OKC/Tulsa Metroplex?

[RadicalModerate]

Why in the hell do you write your posts like some cryptic poem with all the weird formatting? It's beyond annoying.

Obviously, the only rational answer to your question would be that I apparently have a previously unknown mission. That mission is to annoy you. I would venture a guess that you also find Sudoku, M. C. Escher, Mitch Hedberg, Firesign Theater and e.e. cummings annoying, but I could be wrong about that too. So, is this version any less annoying?

a bullet train yeah that's the ticket all of the folks in for example moore norman noble purcell wynnewood davis and dougherty or edmond arcadia luther wellston chandler stroud bristow and sapulpa could go out to the tracks and watch the train speed by for free entertainment it would be sort of like the interstate highway system for the new millennium another benefit of this plan would certainly be the huge improvements in the taxi fleets of ardmore, enid, tulsa, muskogee and that town in western arkansas unless you meant fort supply well taxis or ride-and-share bicycles/pedalcabs.

Probably not (less annoying). I find James Joyce's "stream of consciousness" style a bit annoying and cryptic myself.

Did I just hear the sound of one hand clapping? Or was it the sound of one "Ignore" button being pushed by a formerly upraised middle finger? In retrospect, I suppose that a simple "ouch" or {sob} would have sufficed, and I apologize, in advance, for any further annoyance on your part. Not that I can do anything about it.

Nor can I do anything about the fact that I doubt seriously that the answer to the question OKC/Tulsa Metroplex? is yes.

[Edgar]

we can't even managed to repair our crumbling capital and folks are talking about high speed rail? Never in this joint. Ok once had leaders of vision, Kerr, Bellman- no more.

[Just the facts]

A "bullet train" . . . Yeah . . . That's the ticket . . .

All of the folks in (for example)
Moore--Norman--Noble--Purcell--Wynnewood--Davis and Dougherty
or
Edmond--Arcadia--Luther--Wellston--Chandler--Stroud--Bristow and Sapulpa
could go out to the tracks and watch the train speed by for free entertainment . . .

It would be sort of like The Interstate Highway System for The New Millennium.

Another benefit of this plan would certainly be the huge improvments in the taxi fleets of Ardmore, Enid, Tulsa, Muskogee and that town in Western Arkansas. (Unless you meant Fort Supply =). Well . . . Taxis or Ride-and-Share Bicycles/Pedalcabs.

https://sites.google.com/site/okcrail/home

[Rover]

I am glad I found this thread. I had started to believe reality was breaking out on the board. Now I know that isn't so.

[Bunty]

Well, some day I'd like to see us link Lawton, Enid, OKC, Tulsa, Muskogee, Pauls Valley, Ardmore, and Ft. Smith all in High Speed (Bullet Train Japan Style *ninja sound) rail... These are our states "Big City's" (Don't quote me on that) but i'd like to see us all connected.

Why Pauls Valley? Why not Stillwater, so people in the other cities can ride the bullet train to Pickens Stadium and other events at OSU and Stillwater. People from organizations in OKC and Tulsa might like to get together in Stillwater for meetings.

[Bunty]

I am glad I found this thread. I had started to believe reality was breaking out on the board. Now I know that isn't so.

Right. Reality is usually too dang boring to contemplate.

[RadicalModerate]

Ref. GoogleMapLink, above (Post #28)(c/o Just the facts)

In the "reality" currently under discussion, wouldn't a "bullet train"--by defintion and interpretation--necessarily involve the by-passing of every possible passenger pickup target on the way to/between The Biggest Cities in Oklahoma? Stopping and starting at all intermediate points would be more like The Freight Trains o' The Late Fifties (with a couple of antique passenger cars attached) or a two year old throwing his model train at The Legoland Christmas Village in a pouting fit of jealous rage.

It certainly could not be defined as what many people think up when they hear the phrase--or read the words--representing "bullet train". I think even the Japanese who invented them would agree.

