Trooper Brian Orr (OU Tackle Trooper) Should Be Arrested

[SoonerDave]

The thing being overlooked here is that stadium incidents like this - where some joker runs on the field, drunk or not - are fairly routine, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that there are probably fairly standardized security procedures in place for them. And I think it is very likely the presumption is that such individuals are, in fact, drunk, high, or some combination of both, and thus you cannot make assumptions about their physical or mental state. To presume they should have just said, "Come here, buddy" infers a coherent, rational state. I don't think you can make that assumption. Absent that, filled with a stadium of 85K people they'll evacuate for the sake of a lightning bolt six miles away, taking down a goon like this is entirely acceptable. The first, most important option is to get the offender neutralized.

I think if you saw the same or similar circumstances in any other major stadium venue, you'd have seen very nearly the same response.

Police brutality? Give me a physical break. If the guy was really stone-cold sober, he had to know something like that was in the offing. If he were under some sort of influence, he had to be taken out.

[Bellaboo]

Also, the clown being tackled was not a little man.... this might have had an impact on the troopers action. If it'd been some 110 pound woman doing a little dance, i'm sure it'd been handled in a different manner.

[ou48A]

Also, the clown being tackled was not a little man.... this might have had an impact on the troopers action. If it'd been some 110 pound woman doing a little dance, i'm sure it'd been handled in a different manner.

That point is a very good point and I think its probably why the trooper launched him self. He wasn't running very fast.

The hit looked worse than it really was only because the hit was delivered when the guy was jumping up in the air and was off his feet.. If you actually ever played competitive tackle football as I have you may have experienced this. It hurts worse if your feet are planted in the ground.

[Midtowner]

It was about 6 years ago or so when the student from Colorado Springs tried to enter the stadium with a bomb in his backpack. We all know what happened later that evening during the game. I don't think they (security) have this type of no nonsense behavior without reason.

Was he tackled a little hard ?, yep. Would he have been if he'd stayed in the stands ? Nope.

Good God.

No thanks if you're asking that we all live in a world where it's okay for law enforcement to presume you're wearing a bomb. Rationally, such an assumption is idiotic. If he wanted to kill the most people, why would he have run out to the emptiest part of the stadium (the field)... and man, way to stay in character! Jumping up and down making OU signs with your hands? THE PERFECT TRAP! In such a world, deadly force would almost always be permissible to protect public and officer safety.

There's no excuse for what Orr did. Maybe he's not criminally liable, but if there were any injuries to the young man, Orr ought to be civilly liable, and maybe the University as well. There's no call for that.

Police officers are expected to observe a continuum of force where verbal commands come first unless there's some reasonable reason why verbal commands might endanger public and officer safety. Here, I don't reasonably see any excuse why verbal commands couldn't have worked. Some little men like to feel all powerful when they see someone suffer dire consequences for stepping outside the bounds of decency and will cheer something like this on, but at the end of the day, police officers are expected to observe certain behavioral standards and I don't think that happened here.

[sroberts24]

Don't put yourself in a situation where you might be "blindsided" and you wont be. I can not believe people actually think the Trooper was in the wrong, I'm actually disgusted by it. These people, my wife included, risk their lives every day dealing with the scum of the earth so you do have to. The guy came out of the stands from my section, he didn't look wasted, he looked like a dumb ass trying to get some attention. Very disappointed you think an officer enforcing the law should be charged for enforcing the law whatever means that are necessary to do so. You think if he would have just walked up tapped him on the shoulder and asked him to leave the guy would have? Yeah right, an officer must control the situation immediately under any circumstance as you don't know anything about that person or what they are thinking or going to do. Detain him and figure out the rest after they are restrained. Some people literally disgust me, even thinking he should be charged for assault makes me sick. Don't break the law and you wont get tackled!!!!!!!

[RadicalModerate]

Lawsuit in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1

[ou48A]

Good God.

No thanks if you're asking that we all live in a world where it's okay for law enforcement to presume you're wearing a bomb. Rationally, such an assumption is idiotic. If he wanted to kill the most people, why would he have run out to the emptiest part of the stadium (the field)... and man, way to stay in character! Jumping up and down making OU signs with your hands? THE PERFECT TRAP! In such a world, deadly force would almost always be permissible to protect public and officer safety.

There's no excuse for what Orr did. Maybe he's not criminally liable, but if there were any injuries to the young man, Orr ought to be civilly liable, and maybe the University as well. There's no call for that.

Police officers are expected to observe a continuum of force where verbal commands come first unless there's some reasonable reason why verbal commands might endanger public and officer safety. Here, I don't reasonably see any excuse why verbal commands couldn't have worked. Some little men like to feel all powerful when they see someone suffer dire consequences for stepping outside the bounds of decency and will cheer something like this on, but at the end of the day, police officers are expected to observe certain behavioral standards and I don't think that happened here.

