Maps III Convention Centre Site - YOU be the judge!

[Reno and Walker]

I really believe the opposition to the Ford Site is actually a small minority with a huge bark. This poll is awesome. Great idea !!!!

[Thunder]

I dunno what is wrong with people wanting to use the Ford Center for the convention events.

Keep the Ford Center reserved for OKC Thunder and concerts. I know that concerts can be done in between games.

[Larry OKC]

Snowman, I did not say majority. I said "the most'. Part of my point is that the opinions are varied and fractured. We can't even have a clear cut favorite among the "experts" on this site. To then imply that any one choice the committee, the city staff or the mayor has favored is the result of a conspiracy, stupidity, or corruption is silly.

Or is it? The subcommittee chose the Ford site unanimously. What does that say, if anything?

[rcjunkie]

I dunno what is wrong with people wanting to use the Ford Center for the convention events.

Keep the Ford Center reserved for OKC Thunder and concerts. I know that concerts can be done in between games.

So you feel the OKC Arena should set vacant for app. 320 days a year.

[Thunder]

So you feel the OKC Arena should set vacant for app. 320 days a year.

No. We can use concerts and other BIG events. I don't think convention events are suitable at the Ford Center.

[Spartan]

Well, evidently quite a few people don't think the Ford site is a bad idea... but perhaps a better question would have been what is the BEST use for the Ford site.

[Rover]

Well, evidently quite a few people don't think the Ford site is a bad idea... but perhaps a better question would have been what is the BEST use for the Ford site.

The best use is one that will actually be financed, built and used and will be proper for the site. If there is a great project waiting in the wings for the site and which increases the value for the site then the property will be too valuable for building the CC. The worst thing would for nothing to be built there for a decade or for a half arsed commercial project to be built.

[Reno and Walker]

What about all the parking money they are making, sure they want it vacant till 2020 they are making a killing and they went up to $6 dollars from $5, greedy greedy.

[HOT ROD]

very interesting that the Ford Site has taken a significant lead. I wonder if people are voting for it because it was already chosen by the sub-committee OR do they really agree that it is the best site.

I ask this, because I threw in a curve ball voting choice that Im surprised is not the leader or having more vote. That curve ball, is locating the convention center at E. Central Park, across from the Ford Center on the blvd; with it fronting Broadway (loading docks at Shields). This would open up the Broadway block immediately adjacent to the park and cc to development, which the city could use to PAY for the substation relocation and expansion. .... Im quite surprised this option isn't even in the top 3, because it arguably would be the cheapest and biggest bang for the city, the cc, OG&E, and developers - yet the more expensive Ford site is leading.

I don't mean to sway votes and if it really is true, then so be it. But I wonder, if people really thought about this before voting - or is there a level of apathy in some of the Ford numbers. ...? Particularly given the 'revised' E. Central Park option that could LITERALLY pay for itself.

We probably should have had this poll prior to the subcommittee announcement, I apologize - but at that time I didn't have as much knowledge and I have been and still am in China for the last 3 months. ....

Anyways, if the vote is real - then great. Ford site it is. One thing's for sure, it is great to see so many interested in MAPS and the continued renaissance of downtown OKC (and thereby, the city and metro [and state] itself).

[Spartan]

The best use is one that will actually be financed, built and used and will be proper for the site. If there is a great project waiting in the wings for the site and which increases the value for the site then the property will be too valuable for building the CC. The worst thing would for nothing to be built there for a decade or for a half arsed commercial project to be built.

So you think Hall was totally bluffing about the huge mixed-use development he wanted to do? I have no idea myself, so I'm curious what you think..

[Kerry]

I thought the whole purpose of MAPS was to encourage private development in downtown OKC. It seems counter-productive to stop private development to make way for MAPS developments.

[Rover]

So you think Hall was totally bluffing about the huge mixed-use development he wanted to do? I have no idea myself, so I'm curious what you think..

I am just saying that if they have a viable business model showing something of that scale to be profitable then the land value would be high and would discourage or eliminate the site from CC consideration. ED would be hard since other viable alternatives exist and a commercial and proper development would be possible. I don't have ANY inside info on Hall's intentions on the site, but wanting to do a huge mixed use and being able to do it might be two totally different things. If spending $30-40 million in mid-town for mixed use is hard to finance, then any serious project on that site would also. There is no recent history of successful retail downtown or of significant condo sales of the nature that would make the per foot investment in a quality project there a slam dunk. I don't mean to be negative, but I think that a significant REAL urban design project would still be a longshot.

