Global Cities

[bchris02]

True. Birmingham is 'sufficient' and it is closer to Atlanta than OKC is to DFW. Would you say however that Birmingham feels more vibrant and cultured than OKC? What about Des Moines? Jacksonville? My guess would be yes but that may be my own bias and I haven't spent enough time in those cities to say for sure one way or another.

I wonder what role retail plays into this list. Oklahoma City's shopping especially on the upscale end is an absolute joke for a city this size. If that is taken into account I am sure that knocks some points off our overall score. The criteria for a city to be 'sufficient' is, per the article, "cities that have a sufficient degree of services so as to not be obviously dependent on world cities." If you live in OKC, chances are you take regular trips to Dallas to shop or to Tulsa to see a concert or live band play. I am sure that doesn't bode well for getting us on this list.

[AP]

If you live in OKC, chances are you take regular trips to Dallas to shop or to Tulsa to see a concert or live band play. I am sure that doesn't bode well for getting us on this list.

I don't agree with this. Maybe some people do, but the large majority of my friends don't. The only time I make trips to either of those places is to see friends.

[venture]

People in this city have a complex for lists. It ranks up there with the whole child minded complex I mentioned on the airport expansion thread with the whole "big league city" stupidity.

I don't agree with this. Maybe some people do, but the large majority of my friends don't. The only time I make trips to either of those places is to see friends.

I'm with you here. I go to Dallas for work and that's about it. Did the Dallas on the weekend thing plenty while younger...it's nothing special. I'll go to Chicago or Seattle if really need culture.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah, let's make sure we get our culture fix not even understanding where or how culture even comes to be. That's real original, huh?

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't agree with this. Maybe some people do, but the large majority of my friends don't. The only time I make trips to either of those places is to see friends.

he said "chances are" and he's right. I know people that will even go to Tulsa(believe it or not) for a weekend shopping experience. Bchris is right and quite a bit of people go to Dallas at least once or twice a year strictly for a shopping experience.

[AP]

he said "chances are" and he's right. I know people that will even go to Tulsa(believe it or not) for a weekend shopping experience. Bchris is right and quite a bit of people go to Dallas at least once or twice a year strictly for a shopping experience.

He said regular trips. Once or twice a year is not a regular trip. What stores do you refer to when you say weekend shopping trip to Tulsa?

[Plutonic Panda]

He said regular trips. Once or twice a year is not a regular trip. What stores do you refer to when you say weekend shopping trip to Tulsa?

I personally never have gone to Tulsa to shop, but I've quite a few people say they're going to Tulsa for a day of shopping. Why they would choose to go to that city, I'll never understand, but people do.

For regular, I don't know anyone who goes regularly though. I just thought Bcrhis meant like a few times a year. That is pretty bad for a city of 1.4 million people. We could and should have better shopping options here. It is only a matter of time though before stores like Nordstrom's open up here.

[bchris02]

He said regular trips. Once or twice a year is not a regular trip. What stores do you refer to when you say weekend shopping trip to Tulsa?

I would say a few times per year is "regular trips." I never go to Tulsa and rarely go to Dallas but know a lot of people who do quite often.

[ljbab728]

I lived in the OKC area all of my life and I have never known anyone who told me anything about going to Tulsa to shop. The only people I ever hear say anything about shopping in Dallas were already going there for some other reason.

[bchris02]

I lived in the OKC area all of my life and I have never known anyone who told me anything about going to Tulsa to shop. The only people I ever hear say anything about shopping in Dallas were already going there for some other reason.

People go to Tulsa all the time for live music and concerts, probably much moreso than shopping. If you are going to take a road trip to shop, you might as well go to Dallas.

[ljbab728]

People go to Tulsa all the time for live music and concerts, probably much moreso than shopping. If you are going to take a road trip to shop, you might as well go to Dallas.

I wasn't debating the music aspects, just the shopping.

[NWOKCGuy]

I moved to OKC from Austin in 2005 and have been to Tulsa once in 2006 (to see Interpol at Cain's). I heard how great Tulsa was from my friends who were native to the NE part of the state and to say I was not impressed by my trip up there would be an understatement. IMO, Tulsa still lives off it's past reputation from longtime residents but OKC has way more going for it.

