Galleria Mall - Downtown

[donbroncho]

San Antonio is killing the Riverwalk by letting it get dominated by the large national chains. When I was there a few years ago, it was nothing but Chili's and Dave & Busters.

Shoot, if you look enough on this board, you will see a bunch of people who think having a Dave and Busters is one of the greatest thing ever. Thats bad to hear about the SA riverwalk..i went there 10 years ago and it was great...

[mugofbeer]

When I was there there were maybe 3-4 non-chain places in the area we were which was the main area around the Hyatt

[Steve]

DonBroncho, that was also a factor in the demise of West End. Ironically, it was a much-heralded theme restaurant (Planet Hollywood), that started the death spiral (which takes us full circle back to the other thread on the Hard Rock Cafe).
Experts repeatedly say successful districts feature and promote locally owned shops, restaurants and entertainment. I'm sorry, but if given a choice between Nonna's, The Mantle, Mickey Mantle Steakhouse versus Ruth's Chris, Morton's and PF Chang's in Bricktown, I'd take the locals. And if given a choice between The Gap and Victoria's Secret vs Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium and Put a Cork In It, I'd again take the locals.
BTW: Locally owned shops, restaurants and clubs - the good ones - reinvest back here in Oklahoma City. The chains don't. The CityWalk guys are a perfect example - they reinvested with Michael Murphy's Dueling Pianos.

[mugofbeer]

Sorry, Steve, don't get it. Explain?

[jbrown84]

Sorry, Steve, don't get it. Explain?

Seriously?


I've definitely seen the decline of the Rivercenter Mall in San Antonio having been going there over the years. Just in the last 10 years there's been a significant change. Also, I recently visited St. Louis where they have a mall inside their historic Union Station downtown. It is in terrible shape with more vacancy than Crossroads. Also, Tulsa has a dead downtown mall. As someone said, it only works in places like Chicago and NYC.

[Urban Enthusiast]

Downtown malls are notorious for failing. Indianapolis has a very successful mall, Circle Centre, but before that there was an unsuccessful mall in Union Station. And yes, Tulsa used to have the Forum, which had an ice skating rink. It closed up shop sometime in the early to mid '90s.

Personally, I would like to see more traditional shopping in the downtown area with storefronts on the ground floor. Preferably clustered in a shopping district for better appeal.

[mugofbeer]

I thought Steve was referring to the West End in Dallas but thats another example of a decline in a downtown entertainment district when the chains are left to take over.

[jbrown84]

Personally, I would like to see more traditional shopping in the downtown area with storefronts on the ground floor. Preferably clustered in a shopping district for better appeal.

Agreed.

[Platemaker]

Large-scale downtown retail has rarely been a success except in highly urbanized cities such as NYC or Chicago. You must have a VERY large population to support it

Even in Salt Lake City where they had two nice downtown retail centers, they quickly declined so retail moved to the new Crossroads Plaza which is just outside downtown SLC.

I just spent a week in Salt Lake and their downtown mall didn't seem to have any problems.

[rondvu]

I agree with Steve. I always try to patronize the local businesses, e.g. Bunny's or Tim's over McDonald's. They have an investment in their business and their livelihood depends on traffic. If the corporate powers is another city decide to bankrupt a business or close the lower preforming stores then you have huge holes in the shops and restaurants. Ask yourself this, Wow so and so closed at it was ALWAYS so busy, wonder why? Chili's, Applebees and Outback all taste the same and truth be know the food come prepackaged from the same kitchen, untouched by human hands. I believe the locals have more staying power.

[mugofbeer]

I just spent a week in Salt Lake and their downtown mall didn't seem to have any problems.

Its been a couple of years since I was there and it was pretty deserted then because everything had moved to the Crossroads center about a mile away. Maybe its picked up - or are you referring to the Crossroads center that is brand new?

[Platemaker]

Its been a couple of years since I was there and it was pretty deserted then because everything had moved to the Crossroads center about a mile away. Maybe its picked up - or are you referring to the Crossroads center that is brand new?

I'm talking about the gateway center that TRAX runs to.

