Removing Freeways

[Maynard]

Not to get side tracked from the freeway discussion, but after the Australia comment I looked up Adelaide, AU. It has the same population as metro OKC and has a region-wide rail system, streetcars, extensive bus system, and not a single American style freeway.

Suh-weet!

[Pete]

The reason Australia has much better mass transit and much less dependency on freeways is that their government wasn't/isn't trying to placate the auto and oil industries like the U.S. has been doing since WWII.

It's amazing to think they are even newer than the U.S., have way less population density but infinitely better mass transit and urban planning. The same can be said about Canada.

Really, the U.S. is unique in this crazy sprawling, car-centric approach. And that is not a good thing.

[Just the facts]

The reason Australia has much better mass transit and much less dependency on freeways is that their government wasn't/isn't trying to placate the auto and oil industries like the U.S. has been doing since WWII.

It's amazing to think they are even newer than the U.S., have way less population density but infinitely better mass transit and urban planning. The same can be said about Canada.

Really, the U.S. is unique in this crazy sprawling, car-centric approach. And that is not a good thing.

Sad isn't it. Meanwhile, another $178 million to add lanes to the Creek and Kilpatrick turnpikes. It seems we will never learn, we will however go broke.

http://newsok.com/work-to-widen-kilp...dline_politics

Authority members voted to seek a $178 million bond issue to widen seven-mile sections of the Kilpatrick and Creek turnpikes.

[Snowman]

From the discussion alone, one might be lead to believe that Australia had no freeways. They do and are primarily in near the major cities metropolitan areas, which look to have a similar sprawl to American cities. I have not been to an Aussie city yet or studied the planing, so hopefully they did better than us.

It seems we will never learn, we will however go broke.

As far as going broke the leading cause for that has been politicians made decisions to spend more than they collect in taxes for decades and continue to do so, even if we had great mass transit and urban planing we would still be massively in debt since they are such a small fraction of the budgets.

[Just the facts]

If we had sustainable neighborhoods think of the billions (if not trillions) we would save on blight. Of course, government spending is only part of the issue. Look at your personal life and see how much of your expenses are suburban in nature (car, yard, gasoline, etc).

[ljbab728]

Sad isn't it. Meanwhile, another $178 million to add lanes to the Creek and Kilpatrick turnpikes. It seems we will never learn, we will however go broke.

http://newsok.com/work-to-widen-kilp...dline_politics

Whether these are worthy projects or not, they have little to do with going broke. My opinion was that those turnpikes should have been originally been constructed to be at least six lanes instead of four. I'm not that familiar with the Creek but the route of the Kilpatrick is hardly a candidate for mass transit alternatives and is more of a city bypass which will gradually turn more local.

[Just the facts]

Whether these are worthy projects or not, they have little to do with going broke.

I was talking more about "total cost of ownership", and I don't just mean the governments cost. I currently live in the suburbs like everyone else. It is a 1/2 mile from my driveway to the entrance to my subdivision. I recently started riding a bike 3 to 4 times a week. I am now up to 6 miles and barely break a sweat.

Unfortunately, a 3 mile trip from my house doesn't get me anywhere except to more sprawling subdivisions and a single Chinese take-out place. I got the bike 17 years ago for Christmas and I know that it cost $100 at the time. If I lived in an area where a bike was reasonable transportation most of the time I would have saved well over $350,000 just in cars and gas in the last 17 years. I am just sorry it took me this long to figure it out. Guess I was too busy chasing 'the American dream' to notice how much money I was wasting.

[Snowman]

I was talking more about "total cost of ownership", and I don't just mean the governments cost. I currently live in the suburbs like everyone else. It is a 1/2 mile from my driveway to the entrance to my subdivision. I recently started riding a bike 3 to 4 times a week. I am now up to 6 miles and barely break a sweat.

Unfortunately, a 3 mile trip from my house doesn't get me anywhere except to more sprawling subdivisions and a single Chinese take-out place. I got the bike 17 years ago for Christmas and I know that it cost $100 at the time. If I lived in an area where a bike was reasonable transportation most of the time I would have saved well over $350,000 just in cars and gas in the last 17 years. I am just sorry it took me this long to figure it out. Guess I was too busy chasing 'the American dream' to notice how much money I was wasting.

Though it unlikely you could have kept that money if you lived in an area that was built in a sustainable way. Gas costs are replaced by the user costs of mass transit, the car is often made up for in the cost or rent or purchase price of whatever type of home. Services are often higher due to labor costs (though more tend to be available). Their is still blight even with more dense populations due to what people demand over time changes, cases of shoddy construction, poor management and the population shifts geographic regions. Some of it might be kept in an area with sprawl but that is due to sprawl will devalue the well planned areas.

[Just the facts]

Though it unlikely you could have kept that money if you lived in an area that was built in a sustainable way. Gas costs are replaced by the user costs of mass transit, the car is often made up for in the cost or rent or purchase price of whatever type of home. Services are often higher due to labor costs (though more tend to be available). Their is still blight even with more dense populations due to what people demand over time changes, cases of shoddy construction, poor management and the population shifts geographic regions. Some of it might be kept in an area with sprawl but that is due to sprawl will devalue the well planned areas.

I think you are taking an American view of it where the only urban cities you have as a reference are NYC and Chicago for the most part. Look at cities around the world with the same population as present day Oklahoma City and you will see they are nothing like NYC or Chicago in terms of cost of living and blight.

As my spinklers were going this morning I couldn't help but wonder how many millions of gallons of fresh water I have poured on the ground over the last 20 years. Then multiple that by the 395 homes in my subdivision, and then multiple that by the hundreds of subdivision in my town. That is a lot of fresh water, and we didn't even use it to grow food.

[betts]

I'm so happy I no longer have a lawn. I've spent my summer watering trees and flowers for the bees. Speaking of bees, I helped my daughter plant flower boxes on the balconies of her new apartment, and they were promptly located by bees. There are clearly some urban beekeepers near her. I'm about to dub Chicago the City of Flowers". It's amazing how many of their light poles throughout the city have gorgeous flower baskets, and every median downtown is planted with a riot of flowers. There are huge concrete pots planted throughout downtown as well. I hope we can do something similar with the new boulevard(bringing myself back on topic).

[Just the facts]

I'm so happy I no longer have a lawn.

I was thinking about you while I was doing 4 hours of lawn care yesterday in 98 degree temps. I was also thinking about the $250 worth of mulch I have to go buy for the flower beds.

[betts]

I'm still buying mulch, although not that much. I redid the bed by my front door, and changed the groundcover under my trees. I'm slowly switching my back bed from nandina to roses and perennials. I've talked to one of the developers about giving us some land for a community garden next year and got a favorable response, so maybe that will happen. But, no grass. That's the one thing that doesn't give back a lot. My flowers are helping support a few species of bees: I've got honeybees and cutter bees, for sure, and at least one other type I haven't identified. I didn't have much luck, with the heat, growing food plants for butterfly caterpillars, with the exception of my passion vine. It doesn't have any gulf fritillary or zebra longwings caterpillars so far, but I'm hopeful because it's just starting to flower. I'm hoping maybe it takes the flowers to lure the adults. We'll see.