4 Oklahoma cities in Fortune's 100 Best Places to Live 2010

[mikesimpsons82]

or podunk backwaters in the case of Stillwater

Gotta love when the uneducated people chime in. Always makes for good entertainment. Does your boss know you left your fry station?

[onthestrip]

Well, the thing going against them is just the culture there. If you went to school in Norman like I did, Stillwater just has such a ... backwaters feel to it. OU students sometimes need to be reminded that they DO NOT go to school at SMU, so they should stop acting like it. OSU just feels much less cultured, much less happening, a lot less hip.. not to mention in appearance it is just more similar to UCO than OU. Very little landscaping, the "cool" area which is The Strip seemed to be geared towards rednecks and drunks, and less sense of place that you just get around OU.

I guess that's my explanation for the "huh?" comment I left next to Stillwater. I recognize that it is a great school with a huge list of prominent alumni, and that in terms of pride and tradition they are certainly on the same level as OU. I just don't think Stillwater feels like a nice college town, like Norman, Athens, Fayetteville, Lawrence, Boulder, etc. I think Stillwater seems to be thumbing their nose at those "hoity toity" places and probably prides themselves on being different from those kinds of places. That's great for them, but they lose points AND RESPECT in my book. That's just the way it is, a town that lacks good aesthetics is just an ugly town to me, and that's the way it is.

Its not surprising these remarks are from someone who went to OU. Does Stillwater have a backwater feel to it because its located away from OKC and Tulsa and has a large Ag college and because thats just what OU students who have never spent much time in Stillwater have to say about it? Is Stillwater a more laid back, tshirt and jeans kind of place? Probably, but that backwater stuff gets pretty old. Its simply not true. And your much less cultured comment is absurd. You have probably spent very little time in stillwater to even get a feel of its culture. Stillwater has produced some of Oklahomas best local bands over the years. Also, comparing OSUs campus to UCO is ridiculous. The Strip, I will admit, is lacking. Thats one thing that hasnt seemed to happen, quality development adjacent to campus. For years I have wished the city and college would get involved and help facilitate some near campus development.

It may just be me, but I see Norman less and less these days as a college town. The city has grown quite a bit over the years and doesnt have much of the college town atmosphere that it used to.

Being an OSU grad, visiting STW for games, and being a property owner there as well, I get upset when someone makes ill-informed negative comments about Stillwater and OSU mostly because they are Norman/OU fans and automatically want to hate all things having to do with orange, OSU, and Stilwater.

[PennyQuilts]

I have nothing against Stillwater, one of my favorite little local stores in the state is the Stillwater Summit Company. They have a very cool scene up there. But let's get real...it's the most isolated Big 12 college town and the only one that doesn't even have a small airport with commercial service, and Stillwater is not Edmond or Jenks..

Apparently they have Wal-Mart, I'm not sure what else they have. I'll bet the college is a good demographic for retailers though. Does anyone know if Stillwater capitalizes on the knowledge-based demographic for tech industries like Norman?

TWO Wal Marts!

[adaniel]

I recognize that it is a great school with a huge list of prominent alumni, and that in terms of pride and tradition they are certainly on the same level as OU. I just don't think Stillwater feels like a nice college town, like Norman, Athens, Fayetteville, Lawrence, Boulder, etc. I think Stillwater seems to be thumbing their nose at those "hoity toity" places and probably prides themselves on being different from those kinds of places.

I agree with your statement, but I think there's a couple of things to point out. All of those towns (with the exception of Ames, and I really think its up to personal interpretation on that one) are home to "hoity toity" state flagship schools. Its a completely different culture in, say Lawrence, than down the road in Manhattan, which is home to an ag school that is always competing for sloppy seconds to its big brother. So you aren't necessarily going to get the polished college town look in towns like Stillwater that are home to the A&Ms. Stillwater "is what it is". I wouldn't say the town's going out of its way to be "redneck". If you are from Enid, Woodward, Antlers, or some other town, you are probably completely out of your comfort zone going from that to, in your mind, some liberal, elitist place like Norman, although I personally never found that vibe there. Personally, towns like Stillwater are not my cup of tea, but I wouldn't expect people to go to a school where they are uncomfortable just because other towns "look" better.

Is Stillwater more connected to Tulsa or OKC? They are about the same distance apart (64 miles from downtown Stillwater to downtown OKC vs. 62 miles to downtown Tulsa) but I've always felt Tulsa seemed more connected to OSU with their Tulsa campus and OSU Medical Center.

Its been my experience that OSU is way more linked to Tulsa than OKC, despite the 405 area code and OKC TV stations. I'm typing in a hurry so you may have to look for yourself, but if you can find the OSU factbook online, you will see that Tulsa County sends something like double the number of students to OSU that OK County. Somewhere in the zone of 4200+ to 2000 respectively. It helps that undergrad credits can transfer easily from classes at OSU-Tulsa. Not to mention OSU is closer to Tulsa than OU.

