panhandlers!

[bornhere]

The clientele that I deal with who are so messed up that they can't hold a job would not be able to beg, either. Getting to the begging place and frequently standing out there for hours is simply not possible for them. To do that for more than a few days at a time is not something I see any of them being capable of doing. We all know about the mentally ill who wander the streets pushing their shopping carts - poor souls. Those aren't the ones standing on the corner with a sign. Their thougths are so disorganized that they simply couldn't do it.

Panhandlers are, for the most part, professionals. This is what they do for a living. Some of them work harder than they would in some office jobs.

I very rarely give to panhandlers. I have a choice to patronize or not patronize any business or type of business, and I choose not to patronize this type of business.

[ddavidson8]

What country do you think you are living in?

And when the bus stops at this "life back on track" mecca and they decide to start walking right back to where they came from - what then? Shoot them on sight?

We live in the Obamanation.

[Stan Silliman]

We should at least require they dress up. Our city deserves a better class of panhandler.

[Karried]

You're right, nobody cares about these people the way you do.

That's not true. I care and many other people care. Thank you Mike.

[Lauri101]

That's not true. I care and many other people care. Thank you Mike.

Thank you Mike and Karried

Of course there are people out there who are scammers and want something for nothing - that's not limited to panhandlers and beggers - look at Madoff.

And, as a side note about IRS - we can't even get audits done on the people who owe way more than a few panhandlers make. Also, local police and IRS do NOT share information. IRS shares with no one.

No matter what their situation, though, they are still human beings. As Mike said - a sack of burgers can go a long way. Get a foot long Subway or Quiznos sandwich, packaged separately, and hand the other half away. Or, do nothing at all - it's a free country.

I'm not even a Christian, but "Whatsoever you do for the least of these..." sounds familar

[PennyQuilts]

I can't imagine going online - or in person - to brag about what I do for the poor, especially while pointing fingers at other people at the same time.

[Lauri101]

I didn't think the topic was so contraversial.

How is expressing one's belief/action about doing something for a "panhandler" any different from stating what one does for homeless animals? Mentally ill clients? The poor? The unchurched? Anything else that people talk about on this forum?

If the statements made by Mike - or me - were bragging about what we do, then every regular poster has "bragged" at some point in time. And who pointed fingers?
ECO - your anger is evident in your statement, which is uncharacteristic of your posts.

[PennyQuilts]

I didn't think the topic was so contraversial.

How is expressing one's belief/action about doing something for a "panhandler" any different from stating what one does for homeless animals? Mentally ill clients? The poor? The unchurched? Anything else that people talk about on this forum?

If the statements made by Mike - or me - were bragging about what we do, then every regular poster has "bragged" at some point in time. And who pointed fingers?
ECO - your anger is evident in your statement, which is uncharacteristic of your posts.

Braggarts irritate me. They always want credit for anything they do and most of the time it is just as much an exercise in putting other people down because they disagree with their ideology than anything else. So long as someone gives lip service to being warm and fuzzy, they get applause. That is fine as far as it goes and good for them but these happy meal buyers always want to follow up with criticizing others who aren't so darn pure.

It is one thing to describe what you see. It is another thing to make sure people know what a good person you are and point out how other people aren't so nice. I was taught that the only good deeds you get credit for are the ones you don't tell anyone about. I write a lot about what I see in my work but it sure isn't to brag. It is to point out the reality of what is out there to counter the disneyland version so many people decribe based on nothing more than their world view from their own front window. I'm a minor cog in a wheel and the heavy lifting is being done by people you never hear about and who certainly wouldn't brag about doing something like buy some guy a happy meal - nor would they think that gives them the moral high ground to shake fingers at people who are skeptical of human nature. Have you noticed that the most vocal people aren't the ones in the trenches? It tends to be people who just assume that anyone who is skeptical is heartless. The ones in the trenches will break their hearts for the ones they can but are well aware that the shadow world is full of prey AND predators.

[Bunty]

Panhandlers are, for the most part, professionals. This is what they do for a living. Some of them work harder than they would in some office jobs.

I very rarely give to panhandlers. I have a choice to patronize or not patronize any business or type of business, and I choose not to patronize this type of business.

Would you much rather have them work for a hand out in the streets by squeegeeing your car while stopped at a red light?

[PennyQuilts]

Would you much rather have them work for a hand out in the streets by squeegeeing your car while stopped at a red light?

Neither. And most of us don't want to be blackmailed into thinking those are our only choices.

Fact is, most of us are aware that the squeegee guys are sort of scary operators and we give them money to get them to leave us alone. The guys begging on the side of the road are the ones that make us wonder if they are really in need or just operating.

[BailJumper]

Some of you people never cease to crack me up.

While I'm sure many do live in hotels, I seriously doubt any are going home to their brick and mortar house of their own. Many of Oklahoma's poor or "homeless" live in motels. Not because they are living large, but because they can't seem to ever scrape up enough money all at once for a deposit, etc. for a real home. They make $50 and they spend $50.

