OKC Not Alone In Downtown Investments

[bluedogok]

We've got quite a few projects just "sitting out there" waiting to start but have been slammed for most of the past year anyway. I had another 60 hour week last week, just more of the same.

[adaniel]

They are trying to play with the big boys in their own state: Dallas and Houston.

Austin also wants to solidify its status as the #2 city in the nation for the advanced technology sector (behind the Bay Area in CA). Just like Denver is working to be the #2 city for energy behind Houston, with an obvious focus on Rocky Mtn/Dakotas oil & gas production but also renewable energy.

What is OKC's niche? Natural gas? Aerospace?

The only thing that the Bay Area has over Austin is the amount of venture capital available to companies. Otherwise there's no reason for non-executive tech people to be forking out $1 million for shacks in Palo Alto. So the boom in Austin will continue to have some legs. Hope you like 60 hour weeks bluedog.

On another note, it seems the whole "Silicon Prairie" thing has all but died in Dallas. I remember growing up in Dallas back in the 90's and it was Dallas, not Austin, that was supposed to be the next Bay Area. Then 9/11 dot com bust wiped out a lot the telecom companies. The only big tech company left down there is Texas Instruments.

I actually would say that OKC has a larger energy presence than Denver as far as traditional oil and gas are concerned. I know of several independents (Quantum, Cabot, Pioneer, etc.) that have shuttered their offices up there or consolidated them in Houston. Certainly not bashing Denver, in fact I was considering relocating to the area last year and was pretty disappointed to see how few opportunities there were in my field.

[BG918]

I actually would say that OKC has a larger energy presence than Denver as far as traditional oil and gas are concerned. I know of several independents (Quantum, Cabot, Pioneer, etc.) that have shuttered their offices up there or consolidated them in Houston. Certainly not bashing Denver, in fact I was considering relocating to the area last year and was pretty disappointed to see how few opportunities there were in my field.

Denver's rise (or fall) in oil and especially natural gas is tied to production in the Rockies and also Montana/Wyoming/the Dakotas. Those areas are heating up, with the Dakotas the place to be for oil production currently. If natural gas prices increase there will be a lot more activity in the western states, which would be controlled from Denver. OKC and Tulsa control the Mid-Continent production which continues to be hot, especially western OK/TX Panhandle and, if natural gas increases, eastern OK into Arkansas (the Fayetteville Shale). Dallas and Ft. Worth control the production in north and west Texas. Houston is the undisputed leader and major HQ/operations city and also controls the production in south Texas and offshore in the Gulf.

Denver does not have the HQ's of the energy companies like OKC but the companies that are there (Anadarko, Halliburton, Encana, etc.) have big offices in Denver. Cimarex, the company that is building the 18 story office tower in downtown Tulsa, is the largest public energy company HQ'd in Denver. Most of their production is in the Mid-Continent hence why they have a big presence in Tulsa.

Where Denver can really excel is in alternative energy and energy R&D. ConocoPhillips plans to build its global research and training center focused on alternative energy in nearby Louisville which will become a major operations base for them. There is also the National Renewable Energy Lab located there which has spun off related businesses. The Denver area is highly educated which aids research, similar to how Austin is highly educated and for that reason they are a leader in technology. Denver also has a large tech industry centered around the 36 corridor between Denver and Boulder.

[bluedogok]

Hope you like 60 hour weeks bluedog.

It's better than the 80-100 hour weeks that I was doing a few months ago. I got real burnt out doing those for about 6 weeks in a row....and it just keeps coming, I had a rendering job come out of our Indianapolis office this week and may have an animation to do for an Indy project.

Denver also has a large tech industry centered around the 36 corridor between Denver and Boulder.

The Interlocken area has really exploded in growth the past 10 years and the Tech Center area south has as well.

I have looked at moving to Denver off/on for 20 years, interviewed more than few times over the years and had an offer in Vail once for a partner of a firm he went to Putnam City and OSU but we could never get the money for Vail living quite right. A few years back my wife and I were about ready to pull the trigger and just do it with a plan to be relocated by mid-2009, then August 2008 hit. I check the AIA Colorado job board monthly and before that there would be 20-30 ads per month, since then there maybe 3-5 ads per month (6 this month) for the entire state. It just hasn't picked up there as rapidly as it has here. I am still working towards getting licensed in Colorado because you never know what will happen, especially with summers like this.

[UnFrSaKn]

Speaking of Charlotte...

