Tribe Casinos Regulate Themselves

[kevinpate]

... You don't have a clue about what I am involved in. ...

Let's see now.
You post, frequently, and bash on casinos. You post no other topics, at least here.
You acknowledge you have a revenge motive, and do not act from any sense of duty or desire to educate.
You claim you post on up to 40 locations on the single topic of trashing tribal casino operations.
You belittle anyone who doesn't share you sense of revenge for casino operations.
You appear to fabricate from thin air most if not all your alleged facts as you trash casinos.
You belittle or berate anyone who even suggests there may be something involved other than dishonesty.
You enjoy hanging out in casinos even when you don't gamble, and make fun of those who do.
You are self professed to enjoying following non-smokers around and blowing smoke at them.
You apparently know some gamblers who put your efforts to shame based on your reports.


All I know about you comes from you. Such is often the case with someone who rants on one topic and only one topic from an anonymous corner.

But for all the ranting, you've yet to establish anything that suggests you're even remotely correct in your beliefs, outside your own obsessed mind anyway.

But nah, you're probably otherwise well-rounded, not that you give any indication of it, but sure, benefit of the doubt and all that.

[WATCHER]

Let's see now.
You post, frequently, and bash on casinos. You post no other topics, at least here.
You acknowledge you have a revenge motive, and do not act from any sense of duty or desire to educate.
You claim you post on up to 40 locations on the single topic of trashing tribal casino operations.
You belittle anyone who doesn't share you sense of revenge for casino operations.
You appear to fabricate from thin air most if not all your alleged facts as you trash casinos.
You belittle or berate anyone who even suggests there may be something involved other than dishonesty.
You enjoy hanging out in casinos even when you don't gamble, and make fun of those who do.
You are self professed to enjoying following non-smokers around and blowing smoke at them.
You apparently know some gamblers who put your efforts to shame based on your reports.


All I know about you comes from you. Such is often the case with someone who rants on one topic and only one topic from an anonymous corner.

But for all the ranting, you've yet to establish anything that suggests you're even remotely correct in your beliefs, outside your own obsessed mind anyway.

But nah, you're probably otherwise well-rounded, not that you give any indication of it, but sure, benefit of the doubt and all that.

Well rounded?? I retired at the young age of fifty just before Bush was elected and ruined our economy. I made enough money from the Clinton economy to have enough money to kick back for the rest of my life. I call that well rounded. As far as this so called obsession. When I see a scam I feel the need to bring it out in the open. If everyone in this country would do that we would have these scams being ran on our citizens. I am thinking that you might be a member of one of these tribes because you seem to have an obsession with protecting this scam. Am I close???

[WATCHER]

Oh and Kevin!! I have never berated anyone that didn't berate me first. It isn't my fault that you disagree with my opinion of these casinos but I have a right to state my opinion so far in this country.

[kevinpate]

Nope, not a tribal member.
Some people just set off my BS radar when they rant on and no with zero factual support.
When it gets as thick as it is in your trashing threads, I tend to call it.

Speaking of BS, the notion you never belittle first ... a bit laughable.

As for no control over the casinos, the state's control is the gaming compact. Your real issue is you think the state failed to insist on a greater level of control, not that no controls exist over the industry. Your support for the position is quite weak, but your focus really ought to be correcting that issue. Trashing the casinos ight satisfy some revenge you feel inside, but it is not going to effect meaningful change.

There is an old adage of when you're up to your arse in gators it's hard to remember your task is drain the swamp. It might be time for you to stop with the gators and focus on the swamp instead. Just saying.

[WATCHER]

Nope, not a tribal member.
Some people just set off my BS radar when they rant on and no with zero factual support.
When it gets as thick as it is in your trashing threads, I tend to call it.

Speaking of BS, the notion you never belittle first ... a bit laughable.

As for no control over the casinos, the state's control is the gaming compact. Your real issue is you think the state failed to insist on a greater level of control, not that no controls exist over the industry. Your support for the position is quite weak, but your focus really ought to be correcting that issue. Trashing the casinos ight satisfy some revenge you feel inside, but it is not going to effect meaningful change.

There is an old adage of when you're up to your arse in gators it's hard to remember your task is drain the swamp. It might be time for you to stop with the gators and focus on the swamp instead. Just saying.

