Random musings about the failure of cafeterias...

[Pete]

^

I ate a Picadilly's quite a bit in the early 80's because I worked at the mall while in college.

[tuck]

[99% of the food served in all these long-closed restaurants we all pine for would never stand up to today's offerings. A pie here or there, excepted. [/QUOTE]

I agree with you Pete. So much has changed since the 80's with the Luby's BOOM, especially in Texas, where I grew going there every Wednesday at 4:15 with my grandparents. People now have higher standards on quality and service. They don't want food that has been sitting under a heat lamp for hours, they want it prepared especially for them. Once again, the Food Network and popularity of cooking has something to do with the general public's wants and needs. These cafeterias usually occupied a ton of square footage with enormous kitchens...the economics no longer worked. Maybe they will come back in the near future with some modern tweaks!

[rlewis]

The company that I work for used to run a buffet, and we closed it down due to the fact that it became a never-ending sea of red ink. Our customers tended to over-eat or over-portion on the most expensive items in the buffet (these items are known as "proteins"), and our plate costs steadily grew each and every year. The amount of waste generated by the uneaten food every day was horrendous. We tried all sorts of subtle changes such as using smaller plates, reducing the protein selection, changing the layout of various items, using larger drinking cups (to fill people up with soda faster), etc., and none of it worked. It's simply a low margin business that is completely dependent on volume. If the volume drops, not only do you lose money but then the quality of the food suffers and then the quality issues drive even more losses down the line.

Tuck is right about changing trends--after we changed the concept to an a la carte one, hardly anyone complained and our business didn't even lose a step.

[Jim Kyle]

Joe Kelly was a pretty big name in the restaurant business in that time frame, because I'm reasonably sure they also ran a bunch of Chi Chi's Mexican Restaurants - one on I-240 where yours truly worked as a busboy for a time. That was back before county-option liquor by the drink had been approved, but the place had an open bar and would periodically get raided by ABLE. The restaurant was busy all the time, too - we had two-hour-plus waits for tables back at the height of ChiChi's popularity. Things started to fade, as I recall, and rumors of unwise financial dealings began circulating around Joe Kelly, and eventually the whole thing went bankrupt. Hope I'm not getting the names confused on Joe Kelly, but don't think I am.

Kelly was, indeed, a rather big name in that time frame. I remember when he built the little place on the north side of 240, originally as a "McCracken's Mill" I believe. A son of a close friend and bowling partner was the first manager of it, so my wife and I were invited to the pre-opening party "on the house" and it was great.

That same son later helped open the very first TGIF in OKC, in the building near NW Hiway and Rockwell that's now occupied by Fazoli's.

After the initial bankruptcy of Kelly's enterprises, he opened a small place called Gator's on Country Club Drive, just east of May and slightly south of Grand. It didn't last long, but all of us at "Automation Resources Inc." ate there often since our own offices were less than half a block away...

[boscorama]

When I was young, my family would go to Adairs Cafeteria on Lincoln Blvd. I always got fried chicken and always had dessert, meringue pie. Umm umm umm!

[rezman]

...as for olive garden, the first olive garden in the city opened in late 1987 at 6628 nw expressway which was the former site of a duff's. the second in the city opened in the walnut square shopping center sometime in 1989 in the former joe kelley's spot. -M

I remember Duff's on the south side of NW Hwy , east of Rockwell. It had the carousel that had the food on it and it came out from behing the wall to the left and you could stand there and make your selections as the food went by. It went back into to wall on the right where it was restocked out of view.

We used to kid my foreman at the time, who was a very large man, that he would just grab a fork and a chair and sit down in front of the carousel and eat what he wanted as the food went by.

[Firefly831]

I have a fond memory of The Choice on 240. It has absolutely nothing to do with the taste of the food because i cant imagine I was more the 7 or 8 at the time but one if not several of the buffet stations there revolved and I distinctly remember thinking that was the best thing Id ever seen at the time.

[Mel]

Growing up a Navy brat I have eaten at cafeterias from one coast to the other. When you're young and hungry dang near everything tastes good. The best cafeteria style meal, for me, was Wednesday night Church supper. You get a bunch of Southern Baptist Women together and have them bring their signature dish. If heaven has a buffet that's what it is.

[bluedogok]

Luby's closed 25 locations in 2009, in fact there are two in Oklahoma (OKC/Tulsa) and one in Arkansas (Little Rock), the rest are all in Texas and are managed by the Pappas group out of Houston as a separate group. They also bought Fuddrucker's out of bankruptcy in 2010.

[progressiveboy]

Although it closed due to new buyers for Founders Tower, I always enjoyed Queen Ann"s Cafeteria. Great food and the quality was great. I also enjoyed Lady Classen which was on about 71st and May Avenue. I hear the Boulevard Cafeteria in Midtown is still open. Their food was good as well.

