Waldenbooks @ Penn Square Mall is Leaving....

[betts]

I'm not sure I'd call Forever 21 upscale, but it knocks off a lot of upscale clothing. My daughters like it for trendier things that they know they won't want to wear in a few years and thus they'd rather not spend a lot of money on them. It is wildly successful in Chicago, I know, as they've got a huge store on Michigan.

[soonerliberal]

I think the point many people are making is that there is no reason why Penn Square cannot have some really good stores that similar malls in similar cities have. Some of these stores are: Armani Exchange, Benetton, Espirit, H&M, Guess, Calvin Klein, Club Monaco, Lucky Jeans, Kenneth Cole, etc.

Long term, I really wish Penn Square would look to bring in Nordstrom to replace the JcPenney. I'm just not sure if they are looking to make their mall "great", rather than just good.

[Midtowner]

Nu Trendz is the other Crossroads-like store. They came in and replaced The Sharper Image (after they declared bankruptcy and went to online-only). From what I can tell, they just put curtain rods into the Sharper Image display cases, stuck in some floor racks and put up a cheap sign.

[remy11]

I think the main reason we haven't seen a Forever 21 in Penn Square yet is because I'm sure they want a space big enough to accommodate a full size store. The stores in Quail and Sooner are fairly reserved as far as size is concerned. A Forever 21 big enough to hold girls and guys stuff would be a great boost for Penn. I completely agree about Honey's Handbags and Nu Trendz. My main problem with Honey's Handbags is the mall can't seem to keep anything stable in that space. I'm not sure who all here frequents the mall but I believe it was this time last year, they had a men's "sexy" underwear store move in (they had a fashion show and everything) and then probably 3 months after they opened (if that), a pipe burst and ruined all of their merchandise. I'm just not sure what you could fit in that tiny space.

[MikeOKC]

I think the main reason we haven't seen a Forever 21 in Penn Square yet is because I'm sure they want a space big enough to accommodate a full size store. The stores in Quail and Sooner are fairly reserved as far as size is concerned. A Forever 21 big enough to hold girls and guys stuff would be a great boost for Penn. I completely agree about Honey's Handbags and Nu Trendz. My main problem with Honey's Handbags is the mall can't seem to keep anything stable in that space. I'm not sure who all here frequents the mall but I believe it was this time last year, they had a men's "sexy" underwear store move in (they had a fashion show and everything) and then probably 3 months after they opened (if that), a pipe burst and ruined all of their merchandise. I'm just not sure what you could fit in that tiny space.

Excuse the pun?

That spot has been a problem at Penn Square. All in all though, I think Simon does a great job with Penn.

[remy11]

ha unintended.

but yes, I agree they do a great job (especially recently)... those two stores are really the only sore spots that I can think of.

This is classified info and kind of off topic but I can speak with authority that there are about to be two open spaces at Quail in mid January. One being a very large one (Well not huge but a large space)

[Patrick]

I think the main reason we haven't seen a Forever 21 in Penn Square yet is because I'm sure they want a space big enough to accommodate a full size store. The stores in Quail and Sooner are fairly reserved as far as size is concerned. A Forever 21 big enough to hold girls and guys stuff would be a great boost for Penn.

In the end, Penn Square is just limited by space. They're on a pretty small land-locked lot, with little to no room to expand. They do have over 1 million square feet of space, but that's not a lot when you're talking about bringing in high end retailers and creating a "Galleria-type" mall. They'd need over 2 million square feet to create something like that. Stores like Forever 21, Restoration Hardware, and Anthropologie require a lot of space, so often it's simply waiting for other leases to expire to create a large enough space to house these stores. Plus, this is Oklahoma City, and it is a traditional mall, so they have to balance out the types of stores they offer, with some high end national retailers as well as traditional mall stores like Gap and American Eagle. I think they do a pretty good job with the tenant mix, considering the space they have to work with.

I completely agree about Honey's Handbags and Nu Trendz. My main problem with Honey's Handbags is the mall can't seem to keep anything stable in that space. I'm not sure who all here frequents the mall but I believe it was this time last year, they had a men's "sexy" underwear store move in (they had a fashion show and everything) and then probably 3 months after they opened (if that), a pipe burst and ruined all of their merchandise. I'm just not sure what you could fit in that tiny space.

