American Chopper

[Jersey Boss]

In as much as Sr. drove Vinnie to quit, I view this as a testament to Sr. being a giant A-hole. Sr. is the stereotype dry drunk.

[MattB]

remember that Junior did own a chunk of the company, which is what the lawsuits are about. So he wasn't your typical employee

20%, Which SR. simply gifted to him.

[MattB]

IMO Sr is more worried that Jr fails than anything else. Trying to steer vendors and clients away, to make sure he fails, is a little over the top. If I'm not mistaken, he has no relationship with any of the 3 of his sons at this time. That seems to point to him as the crux of the problem. The lack of work ethic demonstrated by Jr and Mikey are problems that he should have addressed earlier in their lives. He's kinda reaping what he's sown at this point.
That being said, it is entertaining to watch Jr deal with someone who is as mouthy and disrespectful as he is.

You mean Odie?

[MattB]

In as much as Sr. drove Vinnie to quit, I view this as a testament to Sr. being a giant A-hole. Sr. is the stereotype dry drunk.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that SR. drove Vinnie to quit? I remember watching the second to last episode he was on... he was pointing the camera man to JR. and some of the other guys standing around cutting up, saying, "Look at this.."

[Jersey Boss]

How did you arrive at the conclusion that SR. drove Vinnie to quit? I remember watching the second to last episode he was on... he was pointing the camera man to JR. and some of the other guys standing around cutting up, saying, "Look at this.."

I arrived at this conclusion by noting that Vinnie left OCC with Cody to open his own job. I speculate it was due to not getting paid what he felt he was worth or unappreciated for what he did. Note at the end of the show when Vinnie left, Sr.'s comment was "anybody can be replaced". Possibly the discord in the OCC shop tween father and son could have also played a role as he was left to do the work while they argued. When Jr. opened his own shop Vinnie cast his lot with Jr. Add it all up and I come to the conclusion that Senior was the factor on why he left.

[Wambo36]

You mean Odie?

Yeah, up until he fired him. I just can't see trying to sabotage my sons business no matter how upset I was with him. Since they can't work together, you would think he be pulling for him to be successful on his own. That seems to be the problem Mikey has with Sr also.

[gen70]

Sr. is the reason that Jr. has made alot of money and gotten alot of recognition. If it wasn't for Sr. Jr. would be just another welder. That being said Sr. shouldn't try and hinder his son's business.

[MattB]

I arrived at this conclusion by noting that Vinnie left OCC with Cody to open his own job. I speculate it was due to not getting paid what he felt he was worth or unappreciated for what he did. Note at the end of the show when Vinnie left, Sr.'s comment was "anybody can be replaced". Possibly the discord in the OCC shop tween father and son could have also played a role as he was left to do the work while they argued. When Jr. opened his own shop Vinnie cast his lot with Jr. Add it all up and I come to the conclusion that Senior was the factor on why he left.

He never said so, but as I've said, he did comment on the other employees slacking off. He never mentioned pay on the show or off, to my knowledge. You're leaving out the part of SR's quote where he said, "I've seen a number of GOOD employees come and go. They can be replaced." Did you ever see SR. twisting off on Vinnie? No, because he was a grown man who did his job, unlike SR's two brats. Vinnie started his own shop before tossing in with Jr. For all we know, his shop wasn't doing too well. There's a lot of assumption going on here.

[MattB]

Yeah, up until he fired him. I just can't see trying to sabotage my sons business no matter how upset I was with him. Since they can't work together, you would think he be pulling for him to be successful on his own. That seems to be the problem Mikey has with Sr also.

Frankly, I think the jabs at junior are SR's tough-guy dysfunctional way of trying to get his attention. I think deep down, he still wants a relationship with he and Mikey.

[MattB]

Sr. is the reason that Jr. has made alot of money and gotten alot of recognition. If it wasn't for Sr. Jr. would be just another welder. That being said Sr. shouldn't try and hinder his son's business.

I agree with that. In fact, I was laughing when I watched that episode. Here's Paulie firing a guy for a lot of the stuff he did when he worked under his father.

[Dustin]

Ok, Im watching the show now.. I don't know if it's a new episode or not but the two are working together. I was wondering if they kissed and made up already?

[MattB]

Ok, Im watching the show now.. I don't know if it's a new episode or not but the two are working together. I was wondering if they kissed and made up already?

That would be a rerun.

[Dustin]

Thought so..

[TaoMaas]

Frankly, I think the jabs at junior are SR's tough-guy dysfunctional way of trying to get his attention. I think deep down, he still wants a relationship with he and Mikey.

I kind of agree in that I think a lot of the bickering between SR and JR is probably just the way they've always related to each other.

[jstaylor62]

I think JR. disrespected him constantly. It was SR's shop, like it or not, and JR. didn't HAVE to work there. He came and went as he pleased, was always late, left for haircuts and real estate closings, etc, and was often absent when needed. He talked back to his father constantly, and ignored everything he told him to do. The only reason he got away with it for so long was because his daddy owned the business. Could you see Rick or Vinnie behaving like that and getting away with it?
That being said, I think you're right about Sr. being too hard to let his defenses down. Frankly, I think the reason he still tries to keep the conflict going is that deep down, he still wants a relationship with JR and Mikey, and in his dysfunctional way, the only thing he knows how to do is to keep stirring that pot.

