Where is Oklahoma...................

[mcca7596]

I grew up in Sulphur, Oklahoma. My in-laws are from Georgia. As far as my experience, I would classify Oklahoma more Southern in culture than anything.

I have lived in Duke, Clinton, Tishomingo, Yukon, and went to OU for a few years. To me Sulphur, Tishomingo, and points east and south have a palpably different culture than western, central, and north central Oklahoma. My point is that while southeast and parts of northeast Oklahoma do have a dominant Southern culture, it always felt more like the Great Plains/Southwest/Texas in the rest of the state to me.

[RadicalModerate]

I suppose that all of this is more a matter of "Where are YOU in regard to Oklahoma.....?" as compared to "Where is Oklahoma . . ." ?
(don't try to make the state fit you. adjust to fit the state. Oklahoma is OK. Has been for a long time. Relatively speaking.)

[OKCisOK4me]

I consider Oklahoma South/Southwest due to geographical composition. Oklahoma is too much of a mixed bag of ethnicity to say that we're predominately anything culture wise, which is why I use geography.

[Stew]

I consider Oklahoma South/Southwest due to geographical composition. Oklahoma is too much of a mixed bag of ethnicity to say that we're predominately anything culture wise, which is why I use geography.

That is very true.

[OKVision4U]

I consider Oklahoma South/Southwest due to geographical composition. Oklahoma is too much of a mixed bag of ethnicity to say that we're predominately anything culture wise, which is why I use geography.

Well, yes we can. We are a southern state by culture. If you peel-back one single layer of "MTV / Cable TV / Generation X", you will see a deeply rooted culture from the south w/ Speech, Food, Music, hospitality, and Christian heritage.

Oklahoma is unique in many ways ( left over land no one wanted / 1889 land run / different Native American tribes ), but the rest is a Farming / Ranching heritage that is from the south & Texas.

[KayneMo]

To me, Oklahoma is at the crossroads of culture and geography and that makes it hard to define Oklahoma, which isn't bad!

[bchris02]

For those who say Oklahoma is in the Southwest, what characteristics does Oklahoma share with states like New Mexico and Arizona? The only Southwestern state that Oklahoma shares anything in common with is Texas, which can also be lumped with the Southeast. Oklahoma has more in common with Georgia and Alabama than it does Arizona.

As far as religious heritage, its important to say Southern Baptist and not Christian. The Great Plains (Kansas and northward) are deeply religious but more Methodist and the Southwest has deep Catholic roots. Oklahoma is predominantly Southern Baptist in almost every county, just like Mississippi and Alabama. Politically there is a similar distinction. Western Republicanism is more libertarian leaning while Oklahoma's conservatism is very focused on social issues just like the Deep South.

The only place that may be genuinely Southwestern is the panhandle. The rest of the state is unmistakable as anything but Southern.

[Zuplar]

This is from last year, but relevant:

South by Midwest: Or, Where is Oklahoma? | This Land Press

This is the exact article I was thinking of. That being said I consider Oklahoma the south but I can see where you could make the argument for the Midwest in the northern part of the state.

[RadicalModerate]

It is no accident that Oklahoma has more miles of The Original Mother Road (Route 66) in place and drivable than any other state. However, if you want to catch a glimpse of the REAL Oklahoma, drive Highway 3 all the way from border to border.

[Snowman]

I liked this description from the article, that is what I am going with: "Upper central mid south west"

[KenRagsdale]

Perhaps this will clear things up a bit.

"Settlement patterns are determined by many factors. Geography, land policy, sociological circumstances, economics, ethnicity, even religion, readily come to mind. In all of these areas but religion (Oklahoma is overwhelmingly composed of "Bible Belt" churches), Oklahoma is a border region, neither North nor South, East nor West, neither all humid nor all arid, but rather like an old-fashioned quilt, made of many pieces, some complementary and some contrasting."

This link expands on the thesis:

SETTLEMENT PATTERNS

[OKVision4U]

KenR, that is one of my favorite sites on Oklahoma. Yes, look at the patterns and you will see the Southern influx of people and culture. The Southern Baptist Church is the predominate belief that was brought with them. The eastern half of Oklahoma was settled from Tulsa / Shawnee / Pauls Valley / Norman / Ardmore by this group. ..thus our Southern drawl.

