MBG Restaurant & Cafe - OPINIONS WANTED

[metro]

Go with the best Shake Shack...
Shake Shack

Ding, Ding, Ding, this would be a huge land for OKC. Most Oklahoman's probably dont' even know what Shake Shack is. It's not too "national" either, they only have locations in NYC and Miami. People wait hours for their food in NYC. The stores even have webcams set up on line so you can check out the line before going. We don't have NYC population/tourism, so I don't think we'd have to contend for near as long lines here.

Gardens make me think of light food. Salads, perhaps California Pizza kitchen type pizzas, a few sandwiches (Wild Fork in Tulsa has a great prime rib sandwich on french bread with grilled onions and cheese), smoothies, flavored teas.

Dress code: If you want tourists, you can't be too picky about dress. I'd say casual, i.e. shirt and shoes required.

Hours: Lunch, Sunday brunch. Dinner would be nice, but not necessary.

Yes, a limited menu for large night events is an excellent idea

Restaurants that would work: I think it should be local, not a chain, although as I suggested, California Pizza kitchen has the type of menu I envision. I'd get someone from the Good Egg group to run it if you could interest them. Actually, Cheevers would be awesome in that location.

Totally agree, casual dress code, and prefer Good Egg Group to manage a new concept if interested.

The restaurants at the downtown library and state museum are locally owned.
Not impressed. Should ownership trump quality as the determining factor? Not saying you should go for an average chain restaurant.
But if you were to get Shake Shack interested and turned it down out of hand in favor of an untested local, I'll be totally bewildered.

Steve, I think for the most part we agree on local/national, but in this case I think it just makes sense to have one of each. The national for a draw/brand awareness and the local to give a sense of local flavor/talent. We'd be stupid to turn down Shake Shack.

I have to say, Steve is right on with the Shake Shack. Coolest thing in lower Manhattan. A couple of years ago I was there on business around lunch time and happened to walk by Madison Square Park and couldn't understand why so many people were lined up (and it's not a big park by Manhattan standards).

I still haven't eaten the food but I've read about it and saw a nice bit on the Food Channel about it. Unbelievable hamburgers and fries.

If OKC could get a location, it would be extremely hip.

Exactly. People would drive from surrounding states to eat her on occasion, similar to how many Oklahomans drive to Dallas to shop/eat at certain places. I'd also welcome a 5 Guys Burgers, mmmmmmmm.

[PokeFromOk]

Discovery green in Houston has a perfect example to follow. It is an outdoor cafe and would be a great place to get some ideas. Take a look at the link.



The Lake House | WATERSIDE CAFE / DISCOVERY GREEN

[soonerguru]

I've never eaten their frozen food, but I like their restaurants. The only reason I would ever consider it as an option for the Garden restaurant is if they only had chains as an option. It's a far better option than most of the chains that come to mind.

I agree completely that we should try to go local. No barbecue, however, if we put a local Okie spin to it. I don't think the decor or food should in any way be western. I'd like it to be urban in feel. Or, if they want something with a more traditional feel, although it's gone, Tavern on the Green is a nice model.

Oh, God, you're right. No Earl's Rib Palace (as much as I do like it)! Also, no Hal Smith Restaurants!

[stlokc]

St. Louis recently debuted a cool little urban park, includes a cafe called Terrace View. I don't know if this is more upscale than what is being considered in OKC, but it's a nice spot:

Citygarden - An urban oasis in downtown St. Louis

Would something like this work?

[Urban Pioneer]

Republic2 at MBG

I couldn't agree more. What a great concept!

[onthestrip]

A. Although Shake Shack would be incredible, it will never happen. Plus, whatever goes next to MBG needs to have some indoor dining, Shake Shack is just a kitchen with a walkup window.

B. Needs to be fast casual and needs to have covered patio area along with indoor dining.

C. I just dont see the big appeal of California Pizza Kitchen


The Shake Shack did get me thinking about ballpark/arena food. Danny Meyers, the guy behind Shake and several other great restaurants was contracted to put some of his concepts including Shake at the NY Mets Citi Field. I remember hearing the Ford Center was having GEG put in an Iron Starr at the arena (next year?) but it would be great if they contracted with them to do other food stands in the arena.

