Ruth Chris and REI

[lasomeday]

I was at the REI headquarters a few weeks ago. They told me they open stores based on how many memberships they have in an area. Usually they have to have 15,000 to open a store. I signed up. The executives there are really nice and looking for new places. They just have a set protocol for new stores. It has been very successful for them.

[MikeLucky]

I'd rather see Red Prime than Ruth's Chris.

Compare like things which would actually compete against each other.

We already have a Red Prime... and several other locally owned prime steak houses. So in this case it's MORE than acceptable to have a national chain to not only compete with the local guys, but to also keep them sharp.

Not to mention the fact that the RC's here in OKC could just as easily be a locally owned franchise. So what does THAT do to your little bias?

[Teo9969]

Six prime steakhouses in metro OKC (assuming you've listed them all) doesn't exactly seem "saturated" to me when there's at least 10 just within a mile of my place in Austin and probably another 10 or more strewn about the city and suburbs. I'd think OKC could easily support a couple more, especially an established chain like Ruth's Chris.

I'd be somewhat surprised if there were 10 Prime Steakhouses within 1 mile of any given point in the city. Doing some quick research on Dallas, I don't imagine they have more than 30ish prime steakhouses, especially ones that are doing well. For a city that is at least twice the size of Austin, it would be surprising to me if the number in Austin was 20. I could be wrong though.

Even so, Austin is a city of considerable more wealth than OKC, and it would show in the restaurants. OKC can't even support its 5th steakhouse: Opus, which has far and away the best wine list in the state. And Boulevard in Edmond is struggling as well. None of the Steakhouses in the area are selling $5M a year in product. OKC should be careful supporting a new endeavor until we show committment to what we already have...especially in the restaurant industry.

Like I said though: In Moore or Norman, great. They don't have any Prime Steakhouses. And again, no thank you on Ruths Chris, there are probably 5 chain steakhouses that are ahead in line, including local Mahogany.

If I had my choice, we'd get a Morton's. That or a Papp.....well, that's dreaming a little TOO big.

[Just the facts]

Jacksonville has 2 Ruths Chris.

[semisimple]

I see...my counting may be wrong because I'm equating "prime" steakhouse to any upscale steakhouse/seafood restaurant. But, yes, within roughly a mile radius of my house I count nine and I'm pretty sure I'm missing a couple: Fleming's, Ruth's Chris, Perry's, Finn and Porter, III Forks, Truluck's, Vince Young's, Eddie V's, Sullivan's.

[Midtowner]

We already have a Red Prime... and several other locally owned prime steak houses. So in this case it's MORE than acceptable to have a national chain to not only compete with the local guys, but to also keep them sharp.

Not to mention the fact that the RC's here in OKC could just as easily be a locally owned franchise. So what does THAT do to your little bias?

My bias remains. S&B Burgers or Tucker's will always > Whataburger.

Big Truck > Taco Bell.

Trattoria > Olive Garden.

Michael's/Red Prime/whatever > Ruth's Chris.

The trouble is, when you get a chain in the market, due to marketing, they gobble up a big percentage of the market share with what is in my subjective opinion, a lower quality, mass-produced product. You might love your Olive Garden "food," and being harassed over buying a bottle of wine with your 11AM lunch, but give me Othello's any day.

[Teo9969]

I see...my counting may be wrong because I'm equating "prime" steakhouse to any upscale steakhouse/seafood restaurant. But, yes, within roughly a mile radius of my house I count nine and I'm pretty sure I'm missing a couple: Fleming's, Ruth's Chris, Perry's, Finn and Porter, III Forks, Truluck's, Vince Young's, Eddie V's, Sullivan's.

I mean, those all look like Prime Steakhouses. So I guess you're right, to which I would return to a point in my other post that Austin clearly has more wealth. People in OKC just can't (or maybe they just don't want to?) afford a $150 meal for two people more than every once and awhile.

[Bellaboo]

I'm with Mid on this one, I'll take the local home grown over the chain any day of the week. By the way, Charleston's has a decent steak for the price.

[MikeLucky]

My bias remains. S&B Burgers or Tucker's will always > Whataburger.

Big Truck > Taco Bell.

Trattoria > Olive Garden.

Michael's/Red Prime/whatever > Ruth's Chris.

The trouble is, when you get a chain in the market, due to marketing, they gobble up a big percentage of the market share with what is in my subjective opinion, a lower quality, mass-produced product. You might love your Olive Garden "food," and being harassed over buying a bottle of wine with your 11AM lunch, but give me Othello's any day.

I'm with Mid on this one, I'll take the local home grown over the chain any day of the week. By the way, Charleston's has a decent steak for the price.

And you guys completely miss the point... OKC already has you two.... The chains aren't for the devoted locals. You guys are in the minority (hence the DEFINITION of chain). They are for the masses.

My Father is someone who goes to Vegas and eats at Outback Steakhouse. I don't get it... but the majority of people will pick a chain the majority of the time because they crave consistency and familiarity.

So, yes, if you choose to NOT like a chain, that it fine... but to automatically dismiss them, especially in a genre that we already have plenty of locals with... then it's just counterproductive to the "growth" and "stability" that all of you ironically crave.

[Just the facts]

And you guys completely miss the point... OKC already has you two.... The chains aren't for the devoted locals. You guys are in the minority (hence the DEFINITION of chain). They are for the masses.

My Father is someone who goes to Vegas and eats at Outback Steakhouse. I don't get it... but the majority of people will pick a chain the majority of the time because they crave consistency and familiarity.