[Urbanized]

No way do I think Oklahoma is a full on southern state either. As an African American myself, I've been to Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee and Oklahoma is not in the same ballpark. Okies are GREAT compared to those states especially when it comes to race relations and southern pride. Not to say Oklahoma doesn't have some issues with race, but nothing as deep rooted as you get it the "deep south" and you definitely don't see confederate flags here hanging everywhere like you do in those states. Don't want to get all "race card" on this issue, but that's definitely why I feel Oklahoma has more Southwest culture feel, than a true Southern feel.

I'm glad to hear that from someone in a position to know. I've always believed it to be the case, but it's not really possible for me to have an honest read on it. I know prejudices still exist here (and just about everywhere, really), but in my experience in true "southern" places I've visited racial tension seems very close to the surface. The worst was probably Memphis, where it seemed so thick it felt like you could cut it with a knife. I've almost never felt that type of thing here. It's why the Charles Barkley comments of a few years ago felt so unjust and off-base.

Also - and maybe related - when visiting "the South" I've always felt "Southern Hospitality" was overrated. It often feels forced, contrived, or missing altogether, whereas Okies just seem genuinely friendly and accepting of all. Maybe it's just bias on my part, but I have always felt we were much more welcoming and less judgmental than southerners.

That said, a lot of it goes out the window in Little Dixie.

[okcpulse]

I define states by their history. Oklahoma is not a southern state in that it was never a part of the Confederacy. Indeed, the state didn't exist until 42 years after the end of the Civil War, but it existed as a territory. Even after subsequent land runs in 1889 and 1890s, it was still a territory until statehood in 1907. Oklahoma was heavily settled by Europeans looking for farmland, northerners who were looking for cheaper farmland (my ancestors were among those from Minnesota and Nebraska who came to Oklahoma in 1892) and northeastern industrial tycoons who came for oil. Oklahoma was flooded by southerners in the 1920s who were fed up with an impoverished deep south looking for opportunities on tenement farms, mines and in oil fields.

Historically, Oklahoma is not southern. Present day, Oklahoma reflects southern political and religious leanings, but after my recent visits to Tennessee, Alabama and Mississippi, Oklahoma is far from southern culturally. There is a resemblance, but Oklahoma oozes a style all its own. In order to understand Oklahoma's true story, you must look beyond the news and delve into its eclectically odd but intriguing cultural qualities and western charm. To me, it doesn't get any better than that.

[bchris02]

I define states by their history. Oklahoma is not a southern state in that it was never a part of the Confederacy. Indeed, the state didn't exist until 42 years after the end of the Civil War, but it existed as a territory. Even after subsequent land runs in 1889 and 1890s, it was still a territory until statehood in 1907. Oklahoma was heavily settled by Europeans looking for farmland, northerners who were looking for cheaper farmland (my ancestors were among those from Minnesota and Nebraska who came to Oklahoma in 1892) and northeastern industrial tycoons who came for oil. Oklahoma was flooded by southerners in the 1920s who were fed up with an impoverished deep south looking for opportunities on tenement farms, mines and in oil fields.

Historically, Oklahoma is not southern. Present day, Oklahoma reflects southern political and religious leanings, but after my recent visits to Tennessee, Alabama and Mississippi, Oklahoma is far from southern culturally. There is a resemblance, but Oklahoma oozes a style all its own. In order to understand Oklahoma's true story, you must look beyond the news and delve into its eclectically odd but intriguing cultural qualities.

Oklahoma wasn't part of the Confederacy, but if it would have been a state during the Civil War, it would have been a Confederate state. They had slavery in the Indian territory and most of the residents of the territory sympathized with the Confederacy over the Union.

Culturally, what would you say is different about Tennessee, Mississippi, and Alabama from Oklahoma?

[adaniel]

Culturally, what would you say is different about Tennessee, Mississippi, and Alabama from Oklahoma?

A lot, actually.

Oklahoma is a ranching and mining state, and has been heavily influenced by the boom and bust cycle of these. It has created a much more grizzled, salt-of-the-earth populace that is more akin to people found in the Great Plains. That is certainly not to say OK doesn't have hangups with status and class (Tulsa is much more in line with the rest of the south than OK in this regard), but the local culture here is far more laid back.

