Midtown Properties For Sale

[MikeOKC]

Believe what you wanna Mike...

And you the same because you are very wrong. Where did you hear such garbage? Spreading unkind and blatantly false rumors is really reprehensible. Bob Howard nor anybody else forced Greg Banta out of ANYTHING. Now if we could just figure out who mcgrawsdad is, we'd know who to complain to. I'll meet you anytime, anywhere, to discuss Midtown and the truth about Greg's departure. You have lied about a very good man who does a lot for Oklahoma City. What do you do? (Besides spread gossip?)

[The Old Downtown Guy]

And you the same because you are very wrong. Where did you hear such garbage? Spreading unkind and blatantly false rumors is really reprehensible. Bob Howard nor anybody else forced Greg Banta out of ANYTHING. Now if we could just figure out who mcgrawsdad is, we'd know who to complain to. I'll meet you anytime, anywhere, to discuss Midtown and the truth about Greg's departure. You have lied about a very good man who does a lot for Oklahoma City. What do you do? (Besides spread gossip?)

One of the unfortunate facts about internet forums like OKCTalk is the anonymity of hiding behind User Names. It promotes outlandish undocumented claims rather than genuine, honest open discussion of issues.

Michael Smith

Pray For World Peace . . . pass it on

[Steve]

Jonathan (mcgrawsdad), not sure if you remember me - I along with Bryan Dean covered your race against Carolyn Caudill. It sounds like you're either involved or are close to some who are involved with the MidTown project. All this discussion reminds of my j-school days in college when a wise professor had us watch the 1950 film "Rashomon." It was very helpful in understanding that five different people can tell five very different versions of a story - and they're all thinking they're telling the truth.

A reporter's job should be to listen to those different versions, look at the evidence and the veracity of those telling the stories, and then do their best to provide a balanced report based on all things considered (that's not to say you can put in EVERY point of view - there is a limit to every story).

I'm probably going to draw some heat again here, but this whole discussion is another example of the weakness of sites like this where people are allowed to be anonymous. Old Downtown Guy has made no attempt to hide his identity - he's Michael Smith, a longtime MidTown and Uptown advocate and a MidTown property owner who has been very involved in its resurgence. So you can't dismiss his information. And he's right Jonathan - I've seen no big slowdown in MidTown and as I've reported, Bob Howard and Mickey Clagg are continuing what Greg started.
As for the changes in what Greg is up to, there's a bit of truth but also some glaring inaccuracies in everything I'm reading in this thread based on my conversations with ... (get ready for this - major shocker) Greg. I can't help but wonder what it must be like for him to have these online conversations about him going on by people who may have never talked to him personally.
Now, one final note before the digital torches are re-lit and the pitchforks are sharpened: I remain a big fan of OKC Talk, I've repeatedly promoted in my coverage and will continue to do so. I think it's probably one of the best community forums around.
Now go ahead and get those matches...
Love Steve

[metro]

One of the unfortunate facts about internet forums like OKCTalk is the anonymity of hiding behind User Names. It promotes outlandish undocumented claims rather than genuine, honest open discussion of issues.

Michael Smith

Pray For World Peace . . . pass it on

I don't know if I buy that. Legit information from the inside also gets out on the internet that otherwise would be controlled by the good ole boy networks. Heck, Steve and others have openly admitted to getting legit leads from OKCTalk. I'm anonymous (well sorta), but does that make me a bad poster or post inaccurate information. I'd be willing to say my track record leans to be more accurate than not. That's not saying some leads I posted fell through, just like any other poster on this forum (anonymous or not). There are enough intelligent posters on most forums to weed out the b.s. and world peace won't happen in an imperfect world who belives in relativity.

[Steve]

interesting....

[metro]

Maybe Metro, or maybe not. One's perspective can depend on whose ox is getting gored by the anonymous. I've seen this board buy into some things that I knew from the start were outright lies that started with anonymous posters.

True, but I'm anonymous for the most part, yeah you and ODTG and a few others know who I am, but that doesn't mean I post false information more than I do true. Heck, you and other journalists have told me you get leads from me on occasion. There are pro's and con's to online anonymity. I think the pro's outweight the cons IMO.

[Steve]

Geez Metro, you respond too fast. I tried to yank that... really, I've got enough headaches in life to get drawn into a debate on this.

[metro]

haha, you know I'm just messing with you Steve, got to keep you journalists on your toes you know!

