Team play since PJ Carleismo fired?

[dalelakin]

Why when we finally get a team, does it have to be THE worst?????

The successful ones usually aren't for sale?

[jbrown84]

Well said, betts. The losses that are as close as last night are disappointing, but I will continue to support them by going to as many games as possible, just as I supported OU during the Blake and Schnellenberger years.

[Easy180]

Spotted this on ESPN and it pretty much sums up what us fans are going thru

Bad team, intriguing young options

Posted by John Cregan, Special to ESPN.com

With only three games to track Monday night, I had the luxury of being able to watch a large portion of every contest. And while the marquee matchup in NBA terms was easily Jazz-Suns (more on that in a bit), I was particularly interested in one squad: the Oklahoma City Thunder.

I enjoy watching their home games because of their enthusiastic fans, who seem to have an absurdly enormous tolerance for pain. Thunder fans can absorb an enormous amount of punishment, yet vociferously applaud even the most marginally positive development. I don't have these numbers, but I bet the divorce rate in that area is fantastically low.

I also like watching the Thunder because I believe them to be a fantasy gold mine. They're a 1-10 team in a comparatively small market. They're about as far off the NBA fantasy radar as you can get. (I would have used a stock market analogy, but that would have just upset most of you -- unless, of course, you're a Thunder fan, with your superhuman imperviousness to pain). They're playing for next season, and it's not even Thanksgiving (unless you're a Raptor fan). I don't mean this as an insult, but they're about one chromosome removed from being an NBA Development League team.

[bombermwc]

Well they sucked in Seattle, so it's not like we expected them to magically improve by moving to OKC or anything. Yes they are all very new, we don't reall have much old talent on the team. But SERIOUSLY, come on. They are making mistakes they wouldn't have been able to get away with in college, so why are they doing it now? You'll see them behind in a game and most of the team gives up. It's like they don't even try. Good example, rather than looking for a pass, someone will just go for a jumper and not have even planted their feet before the shoot way out behind the arc. Fundamentals folks.....

[OKCDrummer77]

I don't have these numbers, but I bet the divorce rate in that area is fantastically low.

If ONLY this were true...

[wallyboy75]

I have never been of real fan of PJ. He has a losing record and is famous for being choked by one of his players when he was at Golden State. I think Scott Brooks is a better fit since the players are playng with more heart and emotion now.

[Easy180]

Lead story on ESPN.com...More national exposure for the Thunder...

Oklahoma City lost to Charlotte 103-97 on Wednesday, dropping the Thunder to 2-17 on the season and putting them in a rather undesirable position as the season nears the quarter pole. At this rate, the Thunder will finish with a record of 9-73, which would tie them for the worst record of all time.
This raises some interesting questions. Just how bad are the Thunder, and what are their odds of having the worst record in league history?

Certainly, the "worst team ever" label is within the realm of possibility based on how the Thunder have played so far. Oklahoma City is dead last in the Power Rankings, and the Playoff Odds have them pegged for a 15-67 finish. In fact, in the worst of the 5,000 simulated seasons we ran, they finished just 3-79.

Although that possibility is extremely far-fetched, there is a sliver of a chance that the Thunder could tie the standard of awfulness set by the 1972-73 Philadelphia team. After 19 games, they're one game ahead of the Sixers' pace from that year. (You can see all the worst 82-game seasons here and compare the Thunder to the 76ers here.)

But all these scenarios depend on whether the Thunder continue to play as badly during the next 63 games as they've played in the first 19. And for a variety of reasons, I don't expect that to happen.

For starters, they've played more respectably since replacing P.J. Carlesimo with Scotty Brooks. Under their new coach, the Thunder are 1-5 with an average scoring margin of minus eight points. Although this is still terrible, it's a big improvement on the 1-12 mark and minus-12.3 margin under Carlesimo. (And as one Seattle jokester noted, Brooks already tied Carlesimo's record for the most wins by a coach in Thunder history.)

Second, Oklahoma City's best players are young. This is important, as they can be expected to improve throughout the course of the season. Although there's the so-called rookie wall, most rookies (and second-year players) play better statistically as the season goes on.

Kevin Durant (17.27 player efficiency rating), Jeff Green (14.25) and Russell Westbrook (14.16) own three of the top four PERs on the squad. Westbrook is a rookie point guard who didn't play the position in college and is learning on the fly, while the other two are NBA sophomores. We can reasonably expect each of the three to put up better numbers as the season goes on; they also should get better on D as they gain valuable experience.

Third, the Thunder's veterans have pretty seriously underperformed their career norms, to the point that one has to think they'll bounce back sharply in the next 63 games. Most of these guys aren't old, either -- they're mid-20s types such as Chris Wilcox, Nick Collison, Damien Wilkins and Earl Watson.

For no apparent reason, those four players in particular have made a serious turn for the worse this season. Wilcox is 26 years old and has a 12.75 PER; he was better than 16 the previous three seasons. Collison is 28 and has a PER of 11.15; he was better than 14 the previous four seasons. Wilkins is 28 and is at just 9.08 after being a useful reserve in his other seasons. And Watson is 29 and has a mark of just 7.44, barely half what he'd done in his previous six seasons.

It's possible that all four players suddenly became awful, but it's far more likely that it's just a 20-game fluke and their numbers will return to something more normal. Because those four are likely to see their numbers rebound, and the three youngsters also are likely to put up better numbers as the season goes on, that gives us seven key rotation players who are likely to play a lot better than they've done so far.