Nue Trendz is just a temporary space while they negotiate a permanent replacement for that space. All malls fill empty spaces with temporary tenants to make money until they can replace them with permanent leases. General Growth does the same thing at Quail Springs. Many times it takes time to find just the right tenant for a certain space. It's not that there aren't tenants wanting to move into the mall, it's finding the right tenant for the space. I have no doubt that space will be filled with a permanent national retailer, as it is in a pretty prime location, but mall management doesn't want to rush into the wrong fit for the mall, and thus it takes time to market the space to just the right tenant.

In regards to Honey's Handbags, that's a tough space to market because it's so small. A lot of national retailers want larger spaces, and there simply isn't a lot of space in that location. If you haven't seen the location, it's probably about the size of your bathroom at home...seriously, it's not a large space.

[Patrick]

I think the point many people are making is that there is no reason why Penn Square cannot have some really good stores that similar malls in similar cities have. Some of these stores are: Armani Exchange, Benetton, Espirit, H&M, Guess, Calvin Klein, Club Monaco, Lucky Jeans, Kenneth Cole, etc.

Long term, I really wish Penn Square would look to bring in Nordstrom to replace the JcPenney. I'm just not sure if they are looking to make their mall "great", rather than just good.

Actually, I wouldn't have a problem with them keeping JC Penney. I'd rather they keep JC Penney and just add a 5th anchor space on the property by Pepperoni Grill. Ideally, it would be nice to see them both replace JC Penney and add a 5th anchor, but again I think they're limited by space. But, adding a 5th anchor to the west side of the mall, and just building another parking garage on the north side of the property would be do-able. I'd love to see them add two high end department stores like Nordstrom and either Nieman Marcus or Saks.

[Patrick]

I think the point many people are making is that there is no reason why Penn Square cannot have some really good stores that similar malls in similar cities have. Some of these stores are: Armani Exchange, Benetton, Espirit, H&M, Guess, Calvin Klein, Club Monaco, Lucky Jeans, Kenneth Cole, etc.

Long term, I really wish Penn Square would look to bring in Nordstrom to replace the JcPenney. I'm just not sure if they are looking to make their mall "great", rather than just good.

Most "great" malls are much larger than Penn Square. So that plays into the equation. If there was a way they could add a 3rd floor or double the size of the mall, that would be nice, but again they're limited by the property.

[sethsrott]

Where do you plan on putting this building addition? I think the mall is pretty limited with the small lot on which it currently sits. And, I don't know where another wing would go. They're pretty land-locked. The building won't support a 3rd floor. It would be cost-prohibitive to completely demolish the entire mall and rebuild a 3 level mall. I think they're stuck with the structure they have.

I would close some more of the black top, expand the parking garage, and then you could close more of the black top and expand another wing, or you could build a sky bridge and expand into 50 Penn Place, but since they said that retail is no long the focus I don't see that happening.

[Patrick]

I would close some more of the black top, expand the parking garage, and then you could close more of the black top and expand another wing, or you could build a sky bridge and expand into 50 Penn Place, but since they said that retail is no long the focus I don't see that happening.

The issue with 50 Penn was actually looked into. The main problem was that the owners of the property didn't want to sell the property to Simon. And also, the property is predominantly office space, and Simon is more in the business of retail. Secondly, the city wouldn't provide a permit to build over 6 lanes of traffic on NW Expressway. Even if they would, the logistics wouldn't work as the sky bridge would have to be higher than the current 2nd level of Penn Square.

Where do you plan on placing this new wing? The only space I could think of is expanding from the main front entrance. But there's not a lot of space from there to the end of the parking lot.

[Patrick]

For the record, some of the retailers being considered for the Nue Trendz space are Aerie by American Eagle, Oakley, Crazy 8 (Gymboree wants to expand with another offering - they may locate next door where Gap Kids is currently in a temporary space, and Gap Kids may locate in the Nue Trendz space), and Fossil.

[Soonerman]

I'm suprised Penn Square doesn't have Oakley. They do have a store at Woodland Hills in Tulsa.

