CFB Conference Realignment Continues

[venture]

True. I wonder if adding more eastern teams was the plan but somehow it got derailed?

Texas.

Seriously though I feel bad for WVU being out on their own little island. Louisville should have never got away, but they are locked into the ACC now. I think we need to go ahead and pick up Cincinnati. They are about all that is worth anything left in the AAC. Though I think we may need to watch the partnership between the Big 12 and ACC and see how that develops.

As it stands now, the Big 12 is the smallest FBS conference. Aligning with the ACC could prove very valuable for both conferences. You could essentially line up a new super conference of 24 teams. Four divisions of 6 with a built in conference playoff. You could also do this with the SEC as well, but it doesn't seem we are aligning as strongly with them.

Big XII / ACC Divisions

Midwest Division: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Southwest Division: Texas, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Northeast Division: Wake Forest, Duke, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Boston College, Syracuse
Southeast Division: Miami, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, NC State, UNC

This is just a quick alignment by geography (as much as possible), but the Northeast Division (which goes pretty south) seems to be memories of the old Big XII North.

Big XII / SEC Divisions

North Division: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Kentucky, West Virginia
East Division: South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Auburn
West Division: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Texas
South Division: Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Miss State, Ole Miss, Alabama

[ljbab728]

College football: Conference realignment has hit a wall | News OK

[ou48A]

The rumors heating up again.... This time they have the BIG looking at OU & Texas, probably KU and maybe Missouri.
The new Division 4 is going to be a major driving force behind many of the moves that are likely to happen. It will eventually force this issue rather its wanted or not.

[Dubya61]

The rumors heating up again.... This time they have the BIG looking at OU & Texas, probably KU and maybe Missouri.
The new Division 4 is going to be a major driving force behind many of the moves that are likely to happen. It will eventually force this issue rather its wanted or not.

What's your opinion? Will OU move without OSU? Will UT require any block moves? IIRC, when PAC-12/16 moves were considered, several of the Big 12 were in solidarity about a block requirements.

[traxx]

The rumors heating up again.... This time they have the BIG looking at OU & Texas, probably KU and maybe Missouri.
The new Division 4 is going to be a major driving force behind many of the moves that are likely to happen. It will eventually force this issue rather its wanted or not.

Is this just another rumor from coal aggy or is there any real substance to this?

[ou48A]

What's your opinion? Will OU move without OSU?

In a second..... !
especially if OU can go with KU and Texas. You add that to the BIG and that's a very powerful sport conference that will come with great academic benefits...
It's Boren's and many at OU academic dream come true.

[Snowman]

The rumors heating up again.... This time they have the BIG looking at OU & Texas, probably KU and maybe Missouri.
The new Division 4 is going to be a major driving force behind many of the moves that are likely to happen. It will eventually force this issue rather its wanted or not.

This seems really unlikely right now, to get any Big XII teams they pretty much have to do some sort of move so drastic that it breaks up the Big XII completely or it will never work out money wise, with the need to take so many schools why even consider adding Missouri to the mix. This has the feel fanboy of rumors on how to make BIG considered better than like forth in football, this would clearly have then jump the Big XII and who knows maybe even put them above the Pac12 but I would be shocked if there is a way they could position them selfs above the SEC.

[ou48A]

Is this just another rumor from coal aggy or is there any real substance to this?

I have pretty strong feeling that due to the Div 4 possibility that this is a lot more than just the typical Coal Aggie stuff.
We already know from reports months ago that the B1G has already been checking out OU and KU.
JMHO

[ou48A]

Myth of the Big 12's Grant of rights : Outkick The Coverage


Myth of the Big 12's Grant of rights

That a grant of rights prevents conferences from being raided is a myth. The Big 12 is still vulnerable because Texas and Oklahoma are still in play to be gobbled up in conference realignment

[adaniel]

This does not have legs. B1G would not accept OU because it is not an AAU school. The only reason it was not an issue for Nebraska is they lost their AAU status weeks before their move. Had they lost it before they applied to the then Big 10, it would have been an issue.