Most of the South--the Appalachian area notwithstanding--was heavy into plantation agriculture and cash crops like tobacco and cotton. The caste-like plantation system of slaves and white sharecroppers at the bottom, rich landowners at the top, created a very bifurcated society with a defined aristocracy. Even though the growth in manufacturing has created a bit of a middle class now, you can still see just how much emphasis status is in the south. Think, "southern gentlemen," Gone with the Wind, Debutante Balls, etc. Just go to an SEC FB game and see how much everyone is "dressed up" in khakis and button up shirts. You would get laughed out of an OU or OSU game dressed like that.

This is certainly not the only difference I would say. The obvious Indian influence, the VERY different climate and topography, the differing diets (OK cuisine is much more centered on beef), the lack of a maritime culture--all former confederate states except TN have a coast. I would also add there is very little recognition of any sort of historical southern pillars here; I have never seen a "Robert E. Lee" or "Jefferson Davis" anything in OK, and I can count on one hand how many confederate flags I've seen in my 9 years here.

So to make a long story short, IMO there is a definitive southern influence here, and I imagine most people here identify with the south if for nothing else to cut down on a complicated explanation. But there are simply too many nuances here to say they are one in the same. And instead of trying to categorize ourselves, OK should embrace its unique history and culture!

[kevinpate]

growing up, the Oklahoma west of HWY 75 always looked and seemed a fair bit different to me, people and land alike. Then on west of HWY 75, still more so. Don't get back home much anymore, but i think that may still be somewhat true.

[LocoAko]

I also tell people if they think Oklahoma is flat they should try ridding a bicycle across it.

Amen!

[LocoAko]

Anyone who thinks Oklahoma is a "plains state" hasn't been down around Broken Bow or on up to Poteau.

Oklahoma is DEFINITELY a "Plains state". Not the entire state, but I'd consider (roughly) anything west of I-35/44 to be the Great Plains from a geographical perspective. Many "Plains States" aren't entirely within that region. In fact, the "Southern" argument aside, I'd say denoting OK as the "Southern Plains" is perhaps the least controversial geographic label of them all...

[old okie]

Perhaps this will clear things up a bit.

"Settlement patterns are determined by many factors. Geography, land policy, sociological circumstances, economics, ethnicity, even religion, readily come to mind. In all of these areas but religion (Oklahoma is overwhelmingly composed of "Bible Belt" churches), Oklahoma is a border region, neither North nor South, East nor West, neither all humid nor all arid, but rather like an old-fashioned quilt, made of many pieces, some complementary and some contrasting."

This link expands on the thesis:

SETTLEMENT PATTERNS

Yes! Knowing the history of Oklahoma, a person can quickly see that "we" aren't really definable by the standard measures. The fact that the state was actually composed of several areas [Twin Territories, No Man's Land, Old Greer County], had the only land runs in the country [five of them, actually]--which brought in folks from all over, and had a unique combination of homesteaders, wildcatters, cattlemen & cowboys, business developers, and the incredible heritage of the various Native American tribes--which were quite diverse as well, when added to our unique geography--all serve to set Oklahoma apart from any where else in the country.

Oklahoma's fascinating history not only makes for an interesting study, but it also explains the unique characteristics of this state that defy stereotyping.

[NoOkie]

I grew up in the south(Georgia). I've never thought Oklahoma was the south culturally, though eastern Oklahoma has more traits in common with the south than central OK. Adaniel kind of hit it on the head with the cultural differences, though I'd argue that the south hasn't been an agricultural area for a long time perhaps with the exception of Mississippi and East Texas. The change started with reconstruction, and kind of came to fruition after WWII. The area of Georgia where my grandfather grew up(Near FDR's Little White House) is nothing but farm land in pictures from his era. These days, it's nothing but pine timber land.

The south is an industrial area now, just not densely packed like the rust belt. Textile mills shut down and gave way to the auto industry. My home town used to be full of Callaway and Milliken textile mills. Now there's just a Kia factory and parts supplies. I think the shift to blue collar industrial work has allowed that bifurcation of society to stay in place, though fuzzed and blurred somewhat.

If you're going to go with "which side of the civil war were you on" as a determination, I'd argue that Oklahoma is neither north nor south, but occupies the same strange category as Missouri-mostly existing in a State of confusion. Missouri sent troops to both sides, though ultimately leaned more northern in its sensibilities. The Indian tribes in Oklahoma were split, with only the 5 Civilized Tribes siding with the confederacy. Both the Battle of Round Mountain and the Battle of Honey Creek had tribal units on both side.