Also, I really don't know anyone that goes shopping in Dallas. I have a few friends that make a trip to IKEA once a year but for the most part, any retail OKC doesn't offer, we purchase online.

[Urbanized]

That Interpol show was actually Sept 2005. Best show I've ever seen at Cain's (of dozens) and one of my favorite of all time (of many hundreds, likely close to 1K).

Agree about Tulsa living in the past - especially when it comes to Tulsa/OKC comparisons - but it has seen a dramatic uptick in downtown redevelopment of late and is much-improved since you were last there. You owe yourself (and Tulsa) another visit.

[LocoAko]

I moved to OKC from Austin in 2005 and have been to Tulsa once in 2006 (to see Interpol at Cain's). I heard how great Tulsa was from my friends who were native to the NE part of the state and to say I was not impressed by my trip up there would be an understatement. IMO, Tulsa still lives off it's past reputation from longtime residents but OKC has way more going for it.

Also, I really don't know anyone that goes shopping in Dallas. I have a few friends that make a trip to IKEA once a year but for the most part, any retail OKC doesn't offer, we purchase online.

Yeah, in my experience IKEA is the only thing that specifically draws my friends down to Dallas in terms of shopping.

[bchris02]

Coming from a larger city with much better retail, Costco, Harris Teeter, and IKEA are the stores I miss most. Unfortunately I believe the OKC metro would probably need to increase its population by 50% before there would be a chance of IKEA opening here.

[traxx]

It's funny how we'll dismiss certain lists as irrelevant while praising certain lists in that cast okc in a favorable light.

Instead of downplaying the importance of a Wikipedia list that has Des Moines and Tulsa and Madison in esteem why can't we accept it and strive for better? I think the former does nothing for our civic development. Just sarong "they're bias, using our perception for the last 20 years" does nothing. I've been to many of the 'sufficient' cities and they mostly feel more urban and cultured than the home town. What can we do to improve?

I take all lists with a grain of salt.

I definitely think we should try to make this city better but not with the end game of getting on some list. If we just chase list and try to put a check next to every box on a list's criteria then we won't be doing what's best for our city and for us. We'll be doing what someone else deems is best or important.

Make our city better and if we land on a list because of it, great.

[bchris02]

I take all lists with a grain of salt.

I definitely think we should try to make this city better but not with the end game of getting on some list. If we just chase list and try to put a check next to every box on a list's criteria then we won't be doing what's best for our city and for us. We'll be doing what someone else deems is best or important.

Make our city better and if we land on a list because of it, great.

I think this list is a little different than something like a Forbes list which really don't amount to much other than positive (or negative) press. This list ranks all major cities worldwide based on set criteria, and if we were to go by this list, OKC compares unfavorably to the likes of Des Moines, Tulsa, and Birmingham Alabama. The question is why?

[traxx]

I think this list is a little different than something like a Forbes list which really don't amount to much other than positive (or negative) press. This list ranks all major cities worldwide based on set criteria, and if we were to go by this list, OKC compares unfavorably to the likes of Des Moines, Tulsa, and Birmingham Alabama. The question is why?

Which brings me back to my original question; How many people are going to notice that? Who's going to know that OKC ranks lower than those cities on this list? I looked at the list and after NYC and London, I stopped reading. And that's an honest question. If it turns out most people are aware of this list and read it through to the end, then I can see the conern for OKC not being on it. If OKC does get on that list, what will it do for the city? In what ways will it help?

[bchris02]

Which brings me back to my original question; How many people are going to notice that? Who's going to know that OKC ranks lower than those cities on this list? I looked at the list and after NYC and London, I stopped reading. And that's an honest question. If it turns out most people are aware of this list and read it through to the end, then I can see the conern for OKC not being on it. If OKC does get on that list, what will it do for the city? In what ways will it help?