[stdennis]

What about this for Expansion plans? Maybe make the new areas 3 stories or easy for future upward additions and after they add the 3rd story they move current tenets to the new expansion and then rebuild the rest of the mall as a three story mall. The western Dillard's has been extended to make up for the lost space on the 2nd floor, it should actually end up bigger and if they were to do this. The new anchor could be three stories but i don't know how well that would work. This would also require another parking garage. there are a couple options for this. First expanding the existing one all the way north and maybe in the new area adding underground parking or another level. Also somewhere east of macys. they could also do underground parking underneath the expansions.

[stdennis]

here is the original map for comparison

[bluedogok]

The issue with 50 Penn was actually looked into. The main problem was that the owners of the property didn't want to sell the property to Simon. And also, the property is predominantly office space, and Simon is more in the business of retail.

I can attest to the fact that Simon treats office space like retail since our offices are in the office portion of The Domain, many of their policies are directly from the mall world. Transwestern handles the leasing so it is a hybrid of mall and commercial office worlds, just a little odd at times. We do many of the designs for new offices there and I have started on a Midland Park Mall (Midland, Texas) remodel so we are getting well versed in the world which is Simon. Most of their newer developments are the lifestyle centers with retail, office and apartments like The Domain so Simon is very immersed in it but they do tend to team up with companies whose strengths lie in the commercial office and apartment worlds.

[MikeOKC]

I can attest to the fact that Simon treats office space like retail since our offices are in the office portion of The Domain, many of their policies are directly from the mall world. Transwestern handles the leasing so it is a hybrid of mall and commercial office worlds, just a little odd at times. We do many of the designs for new offices there and I have started on a Midland Park Mall (Midland, Texas) remodel so we are getting well versed in the world which is Simon. Most of their newer developments are the lifestyle centers with retail, office and apartments like The Domain so Simon is very immersed in it but they do tend to team up with companies whose strengths lie in the commercial office and apartment worlds.

Very true. In fact, Simon was all signed up, if you remember, for the I-35 Covell Lifestyle project. That would have been very, very nice. Too bad.

[z28james]

I like the made up maps for expansion and I want PSM to expand, but I am telling you it will never happen, you cant sacrifice that much parking. PSM would need to buy up some land or try and take 50 penn which wont happen.

And for the people who like to flame PSM, its a good mall, gets great foot traffic, the people who are managing it are really trying hard to make it better and although the security looks like Paul Blart they really care about the property. It has most stores that you would would see in a larger market mall. The mall is waiting for the "less desirable" stores leases to end, they are not going to kick out paid leases in this economy. Nu Trendz is an eyesore believe me, but until that lease is up they are staying.

[bluedogok]

Most landlocked malls who have expanded stores have had to build structured parking instead of using surface parking. The majority of the parking at The Domain here in Austin is structured parking, something like 70% of the spaces are structured parking. If new leases can justify the cost of new buildings and parking then Simon will do it. Not sure if they would do turnkey or build-to-suit anchors, I guess it just depends on the anchor.

[okclee]

There are much larger malls that have far less surface parking. Actually there are many larger malls that have strictly parking garages and no surface parking.

[stdennis]

Yeah the structured parking would have to be a requirement and probably a Phase 1. Expanding Dillards would be a phase 2. The rest of the mall would have to be the 3rd phase. I don't know how many malls have a loop layout and dont know how well it would work.

[ljbab728]

There are much larger malls that have far less surface parking. Actually there are many larger malls that have strictly parking garages and no surface parking.

The Beverly Center is a little smaller retail space than Penn Square with about 900,000 square feet and 160 stores but sits on top of a multi-story parking garage.

http://beverly-center.mallsite.us/gallery.html

[jdcf]

Reading this thread has reminded me that I was going to contact the Penn Square mall leasing office to complain about the gym. Has anyone else been annoyed while in Pottery Barn Kids and hearing the noise from the above gym? It yields quite a disgusting shopping environment. Just plain wrong!

[Soonerman]

I wonder if they did expand Dillard's. Would they close the East Dillard's? I was thinking maybe a Dick's Sporting Goods could go in that spot. Then again that space maybe too big for Dick's.

[metro]

Yeah why don we need two dillards