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Thread: Bus Pilot Project

  1. #26

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    can't call it semi-regular, but yeah, a few times within the last two years.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    Your post #13 makes this a complete waste of time. N one rides the bus system because they have a self fulfilling failure built in. This is amazing that no one can see how obvious this problem is. Our bus system has been an embarrassment since it was founded decades ago and will continue because no one wants to address the real problem. I would never ride the bus in OKC because it is not dependable to get where you need to go. You also cannot get there in a reasonable time frame. Our bus system has failed for the following reasons...

    1. There are not enough routes to get anywhere
    2. The buses do not come frequently enough.
    3. The routes that do exist winding around in a way that looks like spaghetti making it difficult to know where it goes.

    The city continues to have their heads in the sand and create a system where no one can get where they need to go and when they need to get there. Then they say we don't want to make any real routes because no one rides the bus. No one rides the bus because they can't depend on them. It is a vicious circle. If a complete overhaul is off the table then we are wasting our time. They keep wanting to only have routes in the core so no one else can get there. I just moved out of Del City last year and I can tell you that many people live there and have no other way to get around and get this. There is not a single bus route that goes through Del City.


    Our bus system is a complete joke and you have people on this board that are in a parallel universe where they think that five miles worth of "light rail" is an answer to transportation issues. That is the single reason that many people were against MAPS III. You may remember that during the MAPS III inquiry, the number one request people put together was transportation issues. Mayor Mick Cornett must think we are stupid. He actually thinks that ANYONE outside OKCTalk thinks light rail answers this issue AT ALL. This statement in post #1 says it all "But with the hundreds of millions to be poured into the streetcar and Santa Fe Station, it begs the question: How can we best spend a fraction of that amount to get people out of cars and onto the bus?"

    They just do not get it. They are willing to spend "hundreds of millions" into a streetcar that no one outside of downtown can use while wanting to spend "a fraction" of that amount on the rest of the city.

  3. #28

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    So far I count three to four system utilizers. Maybe 4.5 . . .
    (and a tip o' the hat to you, Sid)

    Okay . . . (ref. posts 13/33) . . . to make the current system more useful and appealing to non-riders . . .
    How about stewards/stewardesses and free wifi?
    This way, you could buy an all day pass and ride all day when the weather is really hot or cold.

    (i have to compliment the current buses on their excellent air-conditioning systems and courteous drivers. it almost makes up for the fact that while the bus can understandably be five to seven minutes late it can also be a few minutes early, in which case you miss it and have to call work to excusify.)

  4. #29

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    Quote Originally Posted by plmccordj View Post
    Your post #13 makes this a complete waste of time. N one rides the bus system because they have a self fulfilling failure built in. This is amazing that no one can see how obvious this problem is. Our bus system has been an embarrassment since it was founded decades ago and will continue because no one wants to address the real problem. I would never ride the bus in OKC because it is not dependable to get where you need to go. You also cannot get there in a reasonable time frame. Our bus system has failed for the following reasons...

    1. There are not enough routes to get anywhere
    2. The buses do not come frequently enough.
    3. The routes that do exist winding around in a way that looks like spaghetti making it difficult to know where it goes.

    The city continues to have their heads in the sand and create a system where no one can get where they need to go and when they need to get there. Then they say we don't want to make any real routes because no one rides the bus. No one rides the bus because they can't depend on them. It is a vicious circle. If a complete overhaul is off the table then we are wasting our time. They keep wanting to only have routes in the core so no one else can get there. I just moved out of Del City last year and I can tell you that many people live there and have no other way to get around and get this. There is not a single bus route that goes through Del City.


    Our bus system is a complete joke and you have people on this board that are in a parallel universe where they think that five miles worth of "light rail" is an answer to transportation issues. That is the single reason that many people were against MAPS III. You may remember that during the MAPS III inquiry, the number one request people put together was transportation issues. Mayor Mick Cornett must think we are stupid. He actually thinks that ANYONE outside OKCTalk thinks light rail answers this issue AT ALL. This statement in post #1 says it all "But with the hundreds of millions to be poured into the streetcar and Santa Fe Station, it begs the question: How can we best spend a fraction of that amount to get people out of cars and onto the bus?"