This got rather long, but basically my take on this as a southerner is thus: Central and Western Oklahoma really feel like Texas culturally(Yes, Texas was part of the Confederacy. But it is culturally distinct from the rest of the south because, hey, it's Texas!). Eastern Oklahoma seems to exist in a state more like Arkansas-a cultural plains/south transition zone.

[PWitty]

Geographically, Oklahoma is part of the plains. Most publications refer from Texas all the way up to the Dakotas to be the plains states. If you don't want to call it that, then it is part of the south central US along with Texas and Arkansas. I don't understand why so many others want so badly to say OK is a true southern state. Besides Baptist being the predominant religion, I don't see any other similarities. And I've said it before but I’m from Kansas, and Oklahoma feels almost exactly like Kansas to me. Besides their differences in religion, I can't name anything major that varies between the two. I don't know what the other people are referring to when they say OK is nothing like Kansas.

True southern states share a bond from the days of the Confederacy, and trying to bring up OK's involvement in that only further solidifies how distant they are from the true south.

[RadicalModerate]

This is from last year, but relevant:

South by Midwest: Or, Where is Oklahoma? | This Land Press

Thank you for sharing that link. I accidentally caught an audio episode of the program on a local public radio station, some time ago, and it reminded me what an interesting program/publication it was. Here is a link to one part of the show that played the first and only time I encountered it on the airwaves:

Imaginary Oklahoma: ?Streetlamps? by Alan Heathcock | This Land Press

You have the choice of listening to the segment or reading it.

[Mississippi Blues]

Also - and maybe related - when visiting "the South" I've always felt "Southern Hospitality" was overrated. It often feels forced, contrived, or missing altogether, whereas Okies just seem genuinely friendly and accepting of all. Maybe it's just bias on my part, but I have always felt we were much more welcoming and less judgmental than southerners.

Like I said before, I've been all over Mississippi & honestly, to me, they both feel quite similar in regards to hospitality. In some cases, I've found Mississippian's to be more hospitable than Okies, but that's not to say the Oklahoma people aren't nice or welcoming. The people in Mississippi are also easier to talk to, but that's probably more of a personal thing since 95% of my family lives in Mississippi & I can relate to Mississippians more so than Oklahomans.

As surprising as it may sound, I've found that same hospitality in Atlanta that I'm talking about experiencing in Mississippi. Yeah, Atlanta is a huge, fast-paced city, but I've come across people that will just sit there & talk to you & 15 minutes later you've learned the life of someone you could've cared less about 20 minutes ago until you started talking. That doesn't go to say that Atlantan's are easy going, chill people because a lot of them aren't due to the busy schedule's of many that are in & out of places before you realize they're there, but the ones that aren't on a "leave DeKalb County & be on the other side of Fulton County in 10 minutes" type of schedule are very relaxed & will sit there & for however long you're able to talk y'all are just sitting there talking & being friendly.

I'm not discrediting Oklahoma & it's hospitality/niceness, it's asinine to say it doesn't exist or is on a much smaller scale than Mississippi or Georgia. Hospitality is alive & well in all those places, I'm just giving an example that I've found the southern hospitality to be real. If you compare the south to the northeast or some of the west coast, you'll understand where the whole "Southern Hospitality" comes from. It isn't really fair to compare the southern hospitality notion with a place that is also known for its hospitality (Oklahoma).

[Zuplar]

Geographically, Oklahoma is part of the plains. Most publications refer from Texas all the way up to the Dakotas to be the plains states. If you don't want to call it that, then it is part of the south central US along with Texas and Arkansas. I don't understand why so many others want so badly to say OK is a true southern state. Besides Baptist being the predominant religion, I don't see any other similarities. And I've said it before but I’m from Kansas, and Oklahoma feels almost exactly like Kansas to me. Besides their differences in religion, I can't name anything major that varies between the two. I don't know what the other people are referring to when they say OK is nothing like Kansas.

True southern states share a bond from the days of the Confederacy, and trying to bring up OK's involvement in that only further solidifies how distant they are from the true south.

There seems to be a lot of dislike for Kansas here. Most think of it as flat and boring, with nothing to do. I think most like to believe Oklahoma has more to offer. I see some similarities of the states especially the Northern part, but head southeast and you start to see major differences. Like many have said the reason why Oklahoma has an identity crisis is because it is at the crossroads of different regions. Nothing wrong with that IMO.