And that, in turn, leads us to the conclusion that the Thunder will be better than they've shown so far. Not good enough to do anything of significance, probably, or even to avoid the worst record in the league. But at the end of the day, it seems to me they'll easily surpass the nine-win threshold of historic awfulness and finish with about 18 to 20 victories.

Historic awfulness always requires a confluence of factors -- a perfect storm of horrendous play. In this case, it probably would take multiple injuries, as well as trades of several veterans, for the Thunder to truly threaten the Sixers' mark.

So far we've seen just about the worst-case scenario for the Thunder. Unless it continues, they'll be able to escape the notoriety of becoming known as the NBA's worst team ever.

John Hollinger writes for ESPN Insider. To e-mail him, click here.

[betts]

How about Westbrook's 30 points last night? The game with Miami was tied with a little over 5 minutes to go. This team needed to learn how to play a full 48 minutes, and they are approaching that number. We just need to learn how to finish out games. However, in the games where we're tied or close at the end of the game, the other team has a superstar who basically takes the opposing team on his back and wins it for them. We don't have that player....yet.

[bombermwc]

They have improved, as they say, we're losing by fewer points than before. We just have to be able to nudge that over the edge. There have been plenty games that we could have won had we been doing the job the whole game. It can't come in every once in a while, it has to be the WHOLE game. From start to finish. Give them a little more time with the new coach and we'll see what happens.

Worse case, we get through season 1 here and rebuild next year. We, the Thunder Fans, have shown that we still enjoy the game and will cheer loudly...even when we expect to lose. It's the fun of the game...but if they play like crap, then it's not fun anymore.

[betts]

Tonight was fun, up until the last couple of minutes. I think this year we, as fans, need to stop focusing on the W and L part of the experience. Did anybody not love Desmond's three blocks? Wasn't it exciting when we were up by 20 in the first half? In the moment, there were two hours of entertainment followed by a few minutes of let down. We are a bad team, and we're going to stay a bad team this year. Let's enjoy the fun moments, worry less about the Ws and Ls and look forward to the interesting changes that will occur on this team over the next couple of years.

Everyone is so worried about breaking Philadelphia's record for the worst season. First of all, chances are we won't. Somebody will show up at the Ford tired or lazy, later in the season teams that aren't making the playoffs will be playing their young bench and we'll snag some wins. But, even if we do, until the record was brought up, could anybody reading this honestly say they ever gave that record two seconds' thought? Does anybody here really think about the Lions record very often? We, because we live here, and because we think people of a particular city or state should be "embarrassed" if their teams aren't good, spend too much time worrying about what other people in the country think of our teams. Regardless of what happens, next year people will move on to some other topic, although I must confess I wish Isiah were still around getting all the negative NBA press

[Easy180]

I hear ya Betts but I'm not sure if I have seen a team in any sport that falls apart at the end of EVERY game like this team...Weird feeling with the Thunder up 21 and still expecting them to somehow find a way to blow it

Practice has to suck for the players...Can't imagine what these guys are going thru coming from highly successful high school and college teams

[betts]

Last night was almost a complete game. Mason was really pissed off at the end of the game, because he thought the refs were giving Dirk waaaay to much leeway, and not calling him for illegal screens. I'd trust the person on the floor at the time.

But, hopefully the players had reinforced that they can play with the better teams, if they give it their all. What they have to figure out, is how not to play down to the other bad teams in the league like Memphis and Minnesota.

I heard on the radio yesterday, from someone who goes to practice, that the practices are actually really positive. I think the team likes Coach Brooks, and I guess they're stressing what is working, and not talking about the losses as much. That's what we need to do. These are young guys, and they need to look forward so they can stay positive. We don't need a losing mentality. It's hard enough to win without one.

[bombermwc]

So did I see right that we almost beat Dallas? 99-103.....that's closer than the Hornets ever got to them (until they finally beat them). I havent followed the Mavericks much, but they seem like a much more respectable team to almost beat than Memphis. I mean they do have almost twice the wins.

So I'm getting a good feeling here if we played that much better and came that close against Dallas, I see a brighter future for the Thunder. But seriously, at least the team has aknowledged that we're going to support them even if they suck. Right now we expect to lose each game, but we go and we cheer loud and enjoy the game. As long as they are trying, we're cheering. I sometimes wonder if we were in the middle ground, would we be as supportive if we didn't know for sure what the outcome was....would we end up like Charolette.

[betts]

But originally, when the Hornets were there, the city of Charlotte sold out season tickets for 7 years in a row, in a much bigger arena. I don't know for sure, but I think Charlotte was about the size of Oklahoma City at the time. The Hornets won 18 and 20 games their first two seasons. I think the biggest problem in Oklahoma City is that the Hornets came to Oklahoma City with the same record as the Sonics, and managed to amaze us by actually winning 30+ games. A lot of people thought it was the crowds, which probably were somewhat of a factor. But the biggest factor was probably Chris Paul, whom we now know is going to be a Hall of Fame player, if he has no early career ending injuries, and perhaps a group of players who had personalities that were more influenced by a loud, rowdy crowd.

If people want a little hope, though, the Hornets in 2004/5 didn't win their 3rd game until they'd had 27 losses, and they went on to win 18 games (which is starting to sound good!)

[Turanacus]

Ev Ree Bod Dee Clap Your Hands . . . clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap

[jbrown84]

clap clap clap clap. my hands hurt.