at 74th street all the way to 89th street.

That would turn the current configuration of 1 through lane to I-44 and 1 exit only, to 2 thru lanes and 1 exit. And would allow that 3rd lane (2nd thru) to have a mile to merge and zipper in.

Should help that interchange quite a bit.

[Zuplar]

I believe the 8-year plan (not sure where it is inside of that window) calls for widening of I-44 South bound to 3 lanes at 74th street all the way to 89th street.

That would turn the current configuration of 1 through lane to I-44 and 1 exit only, to 2 thru lanes and 1 exit. And would allow that 3rd lane (2nd thru) to have a mile to merge and zipper in.

Should help that interchange quite a bit.

Would make a massive difference IMO. As it is now this ends up affecting traffic for a few miles South of where SW74th. Seems as though traffic starts to straighten out past 104th and then it's not too bad.

[catch22]

Yep. The main source of the congestion on I-240/I-44 is the single lane to I-44 SB, having 2 thru lanes would make a huge difference.

What will never be fixed is the on ramp from 54th street. The second source of congestion is traffic trying to get onto I-240, having to get over into the lanes that continue on 240 and not the ones that split off toward I-44.

[Plutonic Panda]

Wtf... That makes no sense..... People are moving out there regardless. Plus your Island scenario is different. We live on flat open land.... There is no water or any mountains or some other barrier to prevent us from sprawling....

[Just the facts]

People are only moving where there are roads. Do you know anyone who lives where there is no road?

[Rover]

Here we go again.

[ljbab728]

People are only moving where there are roads. Do you know anyone who lives where there is no road?

Daniel Boone?

[gopokes88]

People are only moving where there are roads. Do you know anyone who lives where there is no road?

Venice Italy.

[Plutonic Panda]

People are only moving where there are roads. Do you know anyone who lives where there is no road?

There are plenty of people that live where there are no roads.

[Urbanized]

If they chose to move beyond the roads and City services, is it then a taxpayer responsibility to deliver these things to their door at great and disproportionate cost?

[GaryOKC6]

Geographer - I so wish more people understood that transportation systems drive development. It has throughout world history but it seems to be a totally foreign concept to a lot of people. For some reason people think the transportation exist in a location because that is where the people are, but it is the other way around - the people are there because that is where the transportation is.

You are absolutely right. Access is key to future development.

[Of Sound Mind]

Daniel Boone?

Is he still living? "Do you know anyone who lives where there is no road?"

[Of Sound Mind]

Venice Italy.

Their "roads" just happen to be water-based rather than ground-based. The principle still applies.

[Of Sound Mind]

If they chose to move beyond the roads and City services, is it then a taxpayer responsibility to deliver these things to their door at great and disproportionate cost?

Absolutely not.

[Plutonic Panda]

If they chose to move beyond the roads and City services, is it then a taxpayer responsibility to deliver these things to their door at great and disproportionate cost?

Should someone who lives by Quail Springs pay taxes for the maintenance of a street car or build/maintenance of a computer rail they will likely never use?

[Just the facts]

Daniel Boone?

Even he lived where he had access to transportation systems - rivers and walkable terrain. He didn't live where he couldn't get to and that is the whole point: people live where they can get to. Remove the access (and for 99.9999% all you have to do is remove the easy access) and people won't live there.

[Just the facts]

Should someone who lives by Quail Springs pay taxes for the maintenance of a street car or build/maintenance of a computer rail they will likely never use?

I think that is the whole point of Regional Transit Authority where those paying into the system will do so based on their proximity to the system. Of course, they will still get to ride it for the same fee as those who paid for it but what can you do.

[bombermwc]

If you want funding...then you need to support more taxes...simple.

[Just the facts]

If you want funding...then you need to support more taxes...simple.

I agree 100%. We need to start living within the limits of the tax revenue we are willing to pay.

[rezman]

Should someone who lives by Quail Springs pay taxes for the maintenance of a street car or build/maintenance of a computer rail they will likely never use?

You mean like having people that live in the outer OKC limits pay for the improvements downtown, in addition to having their tax dollars fund the location of private businesses?.

[CuatrodeMayo]

People are only moving where there are roads. Do you know anyone who lives where there is no road?