[Pete]

The company that I work for used to run a buffet, and we closed it down due to the fact that it became a never-ending sea of red ink. Our customers tended to over-eat or over-portion on the most expensive items in the buffet (these items are known as "proteins"), and our plate costs steadily grew each and every year. The amount of waste generated by the uneaten food every day was horrendous. We tried all sorts of subtle changes such as using smaller plates, reducing the protein selection, changing the layout of various items, using larger drinking cups (to fill people up with soda faster), etc., and none of it worked. It's simply a low margin business that is completely dependent on volume. If the volume drops, not only do you lose money but then the quality of the food suffers and then the quality issues drive even more losses down the line.

Tuck is right about changing trends--after we changed the concept to an a la carte one, hardly anyone complained and our business didn't even lose a step.

Thanks for sharing this. I know you work for a very high-profile operation, so your perspective is particularly valuable.


I had wondered about waste and your post confirms that it is very high, which is bad on many levels.

[SoonerDave]

As sentimental as I am -- and I'm probably more so than anyone -- I also believe that things now are almost always way better than the "old days".

...snip...

99% of the food served ....in all these long-closed restaurants we all pine for would never stand up to today's offerings. A pie here or there, excepted.

Oh, yeah, plenty of nostalgic glasses here....having said that...

Hmmmm....99%? I dunno about that. I mean, let's face it, Applebee's (or Chilis) putting a chicken breast over beans and rice or building a hamburger aren't exactly examples of culinary brain surgery. Dodson's, in its day, had breaded veal cutlets, beef stroganoff, made-from-scratch yeast dinner rolls, and more vegetables than you could shake a stick at - and ones that were usually properly cooked. That's something the chains are only now getting slightly better at: their "vegetable medleys" accompanying most entrees are still either undercooked or cooked to mush. Don't get me wrong - I realize that the old cafeterias had their practical constraints by the nature of their format, nothing cooked to order, but I'm not entirely sure I'm ready to concede the 99% factor

All I was offering in the discussion was that, given every kind and variety of slop people will eat these days, I'm just surprised that some contemporary take on the old cafeteria format hasn't found its niche in the market. And perhaps the bulk-food "buffets" are precisely that.

A quiet place to get a varied meal with most things prepared in-house was just taken for granted back in the day.

I remember eating at Picadilly's in Crossroads Mall

You know, I grew up not ten minutes away from CM, and I don't know that we ever ate there - or if we did, it was just once or twice, and promptly forgotten. Couldn't tell you why. It always smelled good and seemed nice, but just never hit our list, as it were - although when I was a (little) kid, eating out was a pretty big deal, and a special treat was to go to the Glen's HikRy Inn Sunday Smorgasbord. Now *that* was a great treat...if ya want to go sentimental, Glen's is a great place to start

[traxx]

I think a lot of the appeal of cafeterias on this thread has to do with nostalgia.

Growing up, I hated when we went to a cafeteria. I always thought the food tasted as bland as the atmosphere looked in those places. I think that has a lot to do with why cafeterias have gone away. People like a place with atmosphere and a smaller menu done well. Plus the people who liked cafeterias has slowly gone away. That customer base is very few and far between these days.

[rezman]

when I was a (little) kid, eating out was a pretty big deal, and a special treat was to go to the Glen's HikRy Inn Sunday Smorgasbord. Now *that* was a great treat...if ya want to go sentimental, Glen's is a great place to start

Glenn's was a great place. And, if we didn't go there, another treat was a couple miles west to Nicolosi's. .. Loved that place too.

[rezman]

And while your talking about vegetables. Chilli's has had "seasonal vegetables" on their menu. I don't care what time of year you go in there and order them, it's always broccoli.

[Garin]

Dodson's and the Queen Ann where the best

[ctchandler]

Rezman,
And don't forget J&R Chicken Ranch! Wasn't it West of Nicolosi's?
C. T.

Glenn's was a great place. And, if we didn't go there, another treat was a couple miles west to Nicolosi's. .. Loved that place too.

[Jim Kyle]

And nobody's yet mentioned Glen's Hikry Pit, which was across 10th from the Hikry Inn itself and served nothing but BBQ. So long as the Glen Eaves family ran it, it had the best BBQ to be found in NW OKC.

Back in the late 50s, whenever we could find $10 that didn't have to pay a bill, we'd head for the Hikry Inn to get a pair of the $3.95 sirloins with all the trimmings. And whenever Wally Brown, at the big organ in the back room, saw us come in, he'd segue into "Tico Tico" especially for us. Wally's a long-time ham radio friend...