    They just do not get it. They are willing to spend "hundreds of millions" into a streetcar that no one outside of downtown can use while wanting to spend "a fraction" of that amount on the rest of the city.
    We get it. But,there's another reason. People in Oklahoma City think the bus is for people who cannot afford a car. And the majority of them are going to think that way until the bus is a part of a comprehensive system that appeals to them. While light rail and streetcar are expensive, they're perception changers. In fact, early Portland data showed that people would wait for the streetcar, even if a bus going the same route was immediately available. Light rail will appeal to people who live in Edmond and Norman and other locations it might serve. When they get into the hub, they're going to need to walk, ride a bus or take a streetcar to their destination. When a bus is only part of their transportation route, they may actually use it - as long as it's readily available and goes fairly directly to their destination. Once people have ridden buses for part of their trip, the idea of using it for an entire trip may start to appeal to them.

    But, if we don't have other transit options besides buses and/or gas is so prohibitively expensive that people will do anything to avoid driving, a bus system will never stand alone, no matter how logical and easy to use. We might be able to increase ridership a bit, but not significantly.

    In addition, light rail and streetcar significantly promote development. The streetcar can be part of a park and ride system that eliminates downtown congestion. It can move large numbers of people into and out of the downtown rapidly if desired. Light rail and streetcars cannot only be evaluated in terms of their effect on transit.

    I don't think anyone thinks light rail or a streetcar are an answer to transportation issues. But, that doesn't mean they're any less important. I believe they are the key to getting people who own cars out of them, and losing that idea that mass transit is only for those "unlucky" enough not to have a car.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    Well said, Betts. All good points, clearly expressed.
    Perhaps--as this is a "perception" thing . . . As older buses are retired they could be replaced with something along these lines. At least for The Elite Urban Corps Ridership. They could start selling season passes now to pay for the upgrades.



    I'd probably wait at a shelterless bus stop on a day when the wind chill was down around zero to climb on board one of these. And based upon the number of riders at the times I've caught the bus there would be plenty of room for all.

  6. #31

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyOne View Post
    Three simple things that I think would make riding the bus a hell of a lot easier (at least for me):

    1) Better maps. Have you looked at a Metro route map lately and tried to figure out which bus you'll need and when it will be there? It's not easy to do.

    2) Better on-time performance. If the bus won't get me where I need to go when it says it will, that's a non-starter.

    3) Nicer shelters. Have you seen our bus stops? If you haven't, I've included a picture for your enlightenment. They are beyond embarrassing and, with our weather, it is absolutely unacceptable that this is what we have. I cannot find the words to adequately describe how frustrating it is to see these passed off as bus stops.

    Attachment 2839

    These three items seem to be *relatively* easy fixes, especially when we're limited from suggesting wholesale changes.
    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    I'll bet using a sample of this tune in cutting-edge ads on television
    (as well as over speakers for the top-riders) would increase ridership.

    On the other hand, maybe they should reserve the tune for the express buses only.
    (does it need more cowbells?)

    All kidding aside, I think OnlyOne nailed it.

    Actually, I think both of you hit on the things we can do now to make our bus transit better and an alternative for elective riders.

    I also think giving the buses a new paint scheme would help. The streetcar and buses need to have the same paint scheme with the exception of a few special theme buses such as the natural gas powered ones I see now.

    In the longer term, I think we should consider converting the entire bus fleet over to CNG or LNG (whichever is more practical). It would be a "green" option for people who make that a priority AND it would give our local energy companies a platform to provide "green" fuel for an entire transit network.

  7. #32

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    Does anyone actually know the bus' on-time rating?

  8. #33

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    Also, sidewalks are a huge issue with bus ridership. Although I only have to walk across the street to catch the bus going south of my house, I have to walk 8 blocks if I want to go north or coming home from a southbound trip. Since my husband and I share a car since we work together we use the bus to get to work occasionally, but make sure we have a ride to get home.

  9. #34

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    Quote Originally Posted by plmccordj View Post
    you have people on this board that are in a parallel universe where they think that five miles worth of "light rail" is an answer to transportation issues. That is the single reason that many people were against MAPS III. You may remember that during the MAPS III inquiry, the number one request people put together was transportation issues. Mayor Mick Cornett must think we are stupid. He actually thinks that ANYONE outside OKCTalk thinks light rail answers this issue AT ALL. This statement in post #1 says it all "But with the hundreds of millions to be poured into the streetcar and Santa Fe Station, it begs the question: How can we best spend a fraction of that amount to get people out of cars and onto the bus?"

    They just do not get it. They are willing to spend "hundreds of millions" into a streetcar that no one outside of downtown can use while wanting to spend "a fraction" of that amount on the rest of the city.
    1. I don't think anyone on here thinks that the streetcar or initial rail investments answer the greater problem. You being pretty overly dramatic.

