New Jersey Say No To Tesla Direct Sales

[Bunty]

Because, Bunty, we can't waste time looking at motor vehicles when we could be in church worshipping our Lord and Savior Jessssusss Christ!!! [amen] Com' on man, get with the program dude. We need the government to tell us to do that.

So it would still be too sinful to buy a car on Sunday after getting out of church services? But surely okay to head straight for Wal-Mart.

[Plutonic Panda]

So it would still be too sinful to buy a car on Sunday after getting out of church services? But surely okay to head straight for Wal-Mart.

Oh no you didn't just talk smack on Walmart!

[Just the facts]

Kerry, that's exactly how I remember our family buying cars when I was much younger. We went to the dealer to decide for sure what kind of car and then told them what accessories we wanted and what color we wanted. It did take a while to get the car though.

This isn't home video is it?

The good news is Jupiter Chevy won't do this to you, and why you might ask. Because they already pre-ordered the car for you and you have to take retail delivery from dealer stock.

[blangtang]

Has anyone seen a Tesla around OKC?

[zcamaro70]

I have seen at least one running around the south okc/moore area.....

[Plutonic Panda]

Has anyone seen a Tesla around OKC?

I've seen them quite a bit lately. I'm seeing one at least once a week(excluding my neighbor who has Roadster and my grandmothers neighbor who has Model S). My neighbor also has the Model X pre-ordered.

Teslas are cool and all, but I think they are a fad and do NOT see electric vehicles ever being mass produced let alone leading the future.

[mugofbeer]

Why not? I think e-cars definitely have a place in urban areas. I'd get one in a heartbeat if i had room for a 3rd car.

[Cid]

I've seen them quite a bit lately. I'm seeing one at least once a week(excluding my neighbor who has Roadster and my grandmothers neighbor who has Model S). My neighbor also has the Model X pre-ordered.

Teslas are cool and all, but I think they are a fad and do NOT see electric vehicles ever being mass produced let alone leading the future.

How many cars does a manufacturer have to make before they are considered "mass produced"?

[MustangGT]

I've seen them quite a bit lately. I'm seeing one at least once a week(excluding my neighbor who has Roadster and my grandmothers neighbor who has Model S). My neighbor also has the Model X pre-ordered.

Teslas are cool and all, but I think they are a fad and do NOT see electric vehicles ever being mass produced let alone leading the future.

Quite correct. Today and into the near future they are gimmicks at best for folks with more money than automotive sense. If and only if battery capacity increases to match or exceed the range of a fossil fueled machine then they will be novelties only. Oh and the recharge time has to be no more than the time to refuel with gasoline.

[Cid]

Quite correct. Today and into the near future they are gimmicks at best for folks with more money than automotive sense. If and only if battery capacity increases to match or exceed the range of a fossil fueled machine then they will be novelties only. Oh and the recharge time has to be no more than the time to refuel with gasoline.

Just getting this straight...

Electric cars are gimmicks and will stay that way until -

1. Battery capacity increases to match or exceed range of fossil fueled machine.
Has range improved from previous consumer electric cars? The answer has to be yes.
Is there any reason to think this trend will continue? The answer has to be yes.

2. Recharge time has to be no more than the time to refuel with gasoline.
Has recharge time improved in the past? The answer has to be yes.
Is there any reason to think this trend will continue. The answer has to be yes.

Also, why wait to recharge? Why not just swap out the battery twice as fast as a gas station stop?
Battery Swap | Tesla Motors

[Plutonic Panda]

How many cars does a manufacturer have to make before they are considered "mass produced"?

Mass produced doesn't really have to do with how many cars they make. If a car company made a ten thousand cars in a span of 20 years, that wouldn't be mass production. If they made 10,000 in a few months and had them constantly rolling off of an assembly line, then that would be mass production. Tesla doesn't constantly have them coming off from a production line one after the other since the demand is not there.

Electric cars are not really that practical and they certainly do NOTHING to help the environment. Maybe you ought to have a look how much more damage making just one battery for Tesla's cars does than a brand new Ford Taurus.

[Plutonic Panda]

Just getting this straight...

Electric cars are gimmicks and will stay that way until -

1. Battery capacity increases to match or exceed range of fossil fueled machine.
Has range improved from previous consumer electric cars? The answer has to be yes.
Is there any reason to think this trend will continue? The answer has to be yes.

2. Recharge time has to be no more than the time to refuel with gasoline.
Has recharge time improved in the past? The answer has to be yes.
Is there any reason to think this trend will continue. The answer has to be yes.

Also, why wait to recharge? Why not just swap out the battery twice as fast as a gas station stop?
Battery Swap | Tesla Motors

The range of Tesla's are quite low actually. To get the claimed 300 mile range, you have to baby the throttle like an old man. I've driven them before(both the Model s and the Roadster), they are cool cars and fun to drive, but will never work in mass use. Will the range increase in electric vehicles? Yes. But by the time the range of electric vehicles gets to where we are today, gas powered cars will have already advanced to 50-60+mpg. Mileage in gas cars is increasing every single day.

