OKC/Will Rogers Air Service Discussion

[OUman]

^I have my doubts about the Florida service, especially Tampa flights, but we'll see how it goes. And it's not just OKC WN is adding DEN service to, it's a whole plethora of airports, including several new ones. WN is expanding at DEN like it did at PHL in its early phase of expansion there. TUL gets an additional daily as well so both, OKC and TUL get three dailies from/to DEN.

[venture]

The biggest thing for Frontier to do is advertise. I don't think any local media picked up on the story yet. There is a market to Florida, but so far any previous attempts have failed. Speculation that Frontier might match the service out of Tulsa is what has me worried. If they do that, both services are doomed. I don't understand why so many airlines duplicate services at both. If Tulsan's want to fly to Florida nonstop, they can drive down to OKC or to another airport.

In other news, Delta will be eliminating a flight to Cincinnati in January. Taking it down to 1 flight a day, and will more than likely be completely out of the OKC-CVG market by mid-next year. It does appear they are going to bump Detroit up to 2 a day, so that will offset this loss.

[chrisok]

^^^

To Frontier's credit, they dropped service to Tulsa for over a year while maintaining a strong presence in OKC. Only recently did they even bring service back to TUL.

[OUman]

The biggest thing for Frontier to do is advertise. I don't think any local media picked up on the story yet. There is a market to Florida, but so far any previous attempts have failed. Speculation that Frontier might match the service out of Tulsa is what has me worried. If they do that, both services are doomed. I don't understand why so many airlines duplicate services at both. If Tulsan's want to fly to Florida nonstop, they can drive down to OKC or to another airport.

In other news, Delta will be eliminating a flight to Cincinnati in January. Taking it down to 1 flight a day, and will more than likely be completely out of the OKC-CVG market by mid-next year. It does appear they are going to bump Detroit up to 2 a day, so that will offset this loss.

You're right about the markets but the more I think about it, the more I get the feeling that at least to some extent, having similar sized metro areas and so on, the top destinations (not served) are also similar that when a carrier looks at connecting one city to a new destination, it also adds the same to the other city. Both cities want more nonstops to both coasts but both are far enough to where most people won't drive 100 miles every time they want to go somewhere their airport doesn't have service to (..."well Tulsa is a large enough city, why doesn't it have nonstops there?"). Also note that XNA (NW Arkansas regional) also has better connectivity than TUL when looked at eastern/western U.S. connectivity. I have feeling that if and when UAX finally adds nonstops between OKC and SFO, TUL will not be far down the road... The air servce demographics are too similar and that's what ends up happening all the time. Then again I may be off on that but just my thinking.

[mugofbeer]

The biggest thing for Frontier to do is advertise. I don't think any local media picked up on the story yet. There is a market to Florida, but so far any previous attempts have failed. Speculation that Frontier might match the service out of Tulsa is what has me worried. If they do that, both services are doomed. I don't understand why so many airlines duplicate services at both. If Tulsan's want to fly to Florida nonstop, they can drive down to OKC or to another airport.

I agree. Frontier has an excellent add campaign with the talking animals that are on the tails of their planes. They are a part of Denver television just as BC Clarks is in OKC at Christmas. Their adds would catch on quickly in any market they are shown.

[venture]

Haven't posted this in a while, so wanted to get back to it. The O&D data for OKC is available up through the 2nd quarter of this year. Some interesting things to consider, especially when planning travel on just who is REALLY the low fare airline leader on a route.

http://www.anvilcrawlers.com/other/okc2009q2.html

Some highlights...
- With the addition of new nonstops to Orlando, OKC will have nonstop service to its top 13 markets. Tampa is market #21.
- Top 25 markets (which also have at least 92 passengers per day) not served: San Diego (#14), San Antonio (#16), Seattle (#17), Austin (#18), Fort Lauderdale (#19), San Francisco (#20), New Orleans (#22), Sacramento (#23), and Philadelphia (#24).
- Five cities have average fares over $300 from OKC: Indio/Palm Springs CA ($320), Cincinnati ($318), Charleston SC ($317), Columbia SC ($316), and Atlanta ($316).
- Five cities have average fares under $150 from OKC: Kansas City ($111), Dallas/Ft Worth ($119), Denver ($129), St. Louis ($131), and Austin ($135).
- The cheapest city to fly to: Denver on Frontier at $105. Frontier has a 26% market share on the route, compared to Southwest at 35% as the largest on the route. United is in between somewhere but isn't reported.
- Routes with one airline controlling at least 80% of all passengers: Kansas City (Southwest - 98%), Harlingen TX (Southwest - 97%), Omaha (American - 91%), Midland/Odessa (Southwest - 88%), Lubbock (Southwest - 85%), Corpus Christi (Southwest - 84%), and Houston (Southwest - 81%). Interesting to note, the airline with the largest market share is not the low fare leader on 3 of those routes: Harlingen - Continental is $19 cheaper, Omaha - United is $70 cheaper, and Lubbock - American is $7 cheaper.