As for a permit. Actually, you don't need a permit in OKC to beg for food. I called the city and they said it is everyone's right to be able to beg for food. However, if you are going to advertise "Will WORK for food/money, etc." then the city tells me you do indeed need a permit.

In OKC I highly doubt a panhandler averages more than $20-$60 a day.

It would be interesting to see where panhandlers go to spend their money since I wonder how often it is to spend it on beer or other alcoholic drink.

Seriously? You really need someone else to answer that question for you? It goes to buy food, alcohol, drugs, and a hotel room. For some it buys gas if they have a car and minutes for their phone if they have one of those. These people are not leaving to go ride their jet ski's, take vacations, or eat at Red Prime.

Call the IRS? Riiigggght.

Personally, I have little to no sympathy for panhandlers. There truly is no need for them.

If they need food there are dozens of places who provide meals for free. If they need a place to stay we have free shelters. Travelers Aid can help people stranded that are passing through. Heck, several churches even have free prescriptions. Somebody tell me why we should tolerate or be sympathetic towards them.

Something I do support is what you find in other cities, and that is designated places where people needing day labor work can gather and people needing workers can go get them. As far as I know that does not exist in OKC. I'd give a down on his luck man/woman a day job helping me out if they are truly willing to work.

[MikeOKC]

Braggarts irritate me. They always want credit for anything they do and most of the time it is just as much an exercise in putting other people down because they disagree with their ideology than anything else.

Odd.

Is this possibly written by the same person who constantly reminds us of her rags to riches story? She acts like she wrote the book on pulling yourself up on your own bootstraps. But braggarts irritate her especially when it's tied to their ideology? Mirror: Meet ECO.

[BBatesokc]

All I can say is that I served meals for several years at the downtown Baptist mission and saw many different definitions of homelessness and its victims.

Many were simply mentally ill and really have no other option, some were families having hard times and their homelessness was temporary, some were local working poor, but by and large I noticed lots of thugs and drug/alcohol addicts.

I do agree with Bailjumper on at least one point, and that is that I think we offer enough services that panhandling should not be allowed.

[oneforone]

I support providing services that help those that are poor. However, what I'm against is people that take advatage of the kindess of others. Panhandlers do just that. Most are junkies and people who are just too lazy to find a regular job like the rest of us. They do not have mental health issues nor are vets or belong to some other sympathy deserving group.

I personally have observed several being picked by people in nice cars as if they were getting picked up from work. I have friends and neighbors who offered these people work and each time the person never showed up or declined do the work.

Check this out.

YouTube - Panhandler scammer


If you truly want to help the needy here is what you do. Buy these vouchers from Homless Alliance and give them to the panhandlers.

http://www.homelessalliance.org/realchange.htm

or

Take the spare cash you nomrally give to panhanlers and donate to the Jesus House, the City Rescue Mission or any other homeless organization.

Jesus House in OKC

City Rescue Mission Donation Information Page

[PennyQuilts]

Odd.

Is this possibly written by the same person who constantly reminds us of her rags to riches story? She acts like she wrote the book on pulling yourself up on your own bootstraps. But braggarts irritate her especially when it's tied to their ideology? Mirror: Meet ECO.

That is not bragging. It is the basis for my insistence that you can't get out of a lifestyle hole if you won't work (assuming you can work). It is like giving a basic recipe for cake - not bragging about how it tastes. Just what do you think would have happened to me and my kids if I had sat around waiting for someone to throw me some bread? The same thing that happens to anyone who has kids they can't afford and then sits around waiting for someone to toss them some bread.

[PennyQuilts]

All I can say is that I served meals for several years at the downtown Baptist mission and saw many different definitions of homelessness and its victims.

Many were simply mentally ill and really have no other option, some were families having hard times and their homelessness was temporary, some were local working poor, but by and large I noticed lots of thugs and drug/alcohol addicts.

I do agree with Bailjumper on at least one point, and that is that I think we offer enough services that panhandling should not be allowed.

And really, that was my suspicion, as well. The mentally ill ones are simply not going to be able to stand on the street corner and beg. The ones with significant substance abuse problems won't do it for any length of time. The shelters are an absolute godsend for those poor souls. And god bless you for helping out at the mission.

[Prunepicker]

Nobody has mentioned how the panhandlers used to hold up a sign that said,
"Will Work for Food". When they were offered the opportunity to work for
food, they wouldn't take it.

Does anybody know why they'd turn down what they were asking for?

[Karried]

Does anybody know why they'd turn down what they were asking for?

I'll take a guess ... maybe missing a few limbs or sitting in a wheelchair?

Yeah, some people might abuse the system and that really stinks but some other people might really be down on their luck and need a helping hand... and who really knows if a ' purchased meal' might make the difference between starving or not? Just the idea that someone actually cares enough to want to give someone a meal can make a huge difference in someone's life.

Consider yourself lucky if you've never been in this position but please don't discourage those who might want to help those less fortunate.. no one can know what is actually transpiring in each individual's life.