[mcgrawsdad]

And you the same because you are very wrong. Where did you hear such garbage? Spreading unkind and blatantly false rumors is really reprehensible. Bob Howard nor anybody else forced Greg Banta out of ANYTHING. Now if we could just figure out who mcgrawsdad is, we'd know who to complain to. I'll meet you anytime, anywhere, to discuss Midtown and the truth about Greg's departure. You have lied about a very good man who does a lot for Oklahoma City. What do you do? (Besides spread gossip?)

I will be happy to meet you anytime anywhere to discuss personally you calling me a liar!

[jbrown84]

I don't know if I buy that. Legit information from the inside also gets out on the internet that otherwise would be controlled by the good ole boy networks. Heck, Steve and others have openly admitted to getting legit leads from OKCTalk. I'm anonymous (well sorta), but does that make me a bad poster or post inaccurate information. I'd be willing to say my track record leans to be more accurate than not. That's not saying some leads I posted fell through, just like any other poster on this forum (anonymous or not). There are enough intelligent posters on most forums to weed out the b.s. and world peace won't happen in an imperfect world who belives in relativity.

Why so defensive? Neither Steve nor Michael said that this board was worthless or that the presence of anonymous posting defeats any good OKCTalk can do. Both of them post here frequently.

[jbrown84]

I will be happy to meet you anytime anywhere to discuss personally you calling me a liar!

You could start by explaining yourself here. Multiple people are defending Greg and no one is corroberating your story.

[mcgrawsdad]

Jonathan (mcgrawsdad), not sure if you remember me - I along with Bryan Dean covered your race against Carolyn Caudill. It sounds like you're either involved or are close to some who are involved with the MidTown project. All this discussion reminds of my j-school days in college when a wise professor had us watch the 1950 film "Rashomon." It was very helpful in understanding that five different people can tell five very different versions of a story - and they're all thinking they're telling the truth.

A reporter's job should be to listen to those different versions, look at the evidence and the veracity of those telling the stories, and then do their best to provide a balanced report based on all things considered (that's not to say you can put in EVERY point of view - there is a limit to every story).

I'm probably going to draw some heat again here, but this whole discussion is another example of the weakness of sites like this where people are allowed to be anonymous. Old Downtown Guy has made no attempt to hide his identity - he's Michael Smith, a longtime MidTown and Uptown advocate and a MidTown property owner who has been very involved in its resurgence. So you can't dismiss his information. And he's right Jonathan - I've seen no big slowdown in MidTown and as I've reported, Bob Howard and Mickey Clagg are continuing what Greg started.
As for the changes in what Greg is up to, there's a bit of truth but also some glaring inaccuracies in everything I'm reading in this thread based on my conversations with ... (get ready for this - major shocker) Greg. I can't help but wonder what it must be like for him to have these online conversations about him going on by people who may have never talked to him personally.
Now, one final note before the digital torches are re-lit and the pitchforks are sharpened: I remain a big fan of OKC Talk, I've repeatedly promoted in my coverage and will continue to do so. I think it's probably one of the best community forums around.
Now go ahead and get those matches...
Love Steve

Steve...I agree 100%, all parties believe what they are telling is the truth. I am ecstatic that Banta's former partners are continuing some of the proposed projects. That being said, those individuals are in a unique situation where funding the project is not an unknown. Had those individuals not been in the unique position to self-fund the project themselves you would be left with a glut of mid-town properties on the market and a definite slowdown. The credit markets are non-existant currently, particularly for speculative commercial properties. If you even want to think about doing a commercial deal right now you need to have lease agreements in place for the majority of the project and/or pre-sales locked up on the majority of the project before the lender is gonna green light anything.

[mcgrawsdad]

You could start by explaining yourself here. Multiple people are defending Greg and no one is corroberating your story.

That's fine...if you review my post I always stated "my opinion"...I stand by my statement regarding the departure of banta from the partnership. Heck, you can go back and read some of Steve's old articles (particularly the article outlining howard and clagg's plans) and see that at the very least, the departure was welcomed. Also, imo, a slow down of midtown is occurring, particularly if you review the scope of planned projects just one year ago with the scope of what is actually occurring. We can look at this through rose colored glasses or realistically. Is progress still occurring, yes, to the same degree it was one year ago? No...

[Steve]

It sounds like you guys need to go to McNellies, consume vast quantities from their tap, and come out best of friends. Although Greg and I are fellow Oklahoma Christian University alums, I can assure you he would get a kick out of that.