The battery swap is cool and all..... but when I was walking with Kerry, he brought up a really good point: How would that ever work in mass use? Those batteries aren't light and are going to have people tirelessly running around swapping batteries non-stop? It makes no sense. It's a pain that is not worth it.

[Cid]

Mass produced doesn't really have to do with how many cars they make. If a car company made a ten thousand cars in a span of 20 years, that wouldn't be mass production. If they made 10,000 in a few months and had them constantly rolling off of an assembly line, then that would be mass production. Tesla doesn't constantly have them coming off from a production line one after the other since the demand is not there.

Electric cars are not really that practical and they certainly do NOTHING to help the environment. Maybe you ought to have a look how much more damage making just one battery for Tesla's cars does than a brand new Ford Taurus.

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm asking a simple question. You answered with how it has nothing to do with how many, but then said it does have something to do with how many.

If I glean from your answer correctly, it isn't JUST how many, but how many over a period of time. You quoted 10,000 in a few months(a quarter). Tesla hit around 20,000 in 2013, so around 5,000 per quarter. They hit almost 7,000 in the last quarter of 2013. At this rate, they'll hit 10,000 per quarter in no time. In your opinion,will they be considered "mass produced" then?
Link for reference:
How Many Tesla Model S Electric Cars Have Been Built So Far?

Also you said "Tesla doesn't constantly have them coming off from a production line one after the other since the demand is not there."
Simply. Not. True. Great link describing their problems keeping up with... demand.
Tesla slammed, despite expanding production

You also said "Electric cars are not really that practical and they certainly do NOTHING to help the environment."
The Tesla Model S recharges overnight on a regular electrical outlet for the vast majority of city drivers. No gas station stop required, just plug in when you get home. I agree that for long road trips, they aren't quite there. I have driven in my own car out of state exactly 5 times in 2013. I think that is likely pretty average. In ALL of those cases, we took the family van, not my daily driver, so having the Tesla wouldn't have affected us in any way. Environmental concerns aside, what is impractical about electric cars, the Tesla Model S in particular?

Do you have the internet? I'm beginning to think you've decided before actually knowing the facts.

[Cid]

The battery swap is cool and all..... but when I was walking with Kerry, he brought up a really good point: How would that ever work in mass use? Those batteries aren't light and are going to have people tirelessly running around swapping batteries non-stop? It makes no sense. It's a pain that is not worth it.

How would what ever work in mass use?

Did you watch the video? There are no "people" tirelessly running around.

Maybe you were questioning the feasibilty of convenience?

Having stations dotted all over the place on every corner with a pit of some sort that would constantly be swapping out batteries for people?

As opposed to having gas stations all over the place on every corner with a pit full of gasoline that would constantly refilled by other trucks and used to refuel people's cars?

[Plutonic Panda]

Also you said "Tesla doesn't constantly have them coming off from a production line one after the other since the demand is not there."
Simply. Not. True. Great link describing their problems keeping up with... demand.
Tesla slammed, despite expanding production

Doesn't matter. That's good for an electric car. It doesn't even come close the demand of gas or diesel cars. Provide all the links you want, but when you're able to have a car tailored just to you, built and delivered in 2 months, there is not really a huge demand for that car.

Environmental concerns aside, what is impractical about electric cars, the Tesla Model S in particular?

Are you for real? I've already answered that.

Tesla's are NOT a mass production car and likely never will be. When they come off of an assembly line making 100,000+ a year, then we'll talk. You apparently have no clue what mass production is. Have a look at this Auto Sales

Do you have the internet? I'm beginning to think you've decided before actually knowing the facts.

No, I don't have internet. I'm sending these messages to a wizard on the moon who then sends them back to Pentagon where my trusty sidekick Mark Waldo posts these responses on OKCTalk and then sends the replies back to me on the space elevator in South Africa.

[Plutonic Panda]

How would what ever work in mass use?

I get it, you're just trying to troll me now. I'll bite, but it'll be my last response to this seeing as how we are going nowhere.

I clearly stated, that battery swapping would NOT work in mass use. I don't know the exact numbers to the average gas station customer count, but I'm willing to bet it is upwards of 500 people an hour. Try seeing how that would work with battery swapping... You do know to that batteries don't last forever and the more you re-charge them, the faster they loose their charge. You could buy new ones, but that defeats the purpose of having a "green" car.

Anyhow, we'll see what will happen. Time will ultimately prove who is right and I'm hanging on the side that Tesla is not going to survive very long. The last I heard, they posted their first monthly profit back in August and have since dipped back into the negative. Elon Musk is an awesome guy and I think he is an incredible inventor and I want Tesla to work, I just don't see it happening. Perhaps I'm wrong and it will, hopefully that will be the case.

