OCU wants to move law school downtown

[Midtowner]

As for the law school, they've had problems getting folks past the exam and then really being good lawyers.

It's hard to say what a "really good lawyer" is, at least insofar as you want to define it. Of course, you might consider a really good lawyer to be one of those guys with OCU Law degrees who have campus buildings named after them... you know, like Homsey.

As far as Bar passage rates, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Last July we had 94% pass the Bar.

[kevinpate]

> Last July we had 94% pass the Bar.

Nice, I don't know if that percentage is now the norm for OCU, but hopefully so. It strikes me as higher than in years gone by.

[Midtowner]

It's been in that range for several years now. At one time, the passage rate was actually pretty abysmal, but since then, the school has taken the necessary steps to get things in line. Now all the law schools in the state have around the same percentage passing -- usually in the 90-percent range.

[kevinpate]

Thanks for the clarification and update midtowner. I knew there was a time the school ran a consistent third in pass percentage. Improvement on that point is good for all in the long run.

[yukong]

...the law school has ZERO interaction with the rest of campus. A regular campus student can't really have an attachment to something that doesn't ever interact with them. Even the folks that do pre-law on campus often don't really come back onto campus for anything. The roll into that corner of campus and park, go to class, and roll back out. They don't attend events outside of their own buildings, they don't go to the Union, etc. So even if it didnt exist all together, I don't think much of the campus would really care that much.

That's too bad. When I was at OCU Law, back in the early 80s, we had a lot of interaction with the rest of the school. Of course, that was back when the entire law school was in the Gold Star Building. We didn't really have any lounges or places to hang out, other then the library. So we were in the student center every day. Some days for several hours. We usually had lunch there in the snack bar. We went to the old gym and played ball with the undergrads on a regular basis. We used the chapel basement for studying. We went to programs in the auditorium, etc. We were regularly involved with the rest of the school. Sorry to hear that is no longer the case.

[Midtowner]

Thanks for the clarification and update midtowner. I knew there was a time the school ran a consistent third in pass percentage. Improvement on that point is good for all in the long run.

All three trade off these days in being tops in that category and the difference is always negligible.

[OKCMallen]

The year BEFORE I took the bar, OCU and TU were more or less tied for distant second, about 10%-age points behind OU.

I think OCU law has a bigger impact on the campus that the poster above states, and I think he's not really fully considering the benefits of gaining an empty, student-ready classroom building. It's not about money- it's about available space in that part of town. Dedicating that building (and the parking) to undergraduate programs at OCU would be a noticeable change.

I think it would be great to be downtown the more I think about it. Heck, I think it would improve the quality of life of the students....sorry to say, but law school is very time-intensive, and I can think of better places to hang around than 23rd and Penn.

[bombermwc]

If it's up to 94%, I'll stand corrected, but that hasn't been the norm. OCU has lagged behind TU and OU for some time in the Law School arena, and it's common knowledge.

I don't personally consider the Homsey's to be "great lawyers". There's just a lot of them and they've managed to make a nice buck. Having a large cash flow doesn't neccessarily mean you're a good lawyer.

And the current law building is NOT classroom ready. Yes there are some classrooms in there, but it would take money to convert the law specific spaces into useable space for other fields. Yes that's cheaper than building a new building, but it would end up much like the old Meinders did where significant renovations would be required to meet the needs of the new classrooms. What's needed on campus right now is a replacement for Loefler. So unless you can transform some of that space into large computer and science labs, then you're going to need money to do renovations.

[OKCMallen]

And the current law building is NOT classroom ready.

Have they stopped giving lectures at OCU?

[Midtowner]

If it's up to 94%, I'll stand corrected, but that hasn't been the norm. OCU has lagged behind TU and OU for some time in the Law School arena, and it's common knowledge.

We've lagged OU in acceptance standards (signficantly) for awhile. It's probably always been the case. TU though? Not a huge difference there. As far as Bar passage rates, there's really not much difference from school to school though. All three take turns being #1.

I don't personally consider the Homsey's to be "great lawyers". There's just a lot of them and they've managed to make a nice buck. Having a large cash flow doesn't neccessarily mean you're a good lawyer.