[mmonroe]

Anyone ever notice the different mindset between tulsans and oklahomans? The cities that is. Tulsa is about attractions and okc.. well, we're working on getting our name into the big leagues, but we're not that impressive compared to other cities. I just got back from Panama City Beach, Florida... i drove. I stopped in almost every major city across the SE USA. While driving in between some major cities there is absolutely nothing... But when you do get to those major cities, there are attractions like crazy. Not to mention the beautiful architecture and landscaping. It was depressing leaving Memphis, TN and driving through Arkansas, who's only cool thing to see in my opinion was ANO, their Nuclear Power Plant, and then into oklahoma. Talk about a boring drive. It didn't even get interesting until we hit midwest city.

My question is, Why do we not have something crazy carved into our foot hills like Mt. Rushmore, or Crazy Horse in South Dakota. Where is our archway like st. louis? Why don't we have a space needle or . . . . something. Why do we stop short on where the OKlahoma river ends being a wide body of water. Why is it not wider or longer? What is taking MAPS3 so long?

I'm impatient.

[jbrown84]

I don't really understand what you are getting at. Every city you went to had an equivalent of the St. Louis Arch or Mt. Rushmore (nowhere near a city)??

MAPS is not about big expensive monuments. It's about quality of life.

Also don't follow what you mean about the different mindsets of OKC and Tulsa.

[mmonroe]

eh, i was quick to post. What I meant is that tulsans have a might set of attracting people, ie tourist, we as people in okc think about making things better for ourselves. What I was saying as a whole is that we don't really have attractions as of yet. I mean, yes we are building things as we move along, but nothing that defines oklahoma past cowboys and indians. Everywhere I went had something that defined it's city. (Major cities exclusively.)

[rondvu]

Anyone ever notice the different mindset between tulsans and oklahomans? The cities that is. Tulsa is about attractions and okc.. well, we're working on getting our name into the big leagues, but we're not that impressive compared to other cities. I just got back from Panama City Beach, Florida... i drove. I stopped in almost every major city across the SE USA. While driving in between some major cities there is absolutely nothing... But when you do get to those major cities, there are attractions like crazy. Not to mention the beautiful architecture and landscaping. It was depressing leaving Memphis, TN and driving through Arkansas, who's only cool thing to see in my opinion was ANO, their Nuclear Power Plant, and then into oklahoma. Talk about a boring drive. It didn't even get interesting until we hit midwest city.

My question is, Why do we not have something crazy carved into our foot hills like Mt. Rushmore, or Crazy Horse in South Dakota. Where is our archway like st. louis? Why don't we have a space needle or . . . . something. Why do we stop short on where the OKlahoma river ends being a wide body of water. Why is it not wider or longer? What is taking MAPS3 so long?

I'm impatient.

Did you say MIDWEST CITY?

[jbrown84]

eh, i was quick to post. What I meant is that tulsans have a might set of attracting people, ie tourist, we as people in okc think about making things better for ourselves. What I was saying as a whole is that we don't really have attractions as of yet. I mean, yes we are building things as we move along, but nothing that defines oklahoma past cowboys and indians. Everywhere I went had something that defined it's city. (Major cities exclusively.)

Still not sure what major attractions other cities have that we don't, other than the specific ones you mentioned. You also said in the same post that there was nothing to see in all of Arkansas, including Little Rock. What is it you think we are missing, exactly?

[megax11]

I am a huge fan of Crossroads mall, but even I would like to see this happen -

Build a huge mall somewhere downtown, like Dallas has with their Galleria. It could have all of the big stores, namely the ones I shop at (Hollister, Buckle, A&F, AE,) even an arcade like Quail still has. Lego could open a store there. Since this would be more centralized, Simon could pack up Penn Square, and get the hell out of dodge, and Crossroads can be demolished, since it would certainly go to waste making it a business mall, or a mall full of government offices (boring.)

This way we'd have malls in a more balanced fashion. Quail up north, Sooner down south, and this huge mall, downtown, for the north and southsiders.

In my opinion, this would bring more business downtown, and maybe some more Bricktown projects could get done.

I'll say this, and I know it isn't much. If Crossroads fails, I refuse to shop at any other malls, for the sole fact that gives money to that sector, and they flourish while my sector falls down the hole. Southside deserves some love, but is getting none. I know I am one person, but other's may catch on someday, to the fact that when they spend money in other parts of the city, it goes toward that area, and helps them grow and grow, while they give little thought to the people who came that far to spend money (convienance.)

[jbrown84]

"Pack up" Penn Square??? Are you serious?

[decepticobra]

Chili's, Applebees and Outback all taste the same and truth be know the food come prepackaged from the same kitchen, untouched by human hands..