Who offers the lowest fares to what cities?

American: Atlanta, Birmingham (AL), Boston, Charleston (SC), Colorado Springs, Ft Myers, Glendale (CA), Indio/Palm Springs (CA), Lubbock, Madison, Memphis, Minneapolis, New York, Phoenix, Reno, Richmond, St. Louis, Tuscon, and Washington.

Continental: Baton Rouge, Fort Lauderdale, Harlingen, New Orleans, Ontario (CA), Orlando, San Diego, San Francisco, San Jose, Santa Ana (CA), Tampa, and West Palm Beach.

Delta: Buffalo, Cincinnati, and Miami.

Frontier: Albuquerque, Boise, Denver, Portland (OR), Sacramento, Salt Lake City, Seattle, and Spokane.

Northwest: Charlotte, Cleveland, Columbus (OH), Des Moines, Detroit, Greenville, Harrisburg, Indianapolis, Knoxville, Louisville, Milwaukee, Nashville, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Raleigh/Durham, and Valparaiso (FL).

United: Columbia (SC), Dayton, Hartford, Las Vegas, Manchester (NH), Oakland, Omaha, and Providence.

Southwest: Albany, Austin, Baltimore, Chicago, Corpus Christi, Dallas/Fort Worth, El Paso, Houston, Jackson (MS), Jacksonville, Kansas City, Little Rock, Los Angeles, Midland/Odessa, Norfolk, and San Antonio.

[venture]

You're right about the markets but the more I think about it, the more I get the feeling that at least to some extent, having similar sized metro areas and so on, the top destinations (not served) are also similar that when a carrier looks at connecting one city to a new destination, it also adds the same to the other city. Both cities want more nonstops to both coasts but both are far enough to where most people won't drive 100 miles every time they want to go somewhere their airport doesn't have service to (..."well Tulsa is a large enough city, why doesn't it have nonstops there?"). Also note that XNA (NW Arkansas regional) also has better connectivity than TUL when looked at eastern/western U.S. connectivity. I have feeling that if and when UAX finally adds nonstops between OKC and SFO, TUL will not be far down the road... The air servce demographics are too similar and that's what ends up happening all the time. Then again I may be off on that but just my thinking.

O&D stats would tend to back your argument pretty well. While I think people WILL drive over 100 miles for low fares or nonstop service (see people going to Dallas or Wichita for Allegiant), there may be enough of the local market to make service work.

Comparison Markets:

Orlando, FL
OKC - 196 pax per day
TUL - 164 pax per day

Tampa, FL
OKC - 100 pax per day
TUL - 107 pax per day

San Francisco, CA
OKC - 101 pax per day
TUL - 56 pax per day

I could see F9 or another airline attempt TUL to Orlando based on a fairly strong market. I Think Tampa is too weak individually that F9 (Frontier - sorry for typing in code lol) will need OKC to draw from TUL some to make it work. Can they pull 50 pax a day from TUL? Not sure, but I would guess at least 15-20 will make the drive. San Francisco looks way too weak for TUL right now. United has 38% of the market on the route already, largest in the market, but that is at a premium of $16 over Southwest (lowest in market and 17% market share). Maybe it could work...but it'll come down to scheduling to get the people going through Denver or LAX instead.

[venture]

I agree. Frontier has an excellent add campaign with the talking animals that are on the tails of their planes. They are a part of Denver television just as BC Clarks is in OKC at Christmas. Their adds would catch on quickly in any market they are shown.

The Frontier commercials are genius and I always love watching them.
Commercials - Frontier Airlines
YouTube -Frontier Commercials
Animal Tales - Frontier Airlines

[venture]

Revealed today that Frontier/Midwest will be adding Omaha-Orlando/Tampa. Aircraft will original in OMA fly to Florida and then do the OKC turn before returning to RON at OMA.

[venture]

Effective January 2010 Delta will cut 2 daily flights to Atlanta and go down to 5 daily.

[jawgie]

New 1500 space Airport parking garage opened last Monday. Garage rate goes to $7.00 on Dec 1. Surface lots 2 & 3 to go up $1.00 on Dec 1 also.