So it is you with the obsession and not me. When this gaming compact was written it seems that the people with The State of Oklahoma were novices in the gambling industry because they didn't include a fairness doctrine in the payout percentages which is very important to the people who play the games. In fact that is probably the most important issue for the players.

[Pete]

This subject is actually interesting in terms of what regulation is in place, who is responsible, etc.

A discussion with more facts and research into this matter would draw in more people.

[WATCHER]

Now that we have seen what happens when the payout percentages of the casinos are not regulated it gives us a reason to amend the gaming compact with the tribes. I am sure that the members of these tribes want to make sure that the citizens of this state are treated in a fair manner and would surely welcome regulation on their payout percentages. They have a reputation to uphold.

[WATCHER]

This subject is actually interesting in terms of what regulation is in place, who is responsible, etc.

A discussion with more facts and research into this matter would draw in more people.

It might draw more people if it were listed under a different forum such as government. It is very hard to get facts about these casinos because they don't disclose anything but profits. Unlike Las Vegas they keep their payouts a secret from the public. Casino Managers in Las Vegas would do the same thing but state regulations won't allow them to keep that secret. I believe disclosure would help these tribes in the long run.

[kevinpate]

Assuming there is a problem, necessary as there are no facts presented, merely supposition, the most important question would be: what, if any, ability is there to re-examine the gaming compact? Like any agreement, sometimes people don't get everything they may want. Sometimes they don't appreciate, or perhaps don't care, about certain opportunities. If a bad bargain was made by the State, would there be a right for a do over?

Most agreements address within the agreement if, when, and/or under what conditions a modification would be possible.

Irrespective of whether the State made a great agreement, a moderate agreement, or a poor agreement, it may simply have to honor the agreement through its stated end date.

Liking the effect of the agreement, or not, is quite secondary to being able to do anything about it.

[WATCHER]

Assuming there is a problem, necessary as there are no facts presented, merely supposition, the most important question would be: what, if any, ability is there to re-examine the gaming compact? Like any agreement, sometimes people don't get everything they may want. Sometimes they don't appreciate, or perhaps don't care, about certain opportunities. If a bad bargain was made by the State, would there be a right for a do over?

Most agreements address within the agreement if, when, and/or under what conditions a modification would be possible.

Irrespective of whether the State made a great agreement, a moderate agreement, or a poor agreement, it may simply have to honor the agreement through its stated end date.

Liking the effect of the agreement, or not, is quite secondary to being able to do anything about it.

That end date is a decade from now. The citizens of this state will be the deciding factor. Citizens are now filing lawsuits over these payouts and I guess it will depend on the court whether an amendment can be made. I am sure that in the long run disclosure would help the tribes and their profits. Right now profits are down in the first quarter because of low attendance. I guess we will see at the end of the year how many people stop going into these casinos. Every business depends on customers. No customers. No business.

[WATCHER]

The only way to change a business practice is to boycott that business. They either abide by the rules of their customers or they lose their customers. I don't think that these casinos can survive on only new customers and that seems to be their plan.

[kevinpate]

citizen remedy is to vote with their feet to enter or not. that's pretty much the extent of the citizen remedy since there is zero requirement to participate in gaming. Again, if the state has made a bad agreement, and that's very much merely an if, bad agreements sometimes do exist, and the parties live with the bargain that was struck.

I get you don't like not knowing the payout level, or that perhaps it can change even on a whim. But, if the parties did not negotiate that aspect, then how would any change be contrary to the agreement?

Again, if people don't find tribal gaming a good deal, not going is the most effective tool available to them. Thus far, I've not seen any operation shut down or even curtail expansion plans so folks are not voting with their feet. Well, except for you and a few friends perhaps.

The comments you or someone attributed to a state official that competition would take care of payouts remaining competitive rings fairly true. If one tribal gaming operations are light compared to others, folks will make a shift. There aren't any real signs of that in the press however.

If I had to venture a guess on whether a center like Riverwind south of Norman will still be operation in five or ten years, my guess would be a solid yes. It's not my cup of tea, but their combination of gaming, concerts, dining and housing strikes me as a balanced approach, and they are far removed from selling off their parking space as excess property when I have driven down 9 headed out to Grady or beyond.