Sounds like youre referring to Landrys. They own many restaurants (I forget which exact ones they own)

Yum! owns Taco Bell, KFC, and Pizza Hut so all 3 of them use the exact same shredded cheese trucked in from the same distribution company whether it be for tacos, pizza, or chicken bowls.

[Drake]

"Build a huge mall somewhere downtown, like Dallas has with their Galleria."

???

The Galleria in Dallas is in north Dallas, not near the downtown area.

[mugofbeer]

The day of the huge indoor mall is passing us by. When there are so many big box strip centers, most malls are having trouble. In cities where zoning laws are more strict than OKC and the surrounding area and the malls don't have competition on every single flipping streetcorner, the malls are making it - otherwise, only the ones in established, high income areas are surviving. The more marginal malls are dying a slow death.

[Patrick]

eh, i was quick to post. What I meant is that tulsans have a might set of attracting people, ie tourist, we as people in okc think about making things better for ourselves. What I was saying as a whole is that we don't really have attractions as of yet. I mean, yes we are building things as we move along, but nothing that defines oklahoma past cowboys and indians. Everywhere I went had something that defined it's city. (Major cities exclusively.)

I'm confused. What attractions does Tulsa have that we don't have? The only real tourist attractions in Tulsa I can think of are Philbrook and Gilcrease. So, we have the OKC Museum of Art and National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum. Plus we have Science Museum Oklahoma, the Bricktown area and Bricktown canal, all of the attractions in the "Adventure District", etc. etc.

[Patrick]

Build a huge mall somewhere downtown, like Dallas has with their Galleria. It could have all of the big stores, namely the ones I shop at (Hollister, Buckle, A&F, AE,) even an arcade like Quail still has. Lego could open a store there.

Galleria isn't any closer to downtown Dallas than Penn Square is to downtown OKC.

Since this would be more centralized, Simon could pack up Penn Square, and get the hell out of dodge

That wouldn't be a very smart business decision. Penn Square is pretty successful and Simon has too much at stake there. I mean, it's the most successful shopping area in the city.

In my opinion, this would bring more business downtown, and maybe some more Bricktown projects could get done.

I don't think we want a suburban mall downtown. I'd prefer more storefronts like in most downtown areas.

I'll say this, and I know it isn't much. If Crossroads fails, I refuse to shop at any other malls, for the sole fact that gives money to that sector, and they flourish while my sector falls down the hole. Southside deserves some love, but is getting none. I know I am one person, but other's may catch on someday, to the fact that when they spend money in other parts of the city, it goes toward that area, and helps them grow and grow, while they give little thought to the people who came that far to spend money (convienance.)

Crossroads has already failed. The place is dead.

[megax11]

Penn Square is probably so well off because us southsiders have to rely on that mall, since ours is on its deathbed. See the trend? We drive 10-15 minutes, just to help that side of town prosper, while even our strip malls are thin of new businesses, let alone our mall.

Penn Square is off to a good start due to the people over there, plus a mixture of those of us on southside who want a good shopping experience, but is close, yet so far away.

How can southside flourish like other areas, building a good amount of plazas and filling them with new businesses and doing something with all the abandoned areas we have, if we are giving our money to certain sectors of the city?

A senior manager friend of mine from Toys R Us, told me that Southside TRU may close down, due to the impending Moore location. If they think I am going to shop there, because they can't just give Moore a convienant location, while keeping their other locations, then they are dead wrong. It is all about convienance, and us southsiders are getting **** on, because we are spending our money in the wrong places. I even heard they may close their Norman location, which isn't fair to Norman people who have supported them for years upon years, just for them to bail to greater pastures, making it more convienant for them, not the customer.

If it were up to me, I would have all these plazas filled in southside. Tell these lasy capitalist pigs who think to only put a bingo hall in a plaza and reap the rewards, to cut it out, of get the **** out. They're wasting the potential southside has to grow, because they want to be lazy and sit on all the cash coming in. I would have Crossroads fixed up, city bought, and fixed up into retail, or I'd bulldoze the POS, and make way for a nice outdoor shopping district.

I believe in equality. Moore, northside, Quail, Edmond, Norman and southside, all deserve some lovin in the retail sector. Sadly though, retail is bailing on those they relied on for so many years, and going to better pastures, while expecting those they relied on to drive further when gas is rising yet again.

I never support anything that uses my money just to bail, and make things more inconvienant for me. Other's will in time, get smart to the fact as well.

In before they cant do this during this bad economy.