[ou48A]

This does not have legs. B1G would not accept OU because it is not an AAU school. The only reason it was not an issue for Nebraska is they lost their AAU status weeks before their move. Had they lost it before they applied to the then Big 10, it would have been an issue.

This beyond a shadow of a doubt has legs......

and it's because of the formation of Division 4 which means we are in a totally new era of college sports.
It means things will be changing.
It's fair to say that nobody really yet knows for sure how it will shake out.

[ou48A]

The OU AAU problem is apparently not the big hang up it once was.
The rumors say that most in the B1G now recognize that OU is close enough.... and that with the OU connection to the new GE research center that OU will almost certainly make the AAU with in a decade or so.

Apparently many of the B1G academic types have finally woken up to the importance of big time college sports and know know they can be helped by it. OU has very strong national brand that they know will be a net positive for all.

Also there are strong rumors that Texas has indicated they are interested in the B1G but only if OU goes with them as a package deal. If that's true then adding OU & Texas to the B1G becomes a no brainier for that conference.

The eventually formation of Div. 4 is the key to all this and it's the new factor that hasn't really been a factor until now. It could make the next few weeks interesting because everyone will be playing their cards in this power game. Each university will seek the best possible position going into Div 4. The fall out for the Big 12 teams left behind will also be interesting? Where they land will more less depend on their pecking order.

[SoonerDave]

The part in all this that is being overlooked is that pesky little thing called the grant of rights. To keep the Big 12-2 together, the "grant of rights" was supposed to be the holy grail of commitment glue, meaning that even if OU were to bolt to the Big 10, their rights stay in the Big 12-2. The only way the rights revert is if the conference, itself, breaks up. More broadly, there's no way on earth the Big 10 is going to allow Texas to bring in its Longhorn Network unmodified.

Right or wrong, OU has decided to tether itself to both Texas and Oklahoma State. That's nothing more than a chain of coattails. OU, by every indication, turned down an SEC invite (at least one) because the SEC had no interest in OSU.

What's going to happen? I'm calling bupkiss on ALL of this until I see something happen. Texas will not allow the Big 12-2 to expand back to 12 teams under the current football structure. If all of CFB reorganizes in this new "Division 4" or whatever we want to call it, it makes perfect sense for big name schools to leverage the best possible interest, and in my opinion a midwestern alliance makes much more natural sense geographically than a west-coast alliance. Heck, it even raises the spectre of a renewed OU-Nebraska series.

But, as Jim Lovell said in Apollo 13 regarding their long trip home in their damaged spaceship, "There are 1,000 things that have to happen in order, and we are on step 4." And I'm not even sure we're that far. At the moment, its just rumor. And the very best, lead-pipe-cinch rumors the last time around turned out to be so much hot air.

[ou48A]

The part in all this that is being overlooked is that pesky little thing called the grant of rights. To keep the Big 12-2 together, the "grant of rights" was supposed to be the holy grail of commitment glue, meaning that even if OU were to bolt to the Big 10, their rights stay in the Big 12-2. The only way the rights revert is if the conference, itself, breaks up. More broadly, there's no way on earth the Big 10 is going to allow Texas to bring in its Longhorn Network unmodified.

Right or wrong, OU has decided to tether itself to both Texas and Oklahoma State. That's nothing more than a chain of coattails. OU, by every indication, turned down an SEC invite (at least one) because the SEC had no interest in OSU.

What's going to happen? I'm calling bupkiss on ALL of this until I see something happen. Texas will not allow the Big 12-2 to expand back to 12 teams under the current football structure. If all of CFB reorganizes in this new "Division 4" or whatever we want to call it, it makes perfect sense for big name schools to leverage the best possible interest, and in my opinion a midwestern alliance makes much more natural sense geographically than a west-coast alliance. Heck, it even raises the spectre of a renewed OU-Nebraska series.