So, yes, if you choose to NOT like a chain, that it fine... but to automatically dismiss them, especially in a genre that we already have plenty of locals with... then it's just counterproductive to the "growth" and "stability" that all of you ironically crave.

Recently I have had the ability to choose between locals and chains on a daily basis, usually right next door to each other. While I started out trying to pick the local guys I find myself going to the chain guys more and more. For some reason the food is better and the establishments are much cleaner (two reason why chains have thousands of locations). I have found that it comes down to this: Pizza - local guy, everything else - chain.

[Bellaboo]

And you guys completely miss the point... OKC already has you two.... The chains aren't for the devoted locals. You guys are in the minority (hence the DEFINITION of chain). They are for the masses.

My Father is someone who goes to Vegas and eats at Outback Steakhouse. I don't get it... but the majority of people will pick a chain the majority of the time because they crave consistency and familiarity.

So, yes, if you choose to NOT like a chain, that it fine... but to automatically dismiss them, especially in a genre that we already have plenty of locals with... then it's just counterproductive to the "growth" and "stability" that all of you ironically crave.

Okay,

I'll cave just a little bit, It used to be called Houstons, but I think has recently sold, at one time had a bad mother of a Hawaiian Ribeye.

[jdcf]

REI in Plano has great customer service. I am most always pleased though with Sun and Ski Sports and Backwoods.

[Debzkidz]

I'd love to see REI here. I'm a member and have been for years. I love to shop at places like Backwoods or the Summit Company, but they have a pretty limited selection. I will always shop at these first, but if they don't have what I want, I order from REI.

As for the steak thing. Yes, I would prefer local and will always choose that over a chain, but I know people that only eat at chains. I think they like the idea of knowing what they are getting. Also, I've known people that are from small towns that prefer to eat at chains when they are in a city, because they see them advertised on TV all the time, but have no local access. When they go to the city, that's what they want. Commercials make even the worst (Applebee's) look really good. One of my sons has a college fraternity brother that's from some really little town in Arkansas, hours away from a decent sized city. When my son and all his other friends (mostly from Dallas, Memphis, OKC etc) go out to eat, they always like to eat at good local places. This one kid always wants to go to places like Chili's and Olive Garden. For him, living his entire life in a tiny little town in the middle of nowhere Arkansas, those chains are cool and glamorous. To him, it's big city.

[Just the facts]

This one kid always wants to go to places like Chili's and Olive Garden. For him, living his entire life in a tiny little town in the middle of nowhere Arkansas, those chains are cool and glamorous. To him, it's big city.

That is because he spent his whole life eating at local places.

[Bellaboo]

That is because he spent his whole life eating at local places.

Yes, or mom or grandma's kitchen.

[Debzkidz]

That is because he spent his whole life eating at local places.

Exactly. And there's a whole world of people out there just like him.

[MDot]

Yes, or mom or grandma's kitchen.

That was my case. LOL

[Teo9969]

I don't know that you all are painting the market picture the correct way on this.

Of the people who always eat at chains when they eat out, how often are they willing to spend $75 - $100/person in their party?

The things that drive these upscale steakhouses are: Wine/Liquor Sales, Business dinners, and wealthy people who frequent the establishment. At upscale steakhouses, I would harbor a guess that 25% of the guests account for 75% of the sales, and possibly even more disparate than that (20/80 was my first inclination). These types of restaurants are not driven by the middle-class the same way that places like Outback, Chili's, and Red Lobster are. It's good to have that extra 75% of guests walk through the door, indeed they are what push a restaurant forward as some of that 75% evolves into the 25%. But at the moment, OKC only has so many people that can be apart of that 25%. With no high-end restaurants that are selling $5M in product, I don't think it would be wise to come in and slash some of those numbers and risk lowering the quality of the private establishments/local chains.

The other major problem with Ruth's Chris is that their wine program sucks. If OKC is ever going to have destination restaurants (which I think are necessary to become a big time city), the wine culture of the entire city needs a boost. Fleming's 100 wines-by-the-glass is pretty impressive, but I like Morton's full list better...although, with that in mind, for the "75%" I think a wider selection of more moderately priced wine would be more effective.

Another advantage to Fleming's is that is has WAY more buying power than Ruth's Chris or Morton's due to the fact that it is owned by OSI (Outback, Carrabbas, Bonefish Grill, etc.) The more buying power, the more likely you are to get higher quality meat.

[BG918]

There was a development in Tulsa that was slated to have a Ruth's Chris but it was shelved when the recession hit. It was to be a shopping/dining area at Warren Place. Interesting article about the development and its relation to Leadership Square/ Penn Square Bank:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n28112197/

[bluedogok]

Okay,

I'll cave just a little bit, It used to be called Houstons, but I think has recently sold, at one time had a bad mother of a Hawaiian Ribeye.

Houston's is a chain with very good food, that ribeye is great. The one in Austin dropped the Houston's franchise or something and is now called Bartlett's, it has pretty much the same menu.

The Charleston's chain in OKC either was part of Houston's at one time or was a complete clone. It is owned by the Hal Smith Restaurant Group and they have expanded into Arizona, Indiana and Nebraska. It is not on the level of a Mickey Mantle but it is very good for the price.

I have never been to a Ruth's Chris but I do like me some Morton's, there is one about 6 blocks from my office in LoDo.

[demoman]

Would love to see both come to OKC! You don't know what you got until you've been used to having a Fry's, Ruth's, REI or Costco and then move to an area that doesn't offer any of those. Bring them in and more competition I say.

[bluedogok]

I am finding one part of that out, there are no Fry's stores in Denver, Micro Center is the closest store similar but it is not the same. May have to swing by Fry's since I am back in Austin for the holiday weekend.