    2. The original comment "hundred of millions" should be deleted/corrected. It is a $130 million budget for not only the streetcar, but development of Santa-Fe Station, rail connections to it for a greater future system, and an initial maintenance facility. Also a study of connections to the NE side and Del City/Midwest City.

    I hear these comments all of the time. But the internal polling that I saw reflected that people desired a rail investment in MAPS 3. Not buses.

    That doesn't mean we shouldn't invest heavily in the bus system.

    Here's how to make permanent dramatic improvements relatively cheaply that would increase ridership-

    INFRASTRUCTURE

    1. New stops, marked on maps as to their location, designed for the extreme weather conditions that are unique to our city
    2. Maps of the route at the stop/system map at every stop
    3. Shade trees/landscaping at stops
    4. Automated wifi enabled traffic signal prioritization to increase speed, effectiveness, frequency (also reduces fuel costs significantly)
    5. Sidewalks and ADA to stops
    6. NEXT BUS automated time stamp information via GPS on digital boards at stops

    SYSTEM

    1. Make an announcement that in 4 years the service area will be reduced/consolidated (So move into those areas if you are dependent on public transportation)
    2. Go to a grid
    3. Develop a express bus route "hub and spoke" to overlay the grid and reach far flung areas to connect to Santa-Fe Station
    4. Eliminate COTPA and introduce an RTA Regional Transit Authority (consolidate regional resources/funds/and operations for efficiency)
    5. Go to CNG buses to stave off diesel fuel cost fluctuations


    FINANCING

    1. Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate
    2. Take ownership of advertising revenues at stops
    3. Change the mandate that separates parking from subsidizing transit (Parking/cars should subsidize transit)
    4. Quarter cent to half a cent Sales Tax or gasoline tax to create a stable Operations and Maintenance revenue stream

    I'm tired of streetcar advocates getting accused by people like plmccordj of being delusional. We know about nearly all of this stuff and we want it all improved. The streetcar is the permanent investment that the city cannot walk away from that provides a Class A service and acts as the collector/distributor of that future larger system. Our strategy is to start from the center, invest decisively, and work our way outward.

    There will be much more transit in the next decade for OKC. But this mess has been 60 years in the making. Its going to take political will, strategic campaigning, a successful institution of a reliable funding source, and intelligent administrators to change it.

  10. #35

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    You know one of the biggest reasons I hear from people who don't take mass transit is the extra time they say it takes. Somehow they need to be shown that the few minutes they get to work earlier is not worth the hundreds of dollars a month they pay for it.

  11. #36

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    Maybe a commercial that shows a person eating nice dinner out, buying a new DVD, watching Netflix, buying school supplies, etc and then says "I save $200 a month taking the bus to work". Then another person saying "So what, I get to work 5 minutes earlier." Then end with a black screen that asks "Would you rather have $200 or get to work 5 minutes earlier?"

  12. #37

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    Maybe a commercial that shows a person eating nice dinner out, buying a new DVD, watching Netflix, buying school supplies, etc and then says "I save $200 a month taking the bus to work". Then another person saying "So what, I get to work 5 minutes earlier." Then end with a black screen that asks "Would you rather have $200 or get to work 5 minutes earlier?"
    I think you should also have the person riding the bus say and I spent my whole commute including those extra five minutes watching you tube and checking Facebook on the wifi (after it is implemented) instead of getting angry with the guy driving to slow or tailgating me.

  13. #38

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    Even better would be the person on the bus checking traffic conditions which shows an accident, and have the 'other' person in commercial series be in the accident. Then as the bus drives by you see the 'other' guy talking to police after being rear ended (with coffee spilled all over him to boot).

    While commuting to and from Atlanta I took MARTA to the airport. It was about 15 minutes time difference but I saved $20 a day by parking at the MARTA station and the 1 hour ride was stress free. I could browse the internet, read, people watch, watch the city go by, etc...

  14. #39

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    If the bus came to 50th and Mac I and a number of others would ride I'd walk a half mile for a bus but not 2 miles. Get some Bethany warr acres area service the worst that could happen is we spend our money in OKC rather than Bethany warr acres its like collecting bus fare and capturing more tax dollars the most bang for the buck

  15. #40

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    I see a bus every day at 63rd and MacArthur. I know that not within 1/2 mile but it's certainly not 2 miles.

  16. #41

    Default Re: Bus Pilot Project

    I'd prefer not to get robbed for my bicycle that I don't own yet not sit on a bench on or near lyrehood lane. Being robbed a couple times waiting for the bus overthere is why I don't utilize the bus at all anymore is rather walk in the snow than go up that way again

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