But, as Jim Lovell said in Apollo 13 regarding their long trip home in their damaged spaceship, "There are 1,000 things that have to happen in order, and we are on step 4." And I'm not even sure we're that far. At the moment, its just rumor. And the very best, lead-pipe-cinch rumors the last time around turned out to be so much hot air.

Realignment, expansion not out of the question | sports.omaha.com



Published Monday, April 22, 2013 AT 9:03 PM / Updated at 9:40 PM
Realignment, expansion not out of the question

By Lee Barfknecht

Don’t slam the door on future college conference expansion and realignment just yet.

The trendy instant reaction Monday to news that members of the Atlantic Coast Conference agreed to a “grant of rights” clause for its television and media was that it would halt realignment.

By the schools “granting” media rights to the conference for 14 years, the theory is that it would be too costly for a school to change leagues because it wouldn’t have much of value to “carry” to a new league.

Several old friends in the business of college athletics I talked to Monday said they wouldn’t bet their own money on that.

These people — from conference offices and major-college athletic departments — all agreed that any number of lawyers would be delighted to challenge those deals in court.

The ACC, Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac-12 have such deals.


As one buddy with a wicked sense of humor said, “Do you really think Texas would sign up for something it couldn’t get out of?”


As a sidenote, two sources have told The World-Herald that the Big Ten has done prior “homework” on Oklahoma, Kansas and Vanderbilt among other schools who might some day be expansion targets. The Big 12 grant-of-rights deal didn’t stop a look-see for OU and KU.
Besides a legal challenge, the potential future TV money available could still make it profitable for a school to move.

So what do you take from all this? When the most powerful people in college athletics want something, there are ways to do it, regardless of the contracts and paperwork in place.

[ou48A]

Formation of Division 4 is the next game-changer in college football - CBSSports.com

Formation of Division 4 is the next game-changer in college football

[ou48A]

@schadjoe 3m
Oklahoma AD Joe Castiglione on Sirius XM College: I don't believe realignment is over.

[ou48A]

More on division 4

Look for Division 4 to revolutionize college athletics - CBSSports.com

[zookeeper]

More on division 4

Look for Division 4 to revolutionize college athletics - CBSSports.com

That's just sad. So, they're going to decide who the "big football schools" are and create this Division 4 with them. The logic in this is mind numbing. They are basically guaranteeing that the "big football schools" will always be the "big football schools" and lock everybody else out.

I'd like to know why the NCAA has no teeth in keeping these kinds of side deals from ever seeing the light of day without going through them. I thought that's what the NCAA was for.

Sad. The full blown corporatization of bigtime college football. I say strip the school names off, it would just be minor league football, even paying the players.

[SoonerDave]

Its fine that a news source found out that the Big 10 did a "look-see" on OU-KU in spite of the grant of rights, but there were myriad rumors the last time that the Big 10 was looking at more than one permutation of OU, KU, UT, et al in the fray last year.

It's all well and good to say that UT wouldn't sign on to anything they couldn't get out of, and the simplest, shortest path to that end is a shift that would dissolve the conference entirely. Legal challenges imply time, and the question becomes whom would be the ones to challenge? Are we saying School X would challenge School Y's right to grant it's own rights to a third party? Seems like a non-starter to me, eg Texas Tech going to court to force OU to retake its rights grant from the Big 12. Huh??

Or flip it - trash the grant of rights concept as somehow anti-competitive, ala OU-Georgia and their landmark suit that arguably set all this madness in motion three decades ago? Maybe, but you've got a much taller legal hill to climb there - member schools granted their rights voluntarily to a conference entity this time around, whereas the NCAA presumed to own those rights before. To me, that's a huge difference. It's one thing to have the ownership taken away. It's another entirely to say "Kings X," I didn't really mean to voluntarily surrender those rights.

If all this really were to happen, the simplest way out of the entire grant of rights issue is for the "big daddies" of the conference agree to a "dissolution settlement" (essentially a divorce decree) that would, as a practical matter, "buy" the other members' "Yes" votes for conference dissolution. And I suspect that payout (settlement?) would be mammoth.