The end goal shouldn't be getting on this list because ultimately like you said, this isn't a list very many people care about so nobody is really going to know whether OKC is or is not on it except for statistics geeks. That said, improving quality of life in OKC to the point that I, and probably most others here would like to see should land us a place on the list by default. Des Moines is "sufficient" and their entire metro population is smaller than OKC's city population. I would be interested to know what metrics were used and where OKC falls short. From what I've gathered, this list appears to be more heavily focused on economics rather than cultural amenities. If anybody is familiar with Des Moines, it is a very sophisticated, white collar city and thus pulls well over its weight for its size.

Richmond is a very close peer city to OKC and they have achieved "high sufficiency" status. If anybody has been to Richmond its easy to see why, but there is no reason this city can't strive to reach that standard.

[traxx]

improving quality of life in OKC ...should land us a place on the list by default.

That's my point.

And I agree that it seems to focus almost entirely on economics. After reading that Wikipedia page again it looked as if that was the primary criteria. So having museums and neat places to eat etc. isn't going to have much if any impact on where you place on this list.

[NWOKCGuy]

That Interpol show was actually Sept 2005. Best show I've ever seen at Cain's (of dozens) and one of my favorite of all time (of many hundreds, likely close to 1K).

Agree about Tulsa living in the past - especially when it comes to Tulsa/OKC comparisons - but it has seen a dramatic uptick in downtown redevelopment of late and is much-improved since you were last there. You owe yourself (and Tulsa) another visit.

Agree - it was a great show and Cain's is a good venue! I'll have to take your word on the rest.

[PWitty]

It's funny how we'll dismiss certain lists as irrelevant while praising certain lists in that cast okc in a favorable light.

Instead of downplaying the importance of a Wikipedia list that has Des Moines and Tulsa and Madison in esteem why can't we accept it and strive for better? I think the former does nothing for our civic development. Just sarong "they're bias, using our perception for the last 20 years" does nothing. I've been to many of the 'sufficient' cities and they mostly feel more urban and cultured than the home town. What can we do to improve?

Because some of those other lists people reference make meaningful comparisons based on the economies and the quality of living across different US cities.

This list gives hardly any justification for how it determines its rankings and is done by a random think tank based in the Geography department at Loughborough University in England. The only justification it gives for how it determines its rankings is "how these cities interact with each other in the context of globalization". Anything past the top 20 or so "global cities" is meaningless IMO. I mean come on, follow the link from the Wikipedia page to the GaWC website. It looks like it was designed by a 5th grader in the 90's.

Any city should always strive to improve, but this list shouldn't be the reason. This is a pretty meaningless list. Just my $0.02.

[PWitty]

If you live in OKC, chances are you take regular trips to Dallas to shop or to Tulsa to see a concert or live band play. I am sure that doesn't bode well for getting us on this list.

You perpetuate this stereotype on here so much. I'm not from OKC, so I'll admit that I haven't grown up around people from OKC all my life, but I have to agree with andrewmperry. The people I know from OKC rarely take trips to Dallas and when they do it is to visit their college friends who live there. I don't know why you think upscale shopping is the be-all-end-all requirement you make it out to be anyways. How often do you think people shop? Heck, I would say that most people I know order things online more often than they buy them in the store these days.

[bchris02]

You perpetuate this stereotype on here so much. I'm not from OKC, so I'll admit that I haven't grown up around people from OKC all my life, but I have to agree with andrewmperry. The people I know from OKC rarely take trips to Dallas and when they do it is to visit their college friends who live there. I don't know why you think upscale shopping is the be-all-end-all requirement you make it out to be anyways. How often do you think people shop? Heck, I would say that most people I know order things online more often than they buy them in the store these days.

I already explained that when I said "regular" trips I mean 2-3 times per year. I know quite a few people who do that. I personally have only been to Tulsa and Dallas once since moving to OKC.

[hoya]

I know people who make multiple trips to Europe every year. It doesn't mean it's a common practice for the majority of people in OKC.

Of course I'm a cheapass so luxury shopping means nothing to me. But you can still buy expensive crap in Oklahoma City. Hell you can buy a Patek Philippe watch at BC Clark if you really want. You know if you've got a spare quarter million dollars.

I'm much more interested in quality of life measurements. Better public transportation, better schools, things like that. With a strong economy and a growing population, if we increase those basic things, we'll get the other stuff you want. Make this a city where lots of people want to live.