[brianinok]

Why is the airport website so incredibly out of date?

• No news posted in all of 2008 or 2009.
• No mention of United flying to Washington Dulles.
• No mention of Southwest flying to Baltimore/Washington or Denver.
• No mention of Frontier starting to fly to Orlando or Tampa.
• No mention of parking price increases.
• No mention of the new garage being open.
• Incorrect gates listed for airlines.
• Still have Northwest information listed.

[venture]

Because they really don't care about the website?

I've been tempted to get an "unofficial" airport site up and going. I've been helping an old high school friend with one for his local airport for a few years, and it gets more traffic than the "official" site.

[HOT ROD]

oh venture, that would be a WONDERFUL idea! I wonder if there is some way it could tie to OKCTalk or somehow be co-sponsored??? (Pete ).

Anyways, yes - the official OKC airport site is ridiculous and needs 'competition' (much like our healthcare) in order for it to be more reliable and efficient.

[DelCamino]

How can they not care?!? I mean, it's obvious they don't, but geeezz..........

It's a PR function for our city, a 'first impression' and they are derelect in not understanding this.

Venture, it would be great if you could prod them along by creating one. For years, I've cringed when looking at the WRWA website. It's pitiful. It's embarrassing. A look at some other airports websites reveals how bad WRWA's is. Take a look at: Austin, Portland, OR, Nashville. Even Tulsa International. The list is endless.

A site with nice pics of the new terminal (preferrably with people in them), good color scheme (use the sandstone and marine/green color of the existing signage), terminal information interacting maps, reflecting all the services the airport offers. It's not hard.......

[DelCamino]

And not to go off and misdirect the thread..........but:

The parking garages could really stand some cleaning. Esp the small, front, 2-level garage, where the rentals are kept. The lower level is nasty: cigarette butts everwhere, grime, dirt, litter fill the curbs and cracks in the pavement. The upper level, in the new escalator area, is almost as bad.

Last year, I wrote a letter (or email - dont recall) to M.Kranenburg about it. Got a typical reply saying he didn't think it was bad and that it was the responsibiltiy of the rental car companies.....something like that.

Bottom line: it's still just as dirty and nasty today as it has been. Admin needs to pay attention to details, just as much as the number of flights.

[OUman]

Yeah, I hate to admit it, but venture is right, they really don't care about keeping the website updated. They kept Allegiant as one of the airlines flying to/from the airport for almost a year after it stopped service. Other airports seem to have no problems keeping their websites updated, even airports like XNA (Northwest Arknasas Regional) and other smaller ones do a better job than WRAs administration does with its website.

By the way, did you know TUL will be getting a dedicated viewing area for spotters? Yep, they had a golf tournament to raise funds for a separate viewing area with picnic tables and such (much like what Austin-Bergstrom has) so aviation enthusiasts can continue to watch planes. Wish we had something like that.

[MikeOKC]

That website is embarrassing. I just took a look at a few airports I have visited within the past 2 weeks and all were much better. Look at a couple of smaller airports which both have updated info within the last few days. Des Moines had a news update just today.

FlyWichita.com

Des Moines International Airport, Des Moines, Iowa

I like the way many airport sites have big graphics to click straight to visitor information. Nothing like it for OKC.

Our city is failing us here. Airport Trust, where are you? Spend millions of dollars to update an airport and then fall down and fail to spend a thousand dollars (or less) to update the public face of our airport to the world?

I guess if it were only downtown it would get the attention it deserves.

[venture]

Hum picking a domain name sucks for this. :-P

[chrisok]

Nm

[venture]

Delta will be adding 1 additional flight, total of 3, to Detroit in June.

[Kerry]

Honestly, most airport web sites suck. To much text and not enough visual features. A nice airport website would look more like the intro to a child's computer game or a DVD menu. Instead of just a line of links it would be better to have a visual from inside the lobby with signs like Baggage Claim, Ticketing, Parking, Ground Transportation, Car Rental, Terminal Map, Arriving Flights, Departing Flights, Lounge/Food Service, Airport News - just like you would actully see at the airport.

[SkyWestOKC]

OKC-DTW going from 2x daily to 3x daily on NW. (NWA filed the flights in OAG because SOC hasn't been granted, at the end of this month when it is granted, all NW flights in OAG will officially be filed under DL)

[SkyWestOKC]

Beat me to it venture. Maybe I only saw the first page in this thread.

[venture]

No worries. If you do beat me, be sure decode your posts. Only a handful here know the meanings of everything, so you'll start getting some grumpy responses if you type in all code. I've learned my lesson over the years. LOL