[mcgrawsdad]

That sounds like a great idea...McNellies is walking distance so you don't even have to worry about a designated driver.

[jbrown84]

You wouldn't have McNellie's if it weren't for Greg Banta.

Also, imo, a slow down of midtown is occurring, particularly if you review the scope of planned projects just one year ago with the scope of what is actually occurring.

Maybe the slowdown has a lot more to do with the national economy than anything Banta did. Hmm...

[Steve]

My suggestion: wait until COOP Ale gets added at McNellies and go for the DNR.

[onthestrip]

You could start by explaining yourself here. Multiple people are defending Greg and no one is corroberating your story.

For what its worth, I had heard the same things mcgraw has stated about the situation.

[MikeOKC]

mcgrawsdad, Just to make it clear, you said "in my opinion" about several things involving construction projects and financing, but nowhere did you say it was just your opinion that Banta was "forced out." Here is what you wrote:

Mike...don't pee down my back and tell me its raining. Banta was forced out by his partners and money men because they no longer had the patience to deal with his continual excuses as to why construction was not getting completed. I do not fault banta except in the fact that it was a tremendous project he was trying to complete and you should know better than trying to develop a learning curve on a project in which you have staked your whole professional reputation on. I sincerely hope he comes out on top of all of this and continues to do well.

This was your first mention of his being "forced out." Where does it say that it's only your opinion? It seems to state Greg was forced out as fact.

Steve: I think you have a very valid point about your old J-School experiment. I also would think Greg would be surprised at some of what has been said in this thread. Much of it news to him.

I also have a problem at times with the anonymity question because it allows anybody to say anything about anybody and it gets passed from one to another without attribution. That's one reason I worry about the decline of the newspapers. Who's going to do the real reporting? Trained journalists or "SomebodySaid".

[Steve]

Well Mike, I'm glad to hear that and I hope you're subscribing!

[mcgrawsdad]

mcgrawsdad, Just to make it clear, you said "in my opinion" about several things involving construction projects and financing, but nowhere did you say it was just your opinion that Banta was "forced out." Here is what you wrote:

Mike...don't pee down my back and tell me its raining. Banta was forced out by his partners and money men because they no longer had the patience to deal with his continual excuses as to why construction was not getting completed. I do not fault banta except in the fact that it was a tremendous project he was trying to complete and you should know better than trying to develop a learning curve on a project in which you have staked your whole professional reputation on. I sincerely hope he comes out on top of all of this and continues to do well.

This was your first mention of his being "forced out." Where does it say that it's only your opinion? It seems to state Greg was forced out as fact.

Steve: I think you have a very valid point about your old J-School experiment. I also would think Greg would be surprised at some of what has been said in this thread. Much of it news to him.

I also have a problem at times with the anonymity question because it allows anybody to say anything about anybody and it gets passed from one to another without attribution. That's one reason I worry about the decline of the newspapers. Who's going to do the real reporting? Trained journalists or "SomebodySaid".

I believe it to be fact that he was forced out, but really at this juncture, it is a moot point. You should be more cautious with how quickly and whom you label as "liars"...where I come from calling someone a liar and talking about someone's momma are the two ultimate no-no's. Highly offensive. BTW, I don't think I'm the one hiding behind anonymity here. Anyway, I have more important things to do besides argue semantics over why/how someone's partnership ended.

[MikeOKC]

I believe it to be fact that he was forced out, but really at this juncture, it is a moot point. You should be more cautious with how quickly and whom you label as "liars"...where I come from calling someone a liar and talking about someone's momma are the two ultimate no-no's. Highly offensive. BTW, I don't think I'm the one hiding behind anonymity here. Anyway, I have more important things to do besides argue semantics over why/how someone's partnership ended.

I never called you a liar. The word was never used. How do I call you on what I believe to be an untruth without saying I think it's not true? It's a circular argument. But I never used the term "liar" and never would on a forum such as this. You could say YOU called ME a liar with your "Don't pee down my back" comment. You're right, it's a silly semantic argument. I will let it lie in peace.

[MikeOKC]

Well Mike, I'm glad to hear that and I hope you're subscribing!

I subscribe to The Oklahoman via the Kindle! I sent you a PM about it. As I understand it from Amazon, a newspaper actually makes more profit per Kindle subscriber than print subscriber. I cost no paper, ink or delivery. I think it's very important to support newspapers.

[BoulderSooner]

For what its worth, I had heard the same things mcgraw has stated about the situation.

Ditto