[adaniel]

Where Denver can really excel is in alternative energy and energy R&D. ConocoPhillips plans to build its global research and training center focused on alternative energy in nearby Louisville which will become a major operations base for them. There is also the National Renewable Energy Lab located there which has spun off related businesses. The Denver area is highly educated which aids research, similar to how Austin is highly educated and for that reason they are a leader in technology. Denver also has a large tech industry centered around the 36 corridor between Denver and Boulder.

Yeah I agree. Its a shame that here in the wind capitol of America, Oklahoma doesn't really have any sort of renewables industry. Most of the wind farms here are managed and built by companies out of state.

Speaking of Charlotte...

Yeah whoever said that OKC is in the same league as Charlotte has not done their research. Even assuming that their main industry has been hammered (banking), its still way ahead of OKC. Charlotte is a good model for OKC and I could certainly see this area becoming something similar, but it will be a decade or 2.

[G.Walker]

Our grandmother city Dallas is starting to show her gray hair.

Was in Dallas over the weekend and noticed the Dallas skyline is starting to show her age. All of the tallest skyscrapers in Dallas were built in the early-mid 80's, and Dallas hasn't seen a major skycraper constructed in about 25 years. Yea, she is getting a facelift with the Victory Park development in uptown, with mid-high rise condos, but what happened why the stall of skyscraper construction? Particularly Office?

[BG918]

Our grandmother city Dallas is starting to show her gray hair.

Was in Dallas over the weekend and noticed the Dallas skyline is starting to show her age. All of the tallest skyscrapers in Dallas were built in the early-mid 80's, and Dallas hasn't seen a major skycraper constructed in about 25 years. Yea, she is getting a facelift with the Victory Park development in uptown, with mid-high rise condos, but what happened why the stall of skyscraper construction? Particularly Office?

Because all the new office space was built along 75, the North Tollway and the 635 loop north of downtown. Most of the residents of the Dallas metro live north of 635.

[progressiveboy]

Our grandmother city Dallas is starting to show her gray hair.

Was in Dallas over the weekend and noticed the Dallas skyline is starting to show her age. All of the tallest skyscrapers in Dallas were built in the early-mid 80's, and Dallas hasn't seen a major skycraper constructed in about 25 years. Yea, she is getting a facelift with the Victory Park development in uptown, with mid-high rise condos, but what happened why the stall of skyscraper construction? Particularly Office?

They broke ground about 3 months ago in DT Dallas on the new 42 story Museum Tower a highrise condominium tower with penthouse suites starting at 2.5 million. My understanding is they are nearly sold out.

[G.Walker]

They broke ground about 3 months ago in DT Dallas on the new 42 story Museum Tower a highrise condominium tower with penthouse suites starting at 2.5 million. My understanding is they are nearly sold out.

I am aware of that, but I was talking more along the lines of office development...BG918 pretty much hit in on the head. It seemed to me that downtown Dallas ran out of room in the late 80's and that's why you started to see 20-25 story office development sprawl to north of 635, and spilled over into Richardson/Plano area. Moreover, south Dallas didn't see any type of development, south and southeast Dallas is really blighted...

[bluedogok]

I am aware of that, but I was talking more along the lines of office development...BG918 pretty much hit in on the head. It seemed to me that downtown Dallas ran out of room in the late 80's and that's why you started to see 20-25 story office development sprawl to north of 635, and spilled over into Richardson/Plano area. Moreover, south Dallas didn't see any type of development, south and southeast Dallas is really blighted...

There was plenty of room in Downtown Dallas in 91-93, I could see all the surface parking lots from my 27th floor window in the Arts District, some of the parking lots still had the floor tile from the two and three story buildings torn down.. There was an article in Texas Architect magazine during the same period that stated something like 40% of all property in the Dallas CBD (at that time) were surface parking lots because of the oil boom era destruction for new buildings and the oil bust happening before they were all built.

I remember when EDS and the "new" JC Penney campus were the only things that far north.

[G.Walker]

Nice developments proposed for downtown Omaha, I am a fan and envious of Proposal 2:

http://www.omaha.com/article/2011102...-downtown-site

Proposal 1

Proposal 2

Proposal 3

Masterplans

[Steve]

Back to Charlotte ... it's a good guide for how OKC can jump to Tier 2. Pete was correct in his tier break-down. I'd say OKC is on the high-end of Tier 3 and really is posed to jump to Tier 2 in a decade or so, while Tulsa is Tier 3 and I'm not seeing anything that will change that in the foreseeable future without major league sports addition, air travel upgrade, downtown progress, etc.
Tier status isn't just about numbers - it's about amenities, reputation, etc. And when it comes to the intangibles, Charlotte made the jump in the early to mid-1990s about the same time that Dallas made the jump to Tier 1.