It was loud and it appeared that he was given verbal commands by other officers. Which he did not respond to.

As an attorney you should know that thousand if not more court cases have made rulings that give the trooper the power to do exactly what he did. The OHP policies are reviewed by appropriate officials. The OHP said that it trooper acted appropriately.
Its deranged to even think that this could have been handled any better...
There is literately nothing here for reasonable people to complain about!

[catch22]

Ok. So let's assume he had a bomb. Tackling him could potentially set off the bomb. Also, as pointed out, someone with a bomb isn't going to detonate one in the least populated area of the stadium. That would be like a terrorist setting off a bomb in an open field next to a runway. Might damage a few taxiway lights and scare a few birds.

If the guy was wearing a hoodie, backpack, and had a cell phone in his hand. A reasonable assumption would be he is absolutely up to no good.

A fat ass, drunk, running onto the field is pretty much zero threat to anybody.

[ou48A]

Ok. So let's assume he had a bomb. Tackling him could potentially set off the bomb. Also, as pointed out, someone with a bomb isn't going to detonate one in the least populated area of the stadium. That would be like a terrorist setting off a bomb in an open field next to a runway. Might damage a few taxiway lights and scare a few birds.

If the guy was wearing a hoodie, backpack, and had a cell phone in his hand. A reasonable assumption would be he is absolutely up to no good.

A fat ass, drunk, running onto the field is pretty much zero threat to anybody.

As the police moved in on him they could tell he didn't have a bomb of any great size. But the police still must assume that a guy like this could have a weapon, like a gun tucked away in his pants. Its in their training and they have been told to do so by higher authority.

By letting the Trooper tackle him from behind it reduced the possibility of the guy being able to produce a weapon... They must reduce the odds of violence by doing exactly what they did. Gun fire by anyone inside the stadium puts a great number of people at risk. They have a greater right to stay safe than the nut job on the field.

What shocking is how so few people here seem to understand even basic common sense.

[catch22]

^



Yes, looks like he is about to draw a gun and open fire on everybody. while he flails his arms up in the air and is chanting Boomer Sooner. Get a grip.

[ou48A]

^



Yes, looks like he is about to draw a gun and open fire on everybody. while he flails his arms up in the air and is chanting Boomer Sooner. Get a grip.

Your not living in a world of reality.... If he had a gun he probably wasn't going to pull it out until he saw the police moving in on him.., That's why the other officers did not rush him...and also to give the trooper a chance to tackle him...

Unlike some others, I was at the game and watched this though my binoculars and it was on my end of the stadium.

[catch22]

So, what would excessive force in this situation be? If the ultimate goal is to diffuse the situation, what is the line that you would define as being excessive force?

[kevinpate]

Clips here are the first I've seen of it. I watched a couple of clips a few times. Thought I'd be outraged. Nope.

Some folks disagree, including folks whose opinions I frequently respect. Happens from time to time.

Had the trooper driven through the man straight on into the ground, I might feel differently about it.

This was not that, and as much as I am not a fan of instant replay, after further review, the ruling on the field is upheld.

[ou48A]

So, what would excessive force in this situation be? If the ultimate goal is to diffuse the situation, what is the line that you would define as being excessive force?

I will be very happy to live under the rule of law and not under mob rule like so many here seem to want.
I will live with whatever the many courts cases have ruled as excessive force and where that line is.
Very clearly excessive force did not happen in this case.

[catch22]

What if the guy had been holding a Bible in his hands? All of the conservatives in the state would have been OUTRAGED.

[Midtowner]

It was loud and it appeared that he was given verbal commands by other officers. Which he did not respond to.

As an attorney you should know that thousand if not more court cases have made rulings that give the trooper the power to do exactly what he did. The OHP policies are reviewed by appropriate officials. The OHP said that it trooper acted appropriately.
Its deranged to even think that this could have been handled any better...
There is literately nothing here for reasonable people to complain about!

This is the same OHP who has recently blessed the behavior of one Trooper Martin, who on numerous occasions has used excessive force.

OHP Trooper Accused Of Excessive Force - FOX23 News

Oklahoma Highway Patrol Trooper Daniel Martin reinstated after investigation of excessive force complaint. Martin previously scuffled with paramedic. Video released of most recent incident. | STATter911.com

Sorry, but I don't find the OHP's finding that the level of force being appropriate to be anything more than CYA on their part.

[jerrywall]

What if the guy had been holding a Bible in his hands? All of the conservatives in the state would have been OUTRAGED.

Nice straw man.

I'm amazed at all the Monday morning QBs. If the officer had pulled a gun and shot the guy, I'd be right with you. If the goal is to restrain, constrain, and restrict the ability of the guy to harm anyone in the quickest amount of time possible, with the least amount of damage, I'd say mission accomplished. Poor drunk loser has some bruises. Boo-hoo.