I'm glad you've found a better set of criteria for what it is to be a good lawyer than cash earnings. What exactly are you basing your assessment on? Your vast and broad knowledge of the competence of various members of the legal profession?

[OKCMallen]

We've lagged OU in acceptance standards (signficantly) for awhile. It's probably always been the case. TU though? Not a huge difference there. As far as Bar passage rates, there's really not much difference from school to school though. All three take turns being #1.



I'm glad you've found a better set of criteria for what it is to be a good lawyer than cash earnings. What exactly are you basing your assessment on? Your vast and broad knowledge of the competence of various members of the legal profession?

The kid is just arguing to argue at this point. Although he brought to light one thing: I didn't realize there was contempt for the law school amongst the undergrads at OCU.

[Midtowner]

The kid is just arguing to argue at this point. Although he brought to light one thing: I didn't realize there was contempt for the law school amongst the undergrads at OCU.

I don't know whether or not he's representative of all of them, but I guess they might have some problems with the fact that we now have our own parking areas. Beats the heck out of me.

They really shouldn't feel contempt considering the fact that the law school subsidizes a great deal of the undergrad activity on that campus.

[OKCMallen]

I don't know whether or not he's representative of all of them, but I guess they might have some problems with the fact that we now have our own parking areas. Beats the heck out of me.

They really shouldn't feel contempt considering the fact that the law school subsidizes a great deal of the undergrad activity on that campus.

They should be happy as clams the law school makes all that money and takes a minimum of space, parking, and student services.

[lasomeday]

OK... OK! Stop arguing. We know you guys are lawyers already. Stop acting like them.

The point of this is to say. Yes, the law school downtown will be good, or bad, not pass the bar rates.

The Law School Downtown will be a welcome additition to the mix of developments that will be going up in the next 10 years downtown. If it happens.

[PennyQuilts]

Lawyers don't argue with each other just for sport. There is too big a chance we'd lose - that's no fun. Yup, if we're arguing, better pay us, baby.

[lasomeday]

LOL! Yeah, when I get my stimulus check I will mail you your 50%.

[PennyQuilts]

That will be, what... $6.25. Fine. Your check is your receipt...

Crap, I'll have to pay taxes on that...

[OKCMallen]

OK... OK! Stop arguing. We know you guys are lawyers already. Stop acting like them.

The point of this is to say. Yes, the law school downtown will be good, or bad, not pass the bar rates.

The Law School Downtown will be a welcome additition to the mix of developments that will be going up in the next 10 years downtown. If it happens.

We were agreeing with each other....for the record...

[bombermwc]

Well Midtowner, like usual you confirm my theory that you're a jerk. Nice attitude....I'm sure you'll fit into the lawyer world nicely. I may not be 50, but I'm also not some punk 21 year old college kid either.

Again, as for the current building being classroom ready, if you read anything in my post then you'd know what the problem is. OCU isn't in need of plain classroom lecture space. Walker Center isn't full by any means and there are clasrooms in other parts of the campus that handle the loads if there ever is overflow. So if Law did leave campus, just using the rooms as lecture halls would be a waste of space. Just because a building exists, doesn't mean that it is being made the most of.

Subsidizing though, I hardly think so. If you took a look at the finances of the departments on campus, I think you'd be surprised how many other departments pull plenty of their own weight in comparison. The Law faculty is expensive compared to other departments. And there are a lot of resources (like the law library) that cost money to maintain that no one else on campus utilize. Look at the business school for goodness sake. You don't think all those MBA students are fluffing up the books of the school???

Like a typical lawyer, I feel you are overemphasizing your impact and importance.

But it's all irrelevant anyway, the law school won't move. McDaniel isn't exactlly excited about it.

[kevinpate]

For the fun of it, I'll presume moving law to DT is both good idea and a done deal. maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but it's pretend time so who cares.

So, OCU Alum's, what are the three next best uses of the current law center at the sw corner of campus, which may or may not have a relationship to renovation expenses.