[Roadhawg]

The only way to change a business practice is to boycott that business. They either abide by the rules of their customers or they lose their customers. I don't think that these casinos can survive on only new customers and that seems to be their plan.

I don't think you answered my question from the other thread, or if you did I didn't see it. What have you done other than complain on message boards. Have you contacted the governing board over the casino's? Have you contacted your State Representative?

[WATCHER]

I don't think you answered my question from the other thread, or if you did I didn't see it. What have you done other than complain on message boards. Have you contacted the governing board over the casino's? Have you contacted your State Representative?

My answer to your question is yes. I have a cousin that is a US Congressman and I have had long discussion with him about it.

[WATCHER]

citizen remedy is to vote with their feet to enter or not. that's pretty much the extent of the citizen remedy since there is zero requirement to participate in gaming. Again, if the state has made a bad agreement, and that's very much merely an if, bad agreements sometimes do exist, and the parties live with the bargain that was struck.

I get you don't like not knowing the payout level, or that perhaps it can change even on a whim. But, if the parties did not negotiate that aspect, then how would any change be contrary to the agreement?

Again, if people don't find tribal gaming a good deal, not going is the most effective tool available to them. Thus far, I've not seen any operation shut down or even curtail expansion plans so folks are not voting with their feet. Well, except for you and a few friends perhaps.

The comments you or someone attributed to a state official that competition would take care of payouts remaining competitive rings fairly true. If one tribal gaming operations are light compared to others, folks will make a shift. There aren't any real signs of that in the press however.

If I had to venture a guess on whether a center like Riverwind south of Norman will still be operation in five or ten years, my guess would be a solid yes. It's not my cup of tea, but their combination of gaming, concerts, dining and housing strikes me as a balanced approach, and they are far removed from selling off their parking space as excess property when I have driven down 9 headed out to Grady or beyond.

What about the people who want to play and and be treated fairly. Do they not have a say in this matter?

[Swake2]

have a link to any of these lawsuits?

[WATCHER]

Kevin!!! I have to run and take care of another one of my passions. I will be back later.

[Roadhawg]

My answer to your question is yes. I have a cousin that is a US Congressman and I have had long discussion with him about it.

Is he a Congressman in this state? So you haven't contact the Gaming Authority or any state government about your complaints but choose to post endless whines on here?

[Roadhawg]

Kevin!!! I have to run and take care of another one of my passions. I will be back later.

Hope that other passion isn't train whistles LOL

[Midtowner]

[QUOTE=WATCHER;539877]

They're run by sovereign nations.



That is an interesting comment. Enticing people to play?? How is this done? They entice them to play by saying they have the largest payouts and more winners when in fact they have very low payouts and a very poor chance of anybody winning anything. Nobody walks into a casino to lose and the only entertainment is winning. When nobody is winning the entertainment value disappears and the scam begins. These casinos have been successful because they were drawing lots of people to their casinos because they were playing fair and the payouts were good. That isn't the case anymore. You are the moron if you think that casinos are just entertainment and the people who run those casinos are morons if they think it is just entertainment. The State of Oklahoma needs to intervene and regulate these Indian Casinos for the people they represent or just say they represent the casinos so the citizens understand which side the state government is on.

Well then, maybe everyone will realize it's a scam and say home?

You can't fix stupid.

And your buddy who turned in all those winnings... how much did he lose? Sounds like someone has a serious problem.

[Just the facts]

Quick question, are decedents of indigenous peoples US Citizens now?

[Roadhawg]

I thought all people that were born here are US citizens.

[blueice101]

He had to make his casino trip to "observe"..... and to blow some smoke at people (in more ways than one)

[WATCHER]

[QUOTE=Midtowner;539979]

Well then, maybe everyone will realize it's a scam and say home?

You can't fix stupid.

And your buddy who turned in all those winnings... how much did he lose? Sounds like someone has a serious problem.

Not sure how much he invested. The guy makes about 500,000 a year with his ignorance. How are you doing with yours?

[WATCHER]

Quick question, are decedents of indigenous peoples US Citizens now?

The answer is yes they are but act as if they are not. I am sure that they enjoy the benefits of being Americans but don't seem to want to live as Americans or follow our laws in America.