Mid-trip Observations

[Spartan]

They need a downtown Urban City Pass for the downtown attractions. Buy one pass (at a reduced rate) and get into all the downtown attractions. It could include admission to the Banjo Museum, Oklahoma Heritage Center, OKCMoA, Oklahoma City National Memorial, Bricktown Rocks, Overholser Mansion, Water Taxi, and MBG. Add places that are free but no one knows about (like the Oklahoma Museum of Telephone History) and it will pull in visitors and entice other attractions downtown (like the National Photography Hall of Fame and the Toy and Action Figure Museum). If the American Indian Cultural Center & Museum is ever done it could be connected to downtown via a water taxi and added to the list. And why the hell is the Museum of Osteology located out in boondocks. It should be downtown where people might actually see it.

That is an awesome idea. I don't even know wtf osteology is though.

[kevinpate]

JTF, while all food options in the UNP area are chains, there isn't a shortage of other dining opportunities in Norman. Perhaps you've been away so long you've forgotten. Take a look at Norman Restaurants | Urbanspoon and you'll see that while a couple of chains are listed, most are local establishments.

There are many, many additional opportunities for dining in Norman not listed there to permit one to explore and enjoy without stepping foot into a national chain venue. So yes, chains are present in (over)abundance for the folks who prefer that sense of familiar comfort, but they are also easily avoided.

Merry Christmas, and I hope you convince your spouse Oklahoma is worth the move.

[catch22]

That is an awesome idea. I don't even know wtf osteology is though.

Bones, I think.

[CaptDave]

That is an awesome idea. I don't even know wtf osteology is though.

Bones - the study of. OKC actually has a skeleton museum.....

[kevinpate]

That is an awesome idea. I don't even know wtf osteology is though.

The study of the structure and function of the skeleton and bony structures. The museum mentioned has a website at
Museum of Osteology (Oklahoma City, OK) - America's Only Skeleton Museum!

[Spartan]

Well I meant that a downtown museum ticket would be awesome. DOKC needs to get on this. Too many museums downtown are struggling.

In the near future the ticket could be bundled with streetcar passes. Most all European cities do this for tourists.

[Spartan]

There is a lot more critical mass of museums downtown than we realize.

[zookeeper]

The Osteology Museum is constantly packed with school kids from primary grades through high school. It's really an amazing visit.

One city I visited and I can't remember where it was had a program for downtown attractions with a pass that was good for certain hours or certain days. Like every Tuesday & Thursday could get you in with the pass. I wish I could remember the details, I'll think about it.

[bluedogok]

In most major cities interstates are busy more than just during rush hour, areas like DFW or Houston any of them near the city center are packed for 16 or so hours a day. Mid-sized cities with poor highway infrastructure like Austin are parking lots during rush hour but are still very busy during the rest of the day. On weekends I-25, I-70, I-225, C470 are still pretty busy on weekends. I know that highways are the bane of the urbanist but they are a fact of life and need to be maintained just as other transportation systems need to be expanded and maintained. Just like everything, a balanced approach needs to be the norm rather than the exception because the burbs are not going away in most parts of the country.

I have too many hobbies that require space and create noise (wood/metal working, cars, motorcycles) to live in an urban environment where space is at a premium. The only way that I could is is I had an old warehouse or something. Most of the urban living type of folks that I know here or in Austin their only hobby tends to be drinking, but then most are in the mid-to-late 20's so I can understand that.

[Just the facts]

There is a lot more critical mass of museums downtown than we realize.

I just hope if it ever happens they don't water it down with attractions outside the urban core. While downtown and the adventure district can work together to lure visitors to the city, downtown needs to start getting a little greedy with the tourism dollars. Disney loves being in Orlando, but they do everything in their power to keep tourist from leaving their property.

[Dubya61]

I realize that this board tends to collect urbanists, but reading through this thread made me think of the "Is Norman Going Downhill" thread. DOKC could well siphon off all of the stuff that once made Norman unique and cool. Norman should get off the fence and allow some urbanism to take hold in at least a small section of Norman.

[Just the facts]

I'm not sure if Norman is going downhill at all, and I'm not sure how big a hill Norman was even on to begin with. For years Campus Corner was the only pedestrian oriented district in the Metro. Downtown Norman has developed nicely but they could use 4 things: 1) convert the streets to 2-way, 2) multi-story residential, 3) a hotel, 4) regional rail station. 2, 3, and 4 could all be combined into one.

Urban Norman isn't going downhill so much as it isn't keeping up with other parts of the metro, specifically the urban core of OKC. Suburban Norman is only getting worse.

[bchris02]

I agree with everything in the OP except for the Devon comments. I really like the Devon tower. It does make the skyline look a little off balance but there will likely be another tower or two constructed before its all said and done and once that is complete it will look fine. It doesn't look bad even now. Another good thing is it upped the standard for future downtown construction.

[MikeLucky]

3. Downtown OKC is cool beyond my wildest dreams, except for Devon and Sandridge; they are even worse than I feared. Quote from son - why does downtown only have 1 tall building. I won't talk about sidewalk appeal.