[OKCMallen]

Well Midtowner, like usual you confirm my theory that you're a jerk. Nice attitude....I'm sure you'll fit into the lawyer world nicely. I may not be 50, but I'm also not some punk 21 year old college kid either.

Again, as for the current building being classroom ready, if you read anything in my post then you'd know what the problem is. OCU isn't in need of plain classroom lecture space. Walker Center isn't full by any means and there are clasrooms in other parts of the campus that handle the loads if there ever is overflow. So if Law did leave campus, just using the rooms as lecture halls would be a waste of space. Just because a building exists, doesn't mean that it is being made the most of.

Subsidizing though, I hardly think so. If you took a look at the finances of the departments on campus, I think you'd be surprised how many other departments pull plenty of their own weight in comparison. The Law faculty is expensive compared to other departments. And there are a lot of resources (like the law library) that cost money to maintain that no one else on campus utilize. Look at the business school for goodness sake. You don't think all those MBA students are fluffing up the books of the school???

Like a typical lawyer, I feel you are overemphasizing your impact and importance.

But it's all irrelevant anyway, the law school won't move. McDaniel isn't exactlly excited about it.

Because this post doesn't at all indicate that you're managing the Jerk Store...

It ain't hard- an urban university with currently no space to grow laterally gains the use of a building with lecture halls, a smallish auditorium, office space, parking, etc. You're right- this is totally worthless to undergrad programs at OCU.

[warreng88]

So, OCU Alum's, what are the three next best uses of the current law center at the sw corner of campus, which may or may not have a relationship to renovation expenses.

I would say one good use would be for the new School of Theology. I believe it was started a couple of years ago, but the closest good one is the Perkins School of Theology at SMU. Also the Law Library could be converted to the School of Religion library or something. I will ask my dad (who is on the board of trustees) if he knows of any future plans for that building.

[bombermwc]

What the crap are you talking about no room to grow? OCU's masterplan includes buying up everything between Classen and Pennsylvania from 23rd to 30th. And if you don't think they are making progress, check out a map from 2000 and compare it to now. They already own land on both sides of the law school and have plenty open empty land at the north end of campus. They've been buying up land all over the place parcel by parcel for decades for continued growth. They buy the land bit by bit whether they have an immediate need for it or not. They also don't always bulldoze the house once they own the land. That's what allowed them to build the softball field where it is now...because they had purchased pieces over the years so they didn't have to front the expense all at once. If they didn't ever do this work, they would have never grown. The school will never be "out of room".

If they wanted to build a new building, the land south of Freede would be the most logical for current space. Otherwise there is land west of the baseball field. Bulldoze Loefler and you've got more surface parking too....not that they need it.

The Gold Star building would be a great place for the Theology school. I believe the school of religion started there when it was just clasroom space. I can double check that from my Century of Service book from the centennial.

[Midtowner]

The Gold Star building would be a great place for the Theology school. I believe the school of religion started there when it was just clasroom space. I can double check that from my Century of Service book from the centennial.

That's correct. In fact, I think it still has "school of theology" or somesuch engraved on it.

If OCU does start building north, I would think it's in their best interest to *only* do graduate facilities on that north end of campus, e.g., a new law school. One of the best things I think, for undergrads, about OCU's campus is that it's extremely walkable. Start moving things away from the dorms/apartments, you risk losing that appeal.

[bombermwc]

AMEN. That was one of the best things about going there. I could park behind the library and be smack dab in the middle of campus. You can treat your car like a locker and walk less than 5 minutes in any direction. With the new dorm, the west side of campus is a little closer than it was just because it's in the old Frederickson Fieldhouse land.

What's interesting is that you're seeing north campus turning athletic. There's a stretch from east to west with the Soccer, Softball, and Baseball fields....plus Freede. If Tennis ever comes back as part of the push to D1, I would imagine that will plop into the same area.

I don't really know that you can call any area focussed for graduate though. Each group stays within their own building...Music/Busines/Comp Sci/Law. And they are spread from one corner to the other. If Law built on the East side of campus, then it would be much closer to the vast majority of Graduate school students...ie Music and Business.