Again, I go back to putting the CC there and tearing down HALF the Cox center...the western half. Put up something there with the CC hotel, retail and condo/for rent property in a vertical tower overlooking the park. Much safer private investment IMHO.

[Spartan]

Rover, so to fuse my response with Kerry's question, that leads me to ask this: Will OKC ever see mixed-use development exceeding a hundred million dollars? I thought that's what MAPS was all about. And I have heard from various sources that there are a lot of potential big deals out there, but everything is tied up in waiting to see where the chips may land.

But the fact is very disappointing so far. We keep seeing huge potential investment pop up, and then it's taken away. So far MAPS3 has resulted in, basically not a whole lot of development that we can easily trace to MAPS3. OCU canceled. Now Hall's development won't happen. We see MAPS3 in the case of this Ford site actually getting in the way of development itself, which is the complete opposite relationship that MAPS3 was supposed to have in terms of catalyzing investment.

By the way, I like your idea for the Cox Center, because I still think a lot of the meeting rooms should be kept. Unfortunately if you look at the floor plan of the Cox Center, the west side would seem to the half that you want to keep, with the east side being what you could easily eliminate, which is mostly kitchens, unneeded spaces, utilities equipment, etc.

[mcca7596]

Did OCU's decision to back out of the law school relocation really have anything to do with MAPS3 getting in the way?

[Spartan]

No, but it was highly touted as MAPS3 making a difference. First, they were very public about the deal depending on voter passage of MAPS3 (this was effectively used by many, even in my own rhetoric, to convince people that it would bring all this wonderful investment). Then it was lauded for days after the passage as the first major spin-off investment. Then the deal fell through.

Move to another site (the Ford site), and repeat process...

[Rover]

Investments in private development will most likely follow, not lead M3. Just wish one of the rumored big deals would go ahead and happen. If Hall has a big plan ready they should announce and show their hand before the city progresses too far with the cc.

[Larry OKC]

Except the land for the lumberyard site is $450 million.

Is that a typo? $450M?? Heard they were asking $120M for the Mill site and that would have been half of the C.C. budget.

[Spartan]

No they brought their asking price was down to like $45 mil.

[Larry OKC]

Is the Lumberyard site ($450M) and the Mill site ($120 down to $45M) the same sites? I thought they were different???

[Spartan]

Ooooh you'e right, I thought you meant the co-op site. No it's not, that would have to be eminent domained.

[UnclePete]

Please tell me again why we need a convention center? Is the Myriad utilized to its fullest capacity (Myriad sounds better than COX)?

[Rover]

Please tell me again why we need a convention center? Is the Myriad utilized to its fullest capacity (Myriad sounds better than COX)?

Yeah, let's go back to the 60s and 70s when OKC was thriving and competing so well. Everything was great then.

[Larry OKC]

Please tell me again why we need a convention center? Is the Myriad utilized to its fullest capacity (Myriad sounds better than COX)?

Yes and No.

Yes we need a new convention center. There are structural limitations (ceiling heights etc) to the existing. I also believe the Mayor when he stated to renovate it and bring it up to current "Tier 2" status, would be cost prohibitive. Given what was reported about the cost of building a new County Jail and trying to fix the problems of the current one, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is actually cheaper to start from scratch.

No, the current C.C. isn't utilized to its fullest. IIRC, it is only occupied 42% of the time (some of which can certainly be attributed to the "challenges" cited in the Chamber's C.C. Study.

[Watson410]

I can't believe they're going to let that prime piece of land (which is willing to be developed privately!!) sit for 8-9 years BETWEEN a newly renovated Myriad Gardens and newly constructed Central Park...seems like a massive Convention Center would disrupt the flow of everything going on in that area. I'm sorry but if the City of OKC DOESN'T try to expand downtown further South of the Arena this is a stupid move in their part and a blown opportunity!! (of course unless they have an NFL stadium or something planned for South of the Arena!) ;-)

[HOT ROD]

couldn't agree more, Watson!