When I was still at OU, it seemed the there was a good pocket of Tulsa kids, but there was a preppy element to them. A lot were from Cascia/Holland, or were the upper crust from South Tulsa. And they were overwhelmingly greek. At OSU, there's more Jenks/Union/BA kids, a more middle class feel overall.

Another way to look at it. When football season starts, the Oklahoman will have OU this, Sooners that, and OSU will largely be playing second fiddle in amount of stories. In the Tulsa World, it will largely be evenly divided, of course thats if you can get past the Jenks/Union HS dribble.

[Bunty]

Its been my experience that OSU is way more linked to Tulsa than OKC, despite the 405 area code and OKC TV stations.

Right, and if I'm right, OSU does not offer bus service to OKC like it does Tulsa. But due in large part to a 405 area code and OKC TV stations, I bet the townies feel a lot more linked to OKC than Tulsa. And for shopping purposes, they probably find Quail Springs in OKC to be closer than Woodland Hills in Tulsa as well as Penn Square closer than the Promenade Mall.

[Bunty]

Gotta love when the uneducated people chime in. Always makes for good entertainment. Does your boss know you left your fry station?

Uneducated? I thought it was about supposedly well educated people who think they are as well learned as they need to be in order to know how to look down upon Stillwater.

[Oil Capital]

Well, depends on what you value. This ranking is obviously much more intended for families than for creative class, and yeah, just about the only state with more ranked cities per capita on here is probably Utah and North Dakota.

and Connecticut and Idaho.

To be clear, this list purports only to be the 100 best places to live among small cities.

[Spartan]

Its not surprising these remarks are from someone who went to OU. Does Stillwater have a backwater feel to it because its located away from OKC and Tulsa and has a large Ag college and because thats just what OU students who have never spent much time in Stillwater have to say about it? Is Stillwater a more laid back, tshirt and jeans kind of place? Probably, but that backwater stuff gets pretty old. Its simply not true. And your much less cultured comment is absurd. You have probably spent very little time in stillwater to even get a feel of its culture. Stillwater has produced some of Oklahomas best local bands over the years. Also, comparing OSUs campus to UCO is ridiculous. The Strip, I will admit, is lacking. Thats one thing that hasnt seemed to happen, quality development adjacent to campus. For years I have wished the city and college would get involved and help facilitate some near campus development.

It may just be me, but I see Norman less and less these days as a college town. The city has grown quite a bit over the years and doesnt have much of the college town atmosphere that it used to.

Being an OSU grad, visiting STW for games, and being a property owner there as well, I get upset when someone makes ill-informed negative comments about Stillwater and OSU mostly because they are Norman/OU fans and automatically want to hate all things having to do with orange, OSU, and Stilwater.

Well it appears that when you cut through the name-calling, get right to the issue, that despite our opposite perspectives on this..we agree on the ultimate question. Stillwater is a very lacking town in the aesthetic/development areas. Doesn't mean it's not a place that's produced cool stuff, that is home of a great college--it just means they don't seem to mind that their city looks rundown and dried up. I am certain that you would word that differently, but that's how I feel about Stillwater, based on my experiences there, compared to what I've seen in other college towns.

[onthestrip]

Well it appears that when you cut through the name-calling, get right to the issue, that despite our opposite perspectives on this..we agree on the ultimate question. Stillwater is a very lacking town in the aesthetic/development areas. Doesn't mean it's not a place that's produced cool stuff, that is home of a great college--it just means they don't seem to mind that their city looks rundown and dried up. I am certain that you would word that differently, but that's how I feel about Stillwater, based on my experiences there, compared to what I've seen in other college towns.

I say that only about near campus development. You obviously havent been to Stillwater lately. IF you were to drive through you would see plenty of new stuff, on campus, commercial development off campus and even recent projects done at the high school. Hell, there has to be lots of new stuff when a city is the fastest growing in the state a few years back. There has been hundreds of millions of dollars in new construction in the last decade. Not much I see is rundown or dried up.

[SOONER8693]

Its not surprising these remarks are from someone who went to OU. Does Stillwater have a backwater feel to it because its located away from OKC and Tulsa and has a large Ag college and because thats just what OU students who have never spent much time in Stillwater have to say about it? Is Stillwater a more laid back, tshirt and jeans kind of place? Probably, but that backwater stuff gets pretty old. Its simply not true. And your much less cultured comment is absurd. You have probably spent very little time in stillwater to even get a feel of its culture. Stillwater has produced some of Oklahomas best local bands over the years. Also, comparing OSUs campus to UCO is ridiculous. The Strip, I will admit, is lacking. Thats one thing that hasnt seemed to happen, quality development adjacent to campus. For years I have wished the city and college would get involved and help facilitate some near campus development.