[RadicalModerate]

So, what would excessive force in this situation be? If the ultimate goal is to diffuse the situation, what is the line that you would define as being excessive force?

Oh . . . I dunno . . . Maybe something along these lines?

[tomokc]

Interesting discussion, but it would be more valuable with the perspective of law enforcement leadership which establishes criteria for circumstances such as this. My $0.02:

It isn't "excessive force" because this has been a typical response for years, giving enough time for a lawsuit to wend its way through the courts to a verdict against the law enforcement agency and result in a policy change. That hasn't happened to my knowledge. Nor are athletes being charged or sued when they do this James Harrison Sacks Browns Fan - YouTube , or team employees when they do this Drunk Red Sox fan gets absolutely leveled, 5/2/11 - YouTube

I believe that the response is appropriate to the initial action: People run onto an athletic field in front of thousands of spectators for the disruptive shock value and attention, knowing that they are guaranteed to be apprehended. Being forcibly and publicly taken out by a LEO, athlete or employee adds a little sting and humiliation to the conclusion of this kind of stunt, and dissuades others.

[RadicalModerate]

What if the guy had been holding a Bible in his hands? All of the conservatives in the state would have been OUTRAGED.

Or, god forbid, a KORAN????? (or a cartoon of Mohammed?)

Frankly, in the future, I hope they choose to use T.A.S.E.R. s . . .
It would probably provide more entertainment value.

[Midtowner]

It was loud and it appeared that he was given verbal commands by other officers.

Oh, you could tell that from the video, could you?

As an attorney you should know that thousand if not more court cases have made rulings that give the trooper the power to do exactly what he did.

And also thousands where the police officer ended up with a judgment against him and his employer for a civil rights violation or for battery.

The OHP policies are reviewed by appropriate officials. The OHP said that it trooper acted appropriately.

That's almost LOL funny considering the sort of crap OHP has blessed in the past. Here's a little update on the Daniel Martin story as it's been moving through the courts:

Appellate court rules trooper excessive force lawsuit should move forward | News OK

It doesn't appear the 10th Circuit necessarily agrees with the OHP's belief system regarding excessive force.

[catch22]

Nice straw man.

I'm amazed at all the Monday morning QBs. If the officer had pulled a gun and shot the guy, I'd be right with you. If the goal is to restrain, constrain, and restrict the ability of the guy to harm anyone in the quickest amount of time possible, with the least amount of damage, I'd say mission accomplished. Poor drunk loser has some bruises. Boo-hoo.

What if the guy had received a concussion, a broken bone, or possibly some other more serious injury as a result of the officer's excessive use of force for the situation?

The officer saw this as a chance to remember his time as a football player and make a tackle on the big stage once again. Immature move by both the fan and the officer.

Scenarios:

1) if he were detonating a bomb, he would have had bulkier clothes. He would have stayed in the stands or near an exit.

2) if he were planning on shooting people, he would have done it in the stands. Not 50 yards away from everyone.

3) if he were planning on committing suicide, he would have ran out on to the middle of the field waving a gun so the officers would shoot him right away, or he would have done it very quickly himself.

In all of those situations the officers would be reactionary and not proactive. If you are planning on committing harm, you don't attract attention to yourself.

There is no justifiable reason to tackle him at the force they did. There is zero reason for that given the circumstances.

[Midtowner]

Interesting discussion, but it would be more valuable with the perspective of law enforcement leadership which establishes criteria for circumstances such as this. My $0.02:

It isn't "excessive force" because this has been a typical response for years, giving enough time for a lawsuit to wend its way through the courts to a verdict against the law enforcement agency and result in a policy change. That hasn't happened to my knowledge. Nor are athletes being charged or sued when they do this James Harrison Sacks Browns Fan - YouTube , or team employees when they do this Drunk Red Sox fan gets absolutely leveled, 5/2/11 - YouTube

I believe that the response is appropriate to the initial action: People run onto an athletic field in front of thousands of spectators for the disruptive shock value and attention, knowing that they are guaranteed to be apprehended. Being forcibly and publicly taken out by a LEO, athlete or employee adds a little sting and humiliation to the conclusion of this kind of stunt, and dissuades others.

Oh I know.. we'd probably have fewer speeders if police officers were allowed to taser all speeders, just 'cuz. The whole "pour encourager les autres" motif doesn't jibe with the American criminal justice model. You get due process. The gentleman running out onto the field will get his due process--an opportunity for a trial and then some form of punishment. Being forcibly apprehended is never part of the punishment. It should only happen if the arrestee resists.

[Stew]

I totally agree with the original post.

[RadicalModerate]

If you watch the video, again, you will see that one of the officials (perhaps the Back Judge?) fingered the clown as being in violation of the rules thereby paving the way for the Trooper to respond in an efficient and effective manner.