[G.Walker]

Back to Charlotte ... it's a good guide for how OKC can jump to Tier 2. Pete was correct in his tier break-down. I'd say OKC is on the high-end of Tier 3 and really is posed to jump to Tier 2 in a decade or so, while Tulsa is Tier 3 and I'm not seeing anything that will change that in the foreseeable future without major league sports addition, air travel upgrade, downtown progress, etc.
Tier status isn't just about numbers - it's about amenities, reputation, etc. And when it comes to the intangibles, Charlotte made the jump in the early to mid-1990s about the same time that Dallas made the jump to Tier 1.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. A major reason for the prosperity of Charlotte, especially in the downtown area, was by private investments by Bank of America and Wachovia. Most of the tallest skyscrapers built in downtown Charlotte were financed by Bank of America or Wachovia. Therefore, let's hope Devon, Sandridge, and Chesapeake will continue to fuel the downtown area, after their major projects are completed.

[MDot]

Yeah, their Bank of America is our Devon when it comes to downtown, especially around Devon. I believe we're a blessed city to have 3 companies like Devon, Chesapeake, and SandRidge.

[CaptDave]

Yeah, their Bank of America is our Devon when it comes to downtown, especially around Devon. I believe we're a blessed city to have 3 companies like Devon, Chesapeake, and SandRidge.

And soon to add Continental Resources.

I wonder if Oklahoma might become a player in the natural gas powered electric power generation industry. Calpine has one combined cycle natural gas power plant in Coweta. It isn't as cool as solar or wind in the green energy hierarchy, but natural gas fired combined cycle plants are very efficient and have very low emissions.

[G.Walker]

Talk about a big setback, major highly anticipated 4 skyscraper development in downtown Raleigh scaled back dramatically:

http://www.raleighpublicrecord.org/n...ching-forward/

From This:



To This:

[MDot]

Talk about a big setback, major highly anticipated 4 skyscraper development in downtown Raleigh scaled back dramatically:

http://www.raleighpublicrecord.org/n...ching-forward/

From This:



To This:

That's disappointing. But apparently the people of Raleigh like it better than the skyscrapers.

[Spartan]

^ That switcharoo is almost cruel.

Austin and Denver are the two biggest beneficiaries of California's continued economic woes. Lots of companies and individuals heading their direction.

Also, real estate development always finds an outlet. There are so many people involved in that industry that projects have to happen somewhere and when a certain segment (currently office space) and/or region (really, just about everywhere in the U.S.) suffers, the money merely shifts to somewhere else (apartments/hotels in various locales that have fared a little better in the recent climate). Plus, there has been a tremendous boom in lots of places outside North America: Dubai (which has obviously peaked), Moscow, China, Germany, etc.

The herd of developers and investors gets thinned a bit in these downturns, but usually not for long. Real Estate is in the blood of many and it's a sexy business that attracts many of the rich and powerful. You're seeing a few cities do pretty well now but in another 10 years you'll see another upswing in this cycle and there will be lots more activity just about everywhere.

Yeah, Moscow is insane. I was there this spring and the development going on there was stunning to me. I've never been to Dubai but I imagine it to be similar, and I'm not sure if anywhere else in Europe matched it.

[Snowman]

Talk about a big setback, major highly anticipated 4 skyscraper development in downtown Raleigh scaled back dramatically:

http://www.raleighpublicrecord.org/n...ching-forward/

From This:



To This:

The second rendering looks like it was done by a college intern with no experience in 3D modeling software.

[Spartan]

Hey, I can do better than that personally.

[dmoor82]

look what Nashville has in the works to compliment their convention center and Omni hotel,a proposed 700'footer!http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1457413

[G.Walker]

after reading the article, there are more high-rises in the works! so jealous of Nashville right now...

[Bellaboo]

after reading the article, there are more high-rises in the works! so jealous of Nashville right now...

There was a kid on another board from Nashville that was really peod about OKC having an 850 footer.... so don't get too jealous.

[G.Walker]

I am not jealous over just one tower, I am jealous of the continued momentum of Nashville, as it continues to grow and develop an urban environment.

http://8ebb8e4.activerain.com/post/2...-luxury-condos