(Note: Please do not misconstrue/misinterpret any of that as a statement that I don't think the idea of passenger trains is a bad idea. I think it is an excellent idea. I LOVE "trains" and don't even turn up my nose at the recent "Union Pacific" ads on television. It's just all those pesky details, and financing alternatives in order to realize the vision and so forth.)

PS: NPR is doing some pro/antipaganda on this very issue right now
on All Things Considered
. . . 4:19PM =)

[Just the facts]

Ref. GoogleMapLink, above (Post #28)(c/o Just the facts)

In the "reality" currently under discussion, wouldn't a "bullet train"--by defintion and interpretation--necessarily involve the by-passing of every possible passenger pickup target on the way to/between The Biggest Cities in Oklahoma? Stopping and starting at all intermediate points would be more like The Freight Trains o' The Late Fifties (with a couple of antique passenger cars attached) or a two year old throwing his model train at The Legoland Christmas Village in a pouting fit of jealous rage.

Lawton, OKC, and Tulsa would be connected by non-stop express trains running hourly. They would also be served by local trains that made all the intermediate stops. If you live in Chickasha and want to go to Tulsa you take the local train to OKC and then connect to a non-stop express to get to Tulsa.

[RadicalModerate]

I guess that a bullet train would require a whole new set of tracks running next to the existing track anyway so I guess that would work . . . I wonder if enough local people share the love of trains and train travel to make all of this feasible.

[Snowman]

A true bullet train would need a straighter and leveler path than existing tracks, the current ones look every bit the part they were payed by the mile to construct.

[Just the facts]

I guess that a bullet train would require a whole new set of tracks running next to the existing track anyway so I guess that would work . . . I wonder if enough local people share the love of trains and train travel to make all of this feasible.

It is about being able to keep the economy moving with $5, $6, and $7 gasoline. When gas gets to $4 per gallon the economy tanks and gas goes back down. This causes the economy to show signs of improvement which causes gas to go back up, which leads to the next downturn. We have to break the cycle.

[Just the facts]

A true bullet train would need a straighter and leveler path than existing tracks, the current ones look every bit the part they were payed by the mile to construct.

Not only that but there are tons of at-grade crossings as well thanks in large part to section line roads. Those crossings will all need to be removed.

[RadicalModerate]

Why couldn't they just make the "bullet train" run in an underground tunnel? Or "a barrel for the bullet" so to speak. (Like a high speed subway). They could make the grade of the bottom of the tunnel as level as they wanted to. Plus a tunnel is probably less expensive than an elevated, monorailesque track. They could have video screens, where the windows would be, showing the scenery that is being passed. Plus this would obviate the need for those pesky, annoying train horns.

[bombermwc]

Well anything can be built given enough cash. If they want to build a fast train, they'll just have to fork out the cash to do it. Although the same problem would exist as does today....what do you do once you GET to Tulsa? Their bus system is a LITTLE better, but still not really a mass transit option. It doesn't even go out to some of the burbs. And in OKC...unless you drive to park to get on the train, then you can't get to it because of our bad busses. And with the time you'd have to wait for a train to leave (cause let's be real, you aren't going to get more than 1 on the line, and it's not going to be every 30 minutes in both directions), so you can really drive to Tulsa more quickly than even a super fast train gets you there (overall time, not just travel). And for less than what a train ride would cost because it's not going to be as cheap as Amtrack.

You really need a trip like Dallas to make it worth it. And you need transit once you get there. Today, the available resources make it cheaper/faster/more convenient to still take your own car. Now plug in some Go-Cars on either end and you make HUGE progress. But those trains have to be leaving often as well...and given the amount of residential traffic on that road, i doubt we could fill (remember not everyone is going to ride) the train over and over in a regular day. Make it connect up to Kansas City and all points onward, and you get a whole other level of possibilties as well....ie Obama's transit plan.

I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, i'm just trying to keep all the parts in mind.

[Just the facts]

Although the same problem would exist as does today....what do you do once you GET to Tulsa?

Tulsa, Lawton, and OKC are all planning streetcars. Development follows transportation systems so businesses will locate around train stations. You already see this happening in OKC with "things to do" locating along the proposed streetcar route.