The other possibility I can foresee, however remote, would be for a merger of conferences such that the grant of rights would, in effect, become a community property issue. The ugly part of that, however, is that "merged" conferences would have no use for the bottom-dwellers, and would probably do everything possible to have them voted out as members in such a merged conference. Who knows.

Its all speculation at this point. Lawyers, somewhere, are drooling. Maybe something really is brewing and will stun all of us in the next few weeks or months. But, like I said, until we see something more tangible, I'm staying firmly on the sidelines, arms folded, eyes squinting, and unyieldingly cautious this time around.

We'll see.

[zookeeper]

SoonerDave, Division 4 (a division of the "big football schools") is much more than just changing conferences. A lot more. It's going to ruin college football once and for all.

The CBS Sports article that OU48A posted spelled it out well.

[traxx]

This does not have legs. B1G would not accept OU because it is not an AAU school. The only reason it was not an issue for Nebraska is they lost their AAU status weeks before their move. Had they lost it before they applied to the then Big 10, it would have been an issue.

Not true. It had to have been known for quite a while that Nebbish would lose AAU. It wasn't a surprise that just popped up at the last minute like their credit card being declined at a restaurant.

B1G wasn't my first choice but I believe that Boren would bolt for the B1G without little brother. Yeah, he's been tied to them on all the other expansion stuff but being in the B1G and being associated with the B1G schools is a wet dream to Boren. I also don't believe the GOR is as big an obstacle as it's made out to be. Plus, if they got both OU and tejas, that would effectively end the Medium Sized 12.

[SoonerDave]

SoonerDave, Division 4 (a division of the "big football schools") is much more than just changing conferences. A lot more. It's going to ruin college football once and for all.

The CBS Sports article that OU48A posted spelled it out well.

Yes, I read the article, and I think it is entirely too dismissive of the grant of rights issue.

And keep in mind the underlying, critical point: Conferences and NCAA divisions are two separate things.

The NCAA could create a Division 29 with a 32-team-playoff tomorrow, but it wouldn't necessarily have any impact on the existence and structure of those conference entities called the Big 12, Big 10, SEC, et al. And all those operating agreements, rights grants, the whole nine yards, would still be subject to those agreements. The Big 10 can "look see" at OU all its wants, and OU can be receptive to that "look see," but it still has to deal with that grant of rights issue somehow. It won't just disappear, no matter how much the CBS writer wants to make it go away.

Now, if you want to postulate that the attorneys who drew up those grants of rights included some smart language about grants rights automatically being revoked if the NCAA changed its overarching organization structure of the game, that's valid. Point given. If, however, there isn't such a trapdoor, then the grant of rights issue has to be addressed somehow.

All other things being equal, based on what we think we know, the only way those rights revert back to the member schools is if the member teams vote to dissolve the conference. And the only way the lower players in those conferences that might not even be part of a "Div 4" are going to agree to dissolution is if they get some kind of substantial consideration in return.

[SoonerDave]

I also don't believe the GOR is as big an obstacle as it's made out to be.[/B] Plus, if they got both OU and tejas, that would effectively end the Medium Sized 12.

Not if they don't get the member schools to vote to dissolve it. That was what was supposed to make the GOR such good glue. Schools can't just walk away, because their rights don't go with them. That's why its an 800-lb gorilla.

Now, maybe the attorneys and legal beagles already know exactly how to wave the legal magic wand and make them go away, but right now, as I said before, all we know about getting the rights back is if the conference dissolved, and IIRC that requires a majority vote. The minor players like ISU aren't going to give up what amounts to their life blood without some kind of fight.

[kelroy55]

The chances of this happenijng is slim or none IMHO. Missouri just joined the SEC so why would they want to leave.

[onthestrip]

The one thing that always brings a laugh during these discussions is academics. As if thats what really matters when it comes to realignment. This is nothing more than a money and power grab.