[SoonerDave]

The company that I work for used to run a buffet, and we closed it down due to the fact that it became a never-ending sea of red ink. Our customers tended to over-eat or over-portion on the most expensive items in the buffet (these items are known as "proteins"), and our plate costs steadily grew each and every year. The amount of waste generated by the uneaten food every day was horrendous. We tried all sorts of subtle changes such as using smaller plates, reducing the protein selection, changing the layout of various items, using larger drinking cups (to fill people up with soda faster), etc., and none of it worked. It's simply a low margin business that is completely dependent on volume. If the volume drops, not only do you lose money but then the quality of the food suffers and then the quality issues drive even more losses down the line.

Tuck is right about changing trends--after we changed the concept to an a la carte one, hardly anyone complained and our business didn't even lose a step.

I think what you just described here is virtually a mirror image of what HomeTown Buffet became. Their prices seemed to go up on a nearly biweekly basis, up to the point where we all just started looking at each other and saying, "you know, the prices are just too high." And we stopped going - at least nowhere near as frequently as we once did, and one day, we saw the place was closed.

Sounds to me like they experienced precisely what you described - ever escalating plate costs that they just couldn't recover.

One thing I've never understood is breakfast buffets, especially ones with scrambled eggs. I mean, yuck. Under any kind of heat, they get rubbery and nasty in a hurry, pancakes get dried out and nasty....just....ugh. I remember Shoney's used to have a breakfast buffet here years ago, and I tried it once en route to work......ugh.

[kevinpate]

All these musings remind me of the little cafe at Wister Lake, a few miles away from Poteau. Sunday lunches were either Mama's chicken, or her pot roast or a drive over to the cafe just above Lake Wister. Mighty tasty food to be had on Sundays where I grew up.

The cafe had a small handwritten sign that was simply Please take what you want. Please eat what you take.

Nooooooooooo problem.
I don't know if they ever charged Pops extra when we pulled up with him, Mama and four hollow legged boys, but they probably shoulda.

[bluedogok]

Rezman,
And don't forget J&R Chicken Ranch! Wasn't it West of Nicolosi's?
C. T.

Yes it was. The last thing in there that I remember was a Senior Nutrition Center.

[rezman]

Rezman,
And don't forget J&R Chicken Ranch! Wasn't it West of Nicolosi's?
C. T.

Yes, If I remember correctly, it was between Nicolosi's and what was then Will Rogers Bank. Cattycorner from Nix lumber Co. .... which by the way, is still hanging on after all these years.

[RadicalModerate]

All these musings remind me of the little cafe at Wister Lake, a few miles away from Poteau. Sunday lunches were either Mama's chicken, or her pot roast or a drive over to the cafe just above Lake Wister. Mighty tasty food to be had on Sundays where I grew up.

The cafe had a small handwritten sign that was simply Please take what you want. Please eat what you take.

Nooooooooooo problem.
I don't know if they ever charged Pops extra when we pulled up with him, Mama and four hollow legged boys, but they probably shoulda.

Did you grow up in Poteau? We stayed the night there, back in August, and I just fell in love with the place. We ate at an establishment that the desk clerk at the hotel recommended: Warehouse Willy's (VERY tasty and interesting experience, in an old building, in the middle of the old downtown area). It was neither a buffet nor a cafeteria, has been there for many years, and seems to be doing very well. I mention that it is neither a buffet nor a cafeteria to give this post some vague thread relevance. (Sure wish that I'd been aware of that road to the top of The Highest Hill in Oklahoma--"Cavanal" or something like that. The summit might be a good location for a scenic cafeteria . . . I say "might" because I haven't actually been there).

When I used to take my students on the occasional field trip, that often involved eating somewhere, we usually went to Hometown Buffet or Golden Corral. I always used to tell them: "Eat as much as you want but don't try to sneak out food for later or leave a bunch of stuff on your plate. I'm telling you this because if you like eating there (and they did like it, very much) and want to continue to have the opportunity to do so in the future that's how you have to play. If you don't, one of two things will happen: we will get barred from ever coming back or the place will go out of business because of greed and waste. I know that you are going to do whatever you choose to do, but I'm just telling you the possible consequences." The little lecture seemed to be fairly effective, at least for my little group. If everyone had thought about stuff like that then Hometown Buffet might still be around.

Catfish Cabin used to have a buffet location in Midwest City. We frequented the place. About that time, I was acquainted with two brothers who were both "big guys" and one night they showed up at Catfish Cabin and started shoveling in the shrimp. I think they ate for about two hours until the owner actually ran them off and forbade their return. I mention that to illustrate the truth of my lecture to my students back in the day. (Catfish Cabin has also gone to The Graveyard of Failed Eateries.)

[kevinpate]

Yes RM, from 60-79, then in and out from 79-86, though mostly in. Even when living in Tahlequah for two years, we were working in Poteau most weekends for an NFP we both cared about. We came to Norman in '86, and for a long time went back 2 or more weekends a month, but slowly became more entrenched out here on the prairie over time.

Willy's is a local favorite to be sure.

[Just the facts]

If you count all the corporate cafeterias I would say the industry is booming. They just only open for lunch now.