[RadicalModerate]

I hope they have trolleys or rickshaws to The Philbrook and The Gilcrease.
Near as I can tell, those are about the only reasons to visit Tulsa.
(Just kidding--sort of. There are some interesting restaurants within walking distance of The Philbrook)
(Sorry about the weird/annoying cryptic formatting)

[Just the facts]

I would have to go back and review Tulsa's proposed route but since the train arrives on a fixed schedule Philbrook and Gilcrease could run a dedicated shuttle bus. However, I suspect most weekday travelers will be business travelers so a supply of Zip cars would be in order.

[RadicalModerate]

Have you ever been to The Philbrook or The Gilcrease?
There is a Holiday Inn Express--an architectually sensitive one involving the recycling of an historic building--within easy walking distance of the latter.

Are the "Zip cars" solar powered? Or do they rely on hydrogen fusion? Maybe solar-powered magnets?

Awaiting the results of your Tulsa review.
Mr. Tesla is getting impatient. =)

[Just the facts]

Zip cars run on gasoline.

[RadicalModerate]

And therin lies the fly in the ointment.
Metaphorically speaking, of course. =)

"Not only that but there are tons of at-grade crossings . . ."
Are at-grade crossings measured in tons?
Or committed dollars?

(please do not take that as dis-appreciation of Your Vision, JTF.
with apologies for the weird, annoying formatting.
thank you . . . in advance =)

[Just the facts]

A ton is a numerical unit - only in the US and a few other countries does it mean 2000 pounds (since the vast majority of countries use kilograms as the unit of mass - or Newtons to express metric weight).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton

The ton is a unit of measure. It has a long history and has acquired a number of meanings and uses over the years. It is used principally as a unit of weight, and as a unit of volume. It can also be used as a measure of energy, for truck classification, or as a colloquial term.

[RadicalModerate]

Now, Isaac Newton is standing next to Mr. Tesla . . .
Waiting, to board The Train to (or from) Tulsa.
Without cell phones or computers.
i think he may be munching on an apple?

[NoOkie]

Why couldn't they just make the "bullet train" run in an underground tunnel? Or "a barrel for the bullet" so to speak. (Like a high speed subway). They could make the grade of the bottom of the tunnel as level as they wanted to. Plus a tunnel is probably less expensive than an elevated, monorailesque track. They could have video screens, where the windows would be, showing the scenery that is being passed. Plus this would obviate the need for those pesky, annoying train horns.

That's actually been proposed off and on for decades. Except you make the tube a vacuum. Current estimates are of trains being able to hit 2,500mph in a straight line in a vacuum environment.

The downside is that you have to dig a tunnel long enough make 2,500 mph worthwhile. So NY to London, or LA to NY. Given the costs of something like the Chunnel, I suspect we won't see this ever. The idea showed up in a sci-fi novel a read a few years ago, I thought it was neat.

[RadicalModerate]

I think it is too. And fun!
Imagine that. =)

Remember: No Time Machine existed before H.G. Wells (or was it gene roddenberry/timothy leary?) thought of it.
maybe it was kurt vonnegut or that "illuminati trilogy" guy).

I'm thinkin' that maybe OG&E could begin to investigate the Cost/Value/Service concept by actually beginning to bury electrical lines underground, thereby shielding them from the vagaries of nature (e.g. ICE-9 storms).

On "Dune" you would never put trains underground on account of the Spice Worms.
So that is a "neigh" from the Asimov camp.

[Just the facts]

I'm thinkin' that maybe OG&E could begin to investigate the Cost/Value/Service concept by actually beginning to bury electrical lines underground, thereby shielding them from the vagaries of nature (e.g. ICE-9 storms).

This is one of the problems with true HSR across the plains. With storms rolling across the plains your trip would greatly dependent on storms 500 miles away because you would be there in 90 minutes and no one want to go into a hail storm at 350 mph. If you drew a line from Chicago to Dallas how long would it be before a tornado crossed that line. Now picture trains doing 300 mph traveling along that line. Not pretty.