And you dont think that all the petty arguments and senseless drama was what the producers asked them to display for the show?!?!

[Bigrayok]

I saw Paul Sr. go off on Vinnie on one episode where Vinnie was highly upset. Paul Sr. later apologized to Vinnie. It is my understanding there was bad blood between Paul Sr. and Vinnie after Vinnie left. Do we really know that Paul Jr. had a bad work ethic, or is that just the impression we get from his father's tirades? The bikes Paul Jr, worked on were custom bikes that went anywhere from $150,000 to $1,000,000. He designed them and did a lot of the work on them. How do we know when he showed up late because he had to go to the dentist that he did not make up for it later? From what I saw on the show, Paul Jr. did good work. It always bothered me that Paul Sr. rode Jr. hard, yet laughed at everything Mikey did. I am still trying to figure out what Mikey's role was in the shop other than answering the phone and providing comedy relief.

By the way, does everyone realize that the bodies for the bikes came from Oklahoma City until the past few years? Vinnie and Rick appeared at the Thunder Cycles place on Memorial Road to sign autographs when it opened as a result of that connection. I watched American Chopper regularly the first few years it was on then started to lose interest the last year. I have seen the new show a couple of times and hope Paul Sr. and Paul Jr. can work things out.

Bigray in Ok

[Jersey Boss]

He never said so, but as I've said, he did comment on the other employees slacking off. He never mentioned pay on the show or off, to my knowledge. You're leaving out the part of SR's quote where he said, "I've seen a number of GOOD employees come and go. They can be replaced." Did you ever see SR. twisting off on Vinnie? No, because he was a grown man who did his job, unlike SR's two brats. Vinnie started his own shop before tossing in with Jr. For all we know, his shop wasn't doing too well. There's a lot of assumption going on here.

V-Force website seems to confirm that Vinnie is still in businesss there as well. Just sayin'.

[MattB]

And you dont think that all the petty arguments and senseless drama was what the producers asked them to display for the show?!?!

No, I don't. These guys build choppers, not act. I suspect they couldn't act their way out of a wet paper bag. After the first "tiff" was filmed and recorded, SR. was reportedly furious with producers about airing the "dirty laundry. He calmed down when they told him that show scored highest ratings ever for one of Discovery's shows. Secondly, the lawsuit is real. The courts would frown upon a "fake" suit filed to boost ratings.

[MattB]

I saw Paul Sr. go off on Vinnie on one episode where Vinnie was highly upset. Paul Sr. later apologized to Vinnie. It is my understanding there was bad blood between Paul Sr. and Vinnie after Vinnie left. Do we really know that Paul Jr. had a bad work ethic, or is that just the impression we get from his father's tirades? The bikes Paul Jr, worked on were custom bikes that went anywhere from $150,000 to $1,000,000. He designed them and did a lot of the work on them. How do we know when he showed up late because he had to go to the dentist that he did not make up for it later? From what I saw on the show, Paul Jr. did good work. It always bothered me that Paul Sr. rode Jr. hard, yet laughed at everything Mikey did. I am still trying to figure out what Mikey's role was in the shop other than answering the phone and providing comedy relief.

By the way, does everyone realize that the bodies for the bikes came from Oklahoma City until the past few years? Vinnie and Rick appeared at the Thunder Cycles place on Memorial Road to sign autographs when it opened as a result of that connection. I watched American Chopper regularly the first few years it was on then started to lose interest the last year. I have seen the new show a couple of times and hope Paul Sr. and Paul Jr. can work things out.

Bigray in Ok

The times when SR. went off on other employees were the exception, and not the norm. We DO know that JR. was regularly late, and left for personal reasons. Sr. never let any of these incidents go, and when he confronted JR about them, he never denied being late, but rather offered up excuses. I remember at least one episode wherein Vinnie is vocally complaining about Jr. having left for a haircut, after we see JR. ON CAMERA saying that he's LEAVING FOR A HAIRCUT. Same thing with the leaving for the real estate closings. Not only does JR announce that he has to close on a house, but the film crew follows him on those real estate jaunts.
Whether or not he stays late is immaterial when the boss demands that he shows up on time. It often left the rest of the crew afraid or unable to proceed without JR's input.
As to your statement regarding Mikey, I wholly agree. His only function seemed to be to convert oxygen to carbon dioxide.
While the frames were made for a time in Oklahoma, I don't think it was Oklahoma City.

[Jersey Boss]

So who's "Caddy" bike do you prefer, OCC's or PJD's?

[MattB]

Got them DVR'd, was watching the beginning episode last night when the wife vetoed my selection. I'll have to catch it later.

[justinm]

I liked PJD's a little better. I loved the rear end and the no kick stand look.

[Jersey Boss]

I liked PJD's a little better. I loved the rear end and the no kick stand look.

We aren't the only ones. Check out the bids at the auction.

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/american...r-auction.html

[Wambo36]

I thought both were really nice bikes but, for what they were supposed to represent(the Cadillac), juniors was pretty superior. I just wish he would have taken Nubs advice and used the pearl white.

[dmoor82]

Man this is a tough call,both look Awesome and are both very impressive!Sr's is hands down way faster and shoots NOS but Jr's is just Sick and I like the no kick stand air bags soooooo..... I choose PJD!