It may just be me, but I see Norman less and less these days as a college town. The city has grown quite a bit over the years and doesnt have much of the college town atmosphere that it used to.

Being an OSU grad, visiting STW for games, and being a property owner there as well, I get upset when someone makes ill-informed negative comments about Stillwater and OSU mostly because they are Norman/OU fans and automatically want to hate all things having to do with orange, OSU, and Stilwater.

That automatic hate is just as strong or stronger from OSU/Stillwater folk to Norman/OU. So, don't go all high and mighty on us here.

[Bunty]

That automatic hate is just as strong or stronger from OSU/Stillwater folk to Norman/OU. So, don't go all high and mighty on us here.

What hate? I didn't sense any. I surprised there's not more interest in defending Norman from being ranked lower than Stillwater and Edmond.

[ljbab728]

Columbia, MO, from being in the middle of Missouri, is also over a 100 miles away from large metro areas.

Columbia actually does have scheduled passenger air service.

[ljbab728]

I don't know if it is still this way but when I was in college a million years ago I stayed the summers and worked in downtown Norman. On Friday evenings the mental hospital used to release a number of patients to roam the area for the weekend. Sunday evening they were all supposed to head back to the hospital. The point is, if this is still the practice, downtown Norman may have an inordinate number of transient, homeless types that could detract from it's quality of life.

I grew up in Norman and lived there until the late sixties and never heard about this. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just never knew about it if it did. Regardless, they wouldn't be transient, homeless types. They would be patients at the hospital and likely not problems patients or they wouldn't be allowed to roam around.

[Spartan]

I say that only about near campus development. You obviously havent been to Stillwater lately. IF you were to drive through you would see plenty of new stuff, on campus, commercial development off campus and even recent projects done at the high school. Hell, there has to be lots of new stuff when a city is the fastest growing in the state a few years back. There has been hundreds of millions of dollars in new construction in the last decade. Not much I see is rundown or dried up.

Okay, I'll agree with you...there are some very nice areas of Stillwater out on the edge of town. Not that anyone except the people living in those additions really care about those areas.. why don't people in Stillwater try and improve areas of town that are closer-in?

[Bunty]

Columbia actually does have scheduled passenger air service.

While a great sounding advantage, it didn't impress Money and their criteria much, because Columbia didn't make it in the top 100. Here was the criteria:

How we picked the Best Places to Live
Using statistics from data services company Onboard Informatics, we crunched the numbers in order to zero in on America's best small cities for families. (Last year, we looked at small towns, with populations between 8,500 and 50,000.) Here's how:

746
Start with all U.S. cities with a population of 50,000 to 300,000.

555
Exclude places where the median family income is more than 200% or less than 85% of the state median and those more than 95% white.

322
Screen out retirement communities, towns with significant job loss, and those with poor education and crime scores. Rank remaining places based on housing affordability, school quality, arts and leisure, safety, health care, diversity, and several ease-of-living criteria.

100
Factor in additional data on the economy (including fiscal strength of the government), jobs, housing, and schools. Weight economic factors most heavily.

30
Visit towns and interview residents, assessing traffic, parks, and gathering places and considering intangibles like community spirit.

1
Select the winner based on the data and reporting.

[PennyQuilts]

Okay, I'll agree with you...there are some very nice areas of Stillwater out on the edge of town. Not that anyone except the people living in those additions really care about those areas.. why don't people in Stillwater try and improve areas of town that are closer-in?

Are some of the closer in houses rentals?

[Andrew4OU]

Multiple BCS chokes?

Right! By multiple you mean one, seeing there were only two years in between 2008 and 2010.

[Spartan]

Yeah, if you listen to some of these Okie State and Whorn fans, you'd think that OU had a BCS choke every other week or something.

[Bunty]

Are some of the closer in houses rentals?

Probably nearly all of them. Don't think a couple with children would want to buy to live near the strip and wonder if late night rowdiness and urinating in yards could get worse if the minimum drinking age goes back to 18. Probably other colleges that Spartan admires better have attractive professor type neighborhoods adjacent to campus, which Stillwater lacks.

[Bunty]

The Strip, I will admit, is lacking. Thats one thing that hasnt seemed to happen, quality development adjacent to campus. For years I have wished the city and college would get involved and help facilitate some near campus development.

It simply reflects OSU college students don't have much money left to spend after expenses, except perhaps for beer, which must be why so many business establishments near campus are bars and why there is a plasma center in place, rather than an Abercrombie, to possibly help provide yet more beer money. I bet the few college students that have money would far rather spend it in OKC, Tulsa, or Dallas.

The city and college have already done something to make that area more attractive for business and residential development by nicely redoing University Ave. It's up to private business to see if OSU students want more than beer, or to get them to buy something other than beer. I already know many OSU students aren't old enough to buy beer, but who knows how many go around the law.

[jc123]

Tahlequah is a town to watch in the next five to ten years.