[Cid]

Doesn't matter. That's good for an electric car. It doesn't even come close the demand of gas or diesel cars. Provide all the links you want, but when you're able to have a car tailored just to you, built and delivered in 2 months, there is not really a huge demand for that car.

Right. "Back up all your assertions and provide links to facts all you want. It won't change my preconceived notions."

Anyway, nice goal post shift. That's not what you said. You said "Tesla doesn't constantly have them coming off from a production line one after the other since the demand is not there." This isn't true. They are expanding production because they are trying to keep up with demand.

Now you are saying that because you can have one built to your specifications and delivered to you in two months, that is an indicator of low demand. That is a totally different argument.

Tesla's are NOT a mass production car and likely never will be. When they come off of an assembly line making 100,000+ a year, then we'll talk. You apparently have no clue what mass production is. Have a look at this Auto Sales

Again, nice goal post shift. We went from 10,000 every quarter, to 100,000 per year, or 25,000 per quarter. So, again, I ask what does it take to be considered "mass produced? An assembly line? Automated robots? 100 fully built cars per day? 6 cars per hour in a 16 hour work day? One every 10 minutes isn't "one right after the other"?

That's what Tesla produces. I guess that's still not "mass-produced? Even though they are outproducing Jaguar and Maserati according to that link you provided, and are barely under Mercedes EClass and BMW 7-Series production numbers, their direct competitors?

No, I don't have internet. I'm sending these messages to a wizard on the moon who then sends them back to Pentagon where my trusty sidekick Mark Waldo posts these responses on OKCTalk and then sends the replies back to me on the space elevator in South Africa.

Well, that does explain things.

[Cid]

I get it, you're just trying to troll me now. I'll bite, but it'll be my last response to this seeing as how we are going nowhere.

I clearly stated, that battery swapping would NOT work in mass use. I don't know the exact numbers to the average gas station customer count, but I'm willing to bet it is upwards of 500 people an hour. Try seeing how that would work with battery swapping... You do know to that batteries don't last forever and the more you re-charge them, the faster they loose their charge. You could buy new ones, but that defeats the purpose of having a "green" car.

Anyhow, we'll see what will happen. Time will ultimately prove who is right and I'm hanging on the side that Tesla is not going to survive very long. The last I heard, they posted their first monthly profit back in August and have since dipped back into the negative. Elon Musk is an awesome guy and I think he is an incredible inventor and I want Tesla to work, I just don't see it happening. Perhaps I'm wrong and it will, hopefully that will be the case.

Me trolling you?!?! Ha! That's a laugh.

You are definitely wrong about one thing in this post. We are definitely going somewhere. We're going to the "poster makes baseless assertions gets his A** handed to him once again" bucket.

Let's put this in perspective for you. Every emerging industry has things to overcome. Do you think any of the things you've said can't be overcome? How did the gas-powered car overcome the lack of refueling stations, roads to drive on, pathetic power, low range, high maintenance costs, safety concerns, etc.

etc.

etc.

[Garin]

How many electric cars do you own Cid? And which brand is it.

[Plutonic Panda]

How many electric cars do you own Cid? And which brand is it.

Don't even waste your time arguing with this fool. I believe that is Sid Burgess(although I could be wrong) and JFT tried this once and it didn't work. When Tesla files for bankruptcy or just fades away, that will ultimately tell the truth and nothing more will need to be said.

The only thing he has going is the current hype for the cars(which won't last long either) and some architect to like his posts just because he disagrees with Plutonic Panda.

[Garin]

Don't even waste your time arguing with this fool. I believe that is Sid Burgess(although I could be wrong) and JFT tried this once and it didn't work. When Tesla files for bankruptcy or just fades away, that will ultimately tell the truth and nothing more will need to be said.
K
The only thing he has going is the current hype for the cars(which won't last long either) and some architect to like his posts just because he disagrees with Plutonic Panda.

I think you might be right. It is definitely someone using another login.

[Cid]

How many electric cars do you own Cid? And which brand is it.

None.

[Cid]

Don't even waste your time arguing with this fool. I believe that is Sid Burgess(although I could be wrong) and JFT tried this once and it didn't work.

You guys are funny with your conspiracies.

When Tesla files for bankruptcy or just fades away, that will ultimately tell the truth and nothing more will need to be said.

The only thing he has going is the current hype for the cars(which won't last long either) and some architect to like his posts just because he disagrees with Plutonic Panda.

No, no it wouldn't. Unless Tesla going into bankruptcy drags the entire electric car/hyrbid car industry with it, the large manufacturers will continue down this road.

[Prunepicker]

I'm curious, why should the federal government be involved with private
business, unless it's something illegal?

I say nothing.

[Garin]

None.

You walk everywhere ?