Nevermind.. I'll stop now because I can't say what I really want to say anyway.

[Stan Silliman]

Nobody has mentioned how the panhandlers used to hold up a sign that said,
"Will Work for Food". When they were offered the opportunity to work for
food, they wouldn't take it.

Does anybody know why they'd turn down what they were asking for?

Less people would give if the sign said "Will Work for Wine"

[Prunepicker]

I'll take a guess... maybe missing a few limbs or sitting
in a wheelchair?

I don't ever remember seeing any panhandlers described like that, during the
will work for food era. A News station (KWTV?) did a report on these poor
victims. None if them took any work offered. No they didn't approach them
with cameras reeling away.

The reason they wouldn't take the job was obvious. They made too much
money to leave their perch for a few dollars or a bag of groceries.

I encourage those of you who are truly concerned about these poor souls
make them an good offer and see if they'll leave their perch. If they don't
you may have learned a valuable lesson. If they do, then you did a good
thing. How can you lose?

By the way, I have a bag I give to them, only once. No money!

[PennyQuilts]

I'll take a guess ... maybe missing a few limbs or sitting in a wheelchair?

Yeah, some people might abuse the system and that really stinks but some other people might really be down on their luck and need a helping hand... and who really knows if a ' purchased meal' might make the difference between starving or not? Just the idea that someone actually cares enough to want to give someone a meal can make a huge difference in someone's life.

Consider yourself lucky if you've never been in this position but please don't discourage those who might want to help those less fortunate.. no one can know what is actually transpiring in each individual's life.

Nevermind.. I'll stop now because I can't say what I really want to say anyway.

Genuinely disabled people are entitled to SSI and government assistance including housing. Vets have other resources. Standing out on the street corner is not abusing the system because they are acting outside the system. Someone who stops to assist them might want to ask why they aren't within the system or why their families aren't helping them.

[BailJumper]

Yeah, some people might abuse the system and that really stinks but some other people might really be down on their luck and need a helping hand... and who really knows if a ' purchased meal' might make the difference between starving or not?

All I can say is these (more often than not) scumbags count on bleeding hearts like yourself. "starve"? Give me a break. Our city gives out free meals like they waste our tax dollars.

Its quite simple, they say "food" so you'll give in an become their sucker - they won't actually work because their intention was never to work.

One of the news stations did a story awhile back on how one homeless man alone had cost tax payers over $1-million just from his constant calling of 911, hospital transports and stays and daily arrests.

The individuals who fit your description of the down and out just needing a helping hand and to know someone cares - those people are the ones actually getting the help at the City Rescue Mission - why? Because for honest people it makes since and there is too much shame in begging on the street corner (as it should be).

As for those goofy coupons you can buy. Please, that's all PR and make yourself feel good. I'd love to see some TV station ask the city how many of these bus coupons have been sold compared to how many have been redeemed.

[warreng88]

I used to bartend at Belle Isle Brewery and on my way to work at NW Expressway and Penn facing the west was a panhandler in a hat that I have seen many times. One day while at work, he came into the bar and got a Ribeye, full baked potato and a beer. The total (because we were running a special) was $15-$16 and he left $20 that included tip. I know, "at least he was buying food," but he could have taken that money to get groceries or something better.

My brother said the only person he has ever given money to was a guy that had a sign that said, "Why lie? I need a beer." He said he pulled over and gave him $5 and said, "At least you are honest."

[Karried]

I just love all of the 'anonymous' sources regarding how well off these panhandlers really are.

I'm not sure why all of you aren't on the corner with a sign? You could buy yourself a Lexus and have a mansion, right?

And, thank you, I'll take the label bleeding heart any day. Compared to the alternative, I'm glad to have compassion and empathy for others. I'm teaching my kids to have the same traits. And nothing I read on this Oklahoma (home of the friendliest people in the nation) message board will change my mind.

[SoonerDave]

Unfortunately, the compassionate part of me has been tempered with the part of me that lives in reality.

One group of folks working along I-240 some time ago were approached by some friends of mine who had arranged for some simple day-labor work for them. Nothing fancy, nothing life-changing, but a real job, with real wages. It was thought of as something more useful than a quick handout.

The people they approached laughed in their face.

The answer was, paraphrased, "Why on earth should I work for a few bucks an hour when I can stand here and make hundreds a day in cash tax-free?"

They discovered the people working the corner(s) were coordinated and scheduled, never becoming too "recognizable" over any one period of time. It was not nearly as ad-hoc as you might otherwise be led to believe.

It was all disheartening and disillusioning for the people who really thought they were helping link someone to an opportunity to work.

Now, before someone else says it, this doesn't mean that all panhandlers are scammers, or that they're all trying to beat the system, but it does remind me of just a year or two ago when a local TV station did a story on the panhandling trade...and found out almost precisely the same thing. Not interested in working. Looking for cash.

So for those folks who might be in a position to help someone, but find themselves hesitant to do so for the examples offered above, I'm willing to give them a break.