[Steve]

Onthestrip, why don't you just go ahead and tell me there's no Santa Claus either?

[onthestrip]

And no tooth fairy either.

But you cant really expect them to open a shack in OKC can you? They have only recently opened one outside of NYC. Never has there been a store that only had locations in NYC, MIA, and OKC.

[soonerguru]

And no tooth fairy either.

But you cant really expect them to open a shack in OKC can you? They have only recently opened one outside of NYC. Never has there been a store that only had locations in NYC, MIA, and OKC.

Dream big! There's a first time for everything.

[Platemaker]

A. Although Shake Shack would be incredible, it will never happen. Plus, whatever goes next to MBG needs to have some indoor dining, Shake Shack is just a kitchen with a walkup window.

B. Needs to be fast casual and needs to have covered patio area along with indoor dining.

C. I just dont see the big appeal of California Pizza Kitchen

There are two dining option being put in the MBG... a restaurant and a cafe.

PS.... couldn't agree more with you on # C.

[FritterGirl]

St. Louis recently debuted a cool little urban park, includes a cafe called Terrace View. I don't know if this is more upscale than what is being considered in OKC, but it's a nice spot:

Citygarden - An urban oasis in downtown St. Louis

Would something like this work?

I don't know, but I do like the look of CityGarden in general. Great space!

I'll be sharing all of this info with the consultants as we work through the process.

Some interesting options. Please keep 'em coming.

[phinzup]

Doesn't matter to me.....they could put a McDonalds in there for all I care. I have never been to the Myriad Gardens, and I will never go there. What an abomination to tear down the buildings that used to be there, just to build a plastic tube with a bunch of plants inside.

[Steve]

phinzup, do you know what buildings were torn down to make way for the Gardens? Most of that area was pretty much blighted - not the classic buildings many of us mourn. The only exceptions - the Biltmore and Tivoli - were pretty much forced on the city to include in clearance. Planners of the gardens envisioned the hotels being incorporated into the park.
Visit I.M. Pei OKC | Resurrecting the Model | May 2010 to learn more...

[jbrown84]

I'd be okay with the cafe being a chain, but would prefer something exclusive to OKC. I picture the cafes in parks like Battery Park and Herald Square in NYC. I don't think it necessarily needs to have a name, other than Garden Cafe or something of the sort. Also, I don't think it should serve alcohol. I'm sure if it's a walk-up setup, it couldn't anyway.



Actually, a local place that's well run and has excellent food that would fit perfect there is CRAVE, currently located in Leadership Square. About Crave



The restaurant I definitely think should be local. Getting Good Egg to run it is a perfect idea.

Aren't we all guilty at one time or another of going to a strange city and seeing a TGIFriday's (just an example) and walking in because we know what to expect, wide variety of food and we feel we know it - no matter where it is? Like I said, it's in our "comfort zone." Right now, downtown needs some restaurants that tourists and natives alike can feel comfortable knowing what they're getting. That's the advantage of a chain, and if it's locally-owned, the money still stays here.

I understand where you're coming from, and I'd be okay with a couple more recognizable national chains in Bricktown or preferably the CBD, I don't think the exclusive MBG restaurant should be a chain. I'm thinking more like the Bryant Park Grill, only with a better reputation. (those of you who've been to NYC probably know what I mean ) Bryant Park Grill

The restaurant can be a little more upscale. It may not attract your typical Thunder fan, but it would still do well. If La Baguette is packed on Game Nights (it is), then a Bryant Park Grill-type place would as well.

Another good example is the Boathouse Restaurant in Central Park. It has a very nice restaurant inside, but also a walk up window. Not sure if that works in the case though, because the walk-up would be too much like the cafe.

But if you were to get Shake Shack interested and turned it down out of hand in favor of an untested local, I'll be totally bewildered.

I definitely don't think it should go to someone "untested". I'd say Hal Smith (maybe), Deep Fork Group, or preferably Good Egg.