This is just REEKING of a personal vendetta you have... at least that would explain some of it. My family and I drove by Devon on our "Christmas Lights" tour (Devon, Automobile Alley, Chesapeake, Nichol's Hills, Down's Family Farm). My folks are old and really can't get around as well anymore so it's just a driving tour. But, of all the places we went Devon was the ONE place that almost made my elderly folks want to get out of the car and walk. It is a corporate tower, yet it was incredibly vibrant and bustling on a cold December night. To indicate that Devon is in any way not pedestrain friendly or interaction friendly, is just absolute lunacy.

If you like Norman, great. I used to live in Norman, now I don't. We're both happy. I would move to downtown OKC tonight if the wife gave the green light. Maybe she needs to spend more time with Sid's family.

Why do you want Norman to be like Downtown OKC so badly??? People that live in Norman, prefer that it isn't like downtown OKC. I find it ironic that the "urbanists" say they seek diversity, yet hypocritically they want everyplace to be urban and exactly the same.

Yes, Norman and Downtown OKC are different... Get over it... Can the Norman leaders do better? Sure. But, to compare it to downtown OKC is again, a stroke of lunacy.

[Just the facts]

I saw this sign at Harney and 7th. I love the pedestrian walking times and wish there were more sign like this all around downtown.



However, putting them 15 feet off the ground doesn't work well. I asked this nice lady if she could stand next to the sign to give it some scale. She said she has walked the sidewalk for years and this was the first time she has ever seen that sign.

[bchris02]

Why is there a sign for the Pride festival which only happens once per year?

No offense meant by that at all.

[Dubya61]

Those signs were put up during a Better Block project. I'm not sure why that one wasn't removed but if I had to guess it is because those signs are really there to act as an illustration of what we could do. BetterBlock projects typically just take existing spaces and try to show how they can be modified. The goal is to create momentum around good ideas that can be used elsewhere and to show how valuable public space can be - right under our nose.

I also think that it helps to have signs to temporary-but-recurring events to remind people just how much stuff goes on downtown.

[bchris02]

Those signs were put up during a Better Block project. I'm not sure why that one wasn't removed but if I had to guess it is because those signs are really there to act as an illustration of what we could do. BetterBlock projects typically just take existing spaces and try to show how they can be modified. The goal is to create momentum around good ideas that can be used elsewhere and to show how valuable public space can be - right under our nose.

I see. I guess leaving that sign up is a nice show of social progressivism in a region of the country known for being the opposite.

[Just the facts]

Those signs were put up during a Better Block project. I'm not sure why that one wasn't removed but if I had to guess it is because those signs are really there to act as an illustration of what we could do. BetterBlock projects typically just take existing spaces and try to show how they can be modified. The goal is to create momentum around good ideas that can be used elsewhere and to show how valuable public space can be - right under our nose.

Well then what do we need to do to get more of them? If they were bought with private funds would the City let them be put on existing poles?

[Spartan]

Owe are some really inflated walk times. There's no way it could take 5 minutes to walk two blocks to the Memorial.

[Dubya61]

That depends on what route you take.

[bluedogok]

I'm not sure if Norman is going downhill at all, and I'm not sure how big a hill Norman was even on to begin with. For years Campus Corner was the only pedestrian oriented district in the Metro. Downtown Norman has developed nicely but they could use 4 things: 1) convert the streets to 2-way, 2) multi-story residential, 3) a hotel, 4) regional rail station. 2, 3, and 4 could all be combined into one.

Urban Norman isn't going downhill so much as it isn't keeping up with other parts of the metro, specifically the urban core of OKC. Suburban Norman is only getting worse.

They flattened "the hill" down in Norman when they started UNP.....

[Just the facts]

They flattened "the hill" down in Norman when they started UNP.....

Good one. I actually thought the same thing when I was typing that. I noticed they named a street (Mt Williams Dr) after it in UNP.

[kevinpate]

No need for a regional rail when the only available rail is a there and back again, daily amtrack to FW. but someday, yeah.

More and newer housing near DT, especially between DT and campus, would be a plus. However there is quite a resistance to it in that specific area, from both existing homeowners and the investment owner folks. They derive a tidy income from students renting out their existing structures in the area. Not sure anyone is willing to pay enough for the land to buy the existing folk out.

The tandem one way streets of Main and Gray function fine. The increased parking in between has been beneficial to the various businesses along both streets. Turning each into a two way street simply isn't necessary to improve flow in the area.

A DT hotel would be a nice addition. Although a few new hotels and motels have been added in recent years, each has been several miles removed from DT.

It has been nice though seeing the number of new businesses open DT in recent years. Most seem to be doing well. Hopefully the space vacated by Native Roots will get a new tenant soon.

[Just the facts]

WichitaSooner - sorry, I just your questions from yesterday. I don't want to turn this into a Devon Tower thread so let me just say that I don't care for all the open space on their site, the lack of on-street parking adjacent to their property, and glass curtain walls. If they gave awards for shinny steel and polished granite Devon Tower is a shoe-in to win. As a pedestrian it offers me nothing. I have much more reason to go in FNC.

If you like traffic go to Norman, they have plenty of it and they have bad roads to go with it. I think everyone agrees with that - even people who live in Norman.