Steve, you don't like the Art Museum Cafe? I think it's excellent. I've never eaten at the library.

State Musuem Betts. Not the Art Museum Cafe.

True, but still a good point by betts. The Museum Cafe has a very fine reputation when it could easily have been a forgettable operation. You don't typically go out of your way to eat at a restaurant in a museum, but people do that with the Museum Cafe.

Plus, whatever goes next to MBG needs to have some indoor dining, Shake Shack is just a kitchen with a walkup window.

I disagree. That's why we have both a cafe and a restaurant. The cafe is more casual and could just be a walk-up.

[soonerguru]

NO HAL SMITH! His restaurants are really lame (with the exception of Redrock). Louie's is garbage. Mama Roja's = lame.

[lasomeday]

For the cafe how about a place like Big Truck Tacos? It could be fast for the downtown workers, trendy for the downtown residence, and fun for the tourists.


The restaurant should have a world renowned chef that will attract tourists!

Maybe an Emeril's or Bobby Flay restaurant! I would go there for all my special dinners.

[Larry OKC]

duplicate post

[Larry OKC]

NO HAL SMITH! His restaurants are really lame (with the exception of Redrock). Louie's is garbage. Mama Roja's = lame.

not sure about other restaurants owned by them but I respectfully disagree with the Mama Roja's comment. Very nice decor and the food was definitely a cut above what typically passes for Tex-Mex here in OKC.

[Larry OKC]

At least for the Cafe, maybe something that would expand/compliment the Festival of the Arts concept (both in decor/food)

[Larry OKC]

phinzup, do you know what buildings were torn down to make way for the Gardens? Most of that area was pretty much blighted - not the classic buildings many of us mourn. The only exceptions - the Biltmore and Tivoli - were pretty much forced on the city to include in clearance. Planners of the gardens envisioned the hotels being incorporated into the park.
Visit I.M. Pei OKC | Resurrecting the Model | May 2010 to learn more...

Steve, did see it in the link but who "forced on the City" to remove? As you said, original plans included them, so what changed? Who do we have to blame? Couldn't the MG have been put in another location that may may been even more blighted (with no "worthy" buildings)?

[Spartan]

Hey FritterGirl, that's awesome that you're taking a leadership role in the planning of the new restaurant at the Myriad Gardens. I'm a design student out of state and I operate a downtown-oriented blog at downtownontherange.blogspot.com that gets interesting sometimes and I've theorized a lot on opportunities for new restaurants here and there.. basically, I just have a few interesting points I wanted to give you:

First to answer your questions:

1. The cafe: Focus on desert and snack items. Gourmet pretzels maybe. Gelatto ice cream. Chocolate-covered items, maybe just sell items that people can dip in a chocolate fountain themselves. If you have to bring a national chain in, maybe a Panera or Atlanta Bread Co... they sell good coffee drinks and I can't think of a national coffee chain (in the south) that has decent food items. In an ideal world you would develop something like an OKC version of Cafe Plaid in Nompton which is by far the best cafe in Central Oklahoma. Great coffee offerings, great cafe food too. There aren't many national chains with that kind of mix, but if there are, then go for it I guess.

2. The restaurant: I think that there are two ways to go with the type of restaurant, one would be something like an upscale Okie-themed restaurant that plays up local elements, directed toward tourists, and two would be a restaurant that is just so unique and different and colorful that would be more directed toward residents who would need something different to draw them.

(A) The first example should be similar to the restaurant that's in the basement of the Clinton Library in Little Rock, which I didn't even know about until I visited and smelled bacon, and following my nose, came upon a great restaurant. There the restaurant looked like an incredibly classy southern restaurant with a huge emphasis on the porch, where most of the nicer tables were. In the south we love our porches. The menu was very Arkansas, and Clinton-themed (aka guaranteed to give you a heart attack..under appetizers they had mini burgers and the waiter was knowledgeable about every heart attack Clinton has ever had). IF we have to do a typical touristy restaurant, let's do something like this (here's their website). And it's actually a really affordable restaurant, too.


This patio area is actually a widely acclaimed space that is supposed to represent the merging of "old Arkansas" and "new Arkansas." The Clinton Library itself is supposed to resemble a "bridge to the future" (or in my opinion, a modern double-wide trailer home) and they chose the design because of the awesome rusted-out railroad bridge that crosses the Arkansas River in front of the library site, which they kept and highlighted as a "bridge to the past." It's a really, really cool concept in my opinion. I had a GREAT time at the library..best presidential library in the nation, or the south at least.

(B) The second example would be a lot easier to explain but a lot more complicated in concept. A restaurant located in a park away from a typical restaurant row needs to be extremely unique and different in order to attract locals who are more likely to go to Bricktown or MidTown for the mundane. In order to be successful this restaurant should be something so unexpected and unique in OKC, like maybe an Argentinan steakhouse (mmmm), or a real German restaurant like Old Bavaria on Sooner Rd with a brewery in the front, or a Norwegian seafood restaurant, or something like that! Something different, colorful, and way out of the norm. People would go to that in a park, whereas they might not on Memorial Rd or even in MidTown. It's sort of a scissors scenario between being "out there" and being accessible..the less accessible a restaurant is, the more "out there" it needs to be to draw locals.

As for a national coffee house locating in the park, I also think that's an awesome idea. I am a big believer and advocate in local businesses, don't get me wrong, but in some instances you do need a base of nationally recognized brands..they are important as a pedestal you can build on. The problem with downtown coffee houses is that downtown has yet to be established as a fertile market for locally owned coffee houses, so we actually NEED to get more chains in to help "open" the area up more to coffee shops, regardless of how much Starbucks sucks in my opinion. On my blog (link to one of the posts here) I've talked a lot about the need to get the nationally recognized brands in downtown for the good of the local shops that would hopefully be the focus of our end result. And yes, it's TRUE that a small number of local businesses actually DO carry a strong enough local reputation that they could fill the part here, BUT as far as restaurants go, all good OKC restaurants in my opinion should stay where they are. Except Cafe Pranzo, they need a more visible space. Maybe that would work, idk if they're interesting in moving though. I recommend Cafe Pranzo mostly not because their menu is incredibly unique but because when I think of locally well-established restaurants possibly in need of a better space, they come to mind first.

In short: 1, unique menu; 2, "recommended" dress code..business casual (just collared shirts maybe), keep in mind it's in a park; 3, hours of operation cater to downtown events and the brunch crowd; 4, two specific concepts I recommended was 42 Restaurant in Little Rock or maybe relocating Cafe Pranzo here; 5, again, it's gotta be different..not going to eat at a park-setting restaurant that's just a burger joint, I'm too partial to McNellie's and Irma's.

____________

My own concerns are access. The type of access that the restaurant and cafe would have would greatly change the type of joint we should see there, and I would certainly hope that the restaurant has easy access that you don't have to walk all the way through the park for. (on that note, it kinda makes me wish that in the new landscaping schemes they had included a meandering one-way lane for automobile traffic to just experience the park as well...)

[onthestrip]

I disagree. That's why we have both a cafe and a restaurant. The cafe is more casual and could just be a walk-up.

Yea, ok. You go ahead and be the only customer in the months of July, august, December, January, and February. Our weather just doesnt permit something like this.

[jbrown84]

I don't think the restaurant needs a "theme" or a hook. It just needs to be a good restaurant. The hook is that you are dining in the Gardens. Museum Cafe is more off the beaten path than perhaps any restaurant downtown and is still a huge draw.

This would easily be the best restaurant patio in town, with the only real competition from Red Rock at Lake Hefner.

Yea, ok. You go ahead and be the only customer in the months of July, august, December, January, and February. Our weather just doesnt permit something like this.

Because the weather is so much warmer in NYC??

[Spartan]

And summers are much worse here than in Houston, Dallas..

[metro]

Please no Hal Smith restaurants and two, why are we talking about Museum Cafe, sure they have good food, but are rarely busy. Every time I've eaten there it's been 3/4 empty and also when I walk/drive by all the time, it's half empty.