David Glover doesn't even live in OKC

[fubaduba]

I live in Oklahoma City. Im 37, Im a man and I vote come talk to me (said in yelling Mike Gundy voice if you missed the reference.)

Heres this

Channel 4 is owned by Oak Hill Capitol Partners, a Ft Worth group
Channel 5 is owned by Hearst Argyle, a NYC group
Channels 25 & 34 owned by Sinclair out of Maryland
Channel 43 is Oak Hill out of Texas as well
The Sports animal and JOX radio are Citadel out of Nevada
KTOK is Clear Channel out of San Antonio

KSBI 52 interests were recently purchased by Chesapeake guys
The Daily Oklahoman's Mr Gaylord, well we know his son in law is Bennett

Only channel 9 is locally owned.

Lay off David.

[Patrick]

Hopefully, we'll have a "Yes" win on March 4th. But more importantly, Senator Barack Obama has a chance to win Ohio and Texas that day and pretty much put away the Democratic nomination for President. To me, that's the most important election of the day.

Agreed! Go Obama!

Sorry for saying you should go "back" to the Republican Party. I could have sworn I read where you were once a Republican. I was obviously mistaken and I apologize. Though, many of your posts here - especially concerning this vote - show an elitism that fits in much better with the GOP. Standing up for corporations and deriding small business is not a typically "liberal Democratic" position.

Sometimes it's hard to actually know where a person really stands on a message board. But, those that know me well here, know I'm pretty liberal (except for religious issues), and have always been a huge Democrat. I can't say I've ever voted for a Republican....ever. Oh, I voted for Mick for mayor twice, but they don't vote by party in city elections. But, if you read my comments in the Politics section, it's pretty obvious I'm a Democrat. I've been one of the most vocal supporters of Barack Obama. I support him for many reasons, but mainly because he has a solution for the war in Iraq.

I'm sorry if I've appeared to show elitism. That's never been my intent. I'm far from perfect or right on issues, and I appreciate when people set me straight on issues. I've never meant to come across that way.

I was standing up for McClendon and Ward for what they've accomplished personally, but I'm very anti-big corporation. I was raised in a very strong union household, and would never stray from that. I saw the good that unions do in fighting for the little guy against a big corporation. If it weren't for the union, my father would've never gotten the benefits he did, while he was working.

I saw what big corporations do when my wife was let go from ONG without warning, because they decided that they weren't going to let her off for her wedding! How cruel is that? Most big corporations don't care about their employees...all they care about is the work they can get out of them. And when they're not producing anymore, they simply drop them at the drop of a hat without warning. Just look at what Dell did recently. I'm for Big Government, and for slapping tax hikes on these companies that lay off American workers and outsource jobs. I'm for putting an end, once and for all, to Big Oil, which has experienced great times and profits thanks to our VP, the king of big oil, and his side kick, Bush.

Anyways, back to topic, I do respect David Glover for the job he does. But, I will admit that there are some of us out there with jobs that just don't benefit the local job market/economy much.....mine included.

As for my job, I'm a big fan of socialized medicine, so don't be surprised if you see me working for the VA or for OUHSC in a few years. It doesn't pay as much as private practice, but it's much needed. And money isn't that important to me.

[Patrick]

I live in Oklahoma City. Im 37, Im a man and I vote come talk to me (said in yelling Mike Gundy voice if you missed the reference.)

Heres this

Channel 4 is owned by Oak Hill Capitol Partners, a Ft Worth group
Channel 5 is owned by Hearst Argyle, a NYC group
Channels 25 & 34 owned by Sinclair out of Maryland
Channel 43 is Oak Hill out of Texas as well
The Sports animal and JOX radio are Citadel out of Nevada
KTOK is Clear Channel out of San Antonio

KSBI 52 interests were recently purchased by Chesapeake guys
The Daily Oklahoman's Mr Gaylord, well we know his son in law is Bennett

Only channel 9 is locally owned.

Lay off David.

You're thinking of David Griffin, owner of Griffin Communications, which owns Channel 9 in OKC and Channel 6 in Tulsa.

We're talking about David Glover here, a citizen of The Village, local hang gliding enthusiast, opponent of the March 4th vote.

[fubaduba]

cute.

I was saying that all these outlets are selling this thing, and they have no interest in Oklahoma City...just their companies that are located outside of Oklahoma City.

I think instead of the reimbursement wording on the ballott, there should be something about a subsidy that will help locally owned media get the broadcast rights to the games, rather than these myopic corporate interests like Nevada's Citadel, Texas's Clear Channel, Texas's KFOR and KAUT, Maryland's 25 and 34 etc...

Also I think David Glover has more an interest in okc than the above what with his him living literally feet from okc proper, and his mother, father, and brother living in okc proper.

hello?

[bornhere]

Ed Gaylord is dead, by the way. If anyone were capable of reaching out from beyond the grave to pull strings around here, it would be him, but I don't think that's the case.

His daughter, Christy Gaylord Everest, is current CEO of the Oklahoman (and Bennett's sister in law).

[betts]

Whatever that means.
You said you agreed with me on all that I wrote about diverse occupations and how we're all a part of the quilt, the fabric of our city, state and nation. Yet you made fun of Glover's occupation. Frankly, that made me mad. The fact he has turned a hobby into a profession is something I envy. I wish we all could be so lucky..

I don't think it matters at all what his profession is. I just thought it was interesting that someone who doesn't live in OKC is spearheading the campaign. He does have a close shopping option in the Village, at least for groceries and fast food.

Some of you are making it harder for me to pinch my nose and vote "yes." I just cannot believe the attitude so many of you have for anybody who dares oppose this thing. It is something else.

I think people have a perfect right to oppose this. I just wish they would state their case honestly. There's a lot of criticism of Mick Cornett for his "taxes will not increase" statment by the people who are voting no. But I think exaggerating the amount people will pay on the average for this tax, and assuring them that we will get a team even if the tax doesn't pass, when everyone with authority has assured us that is not the case, seems a little like twisting facts for political ends as well. If they're going to criticize the mayor for using semantics, of "lying", they need to keep their noses squeaky clean. And trust me, solitude, there are places on the internet where the opposing side is as, if not more, malicious in their treatment of people on the "yes" side than the group you are referring to here. What I'm trying to say is, there is bad behavior on both sides. Neither side should be throwing stones at the other.

Hopefully, we'll have a "Yes" win on March 4th. But more importantly, Senator Barack Obama has a chance to win Ohio and Texas that day and pretty much put away the Democratic nomination for President. To me, that's the most important election of the day..

I am probably a wee bit more nervous/excited about the former, but I would be thrilled with the latter. I'm also pretty excited Obama won Oklahoma City, despite his poor showing in some parts of the state.

I don't think there's anything noble about large corporations. Like I could care less what DG's occupation is, I don't think the fact that the Sonics owners are wealthy should have anything to do with this vote either. I would like to have a team here, for many reasons, many of which I think would be very beneficial to my city. For all their faults, real or presumed, I do think the owners of the Sonics are truly committed to Oklahoma City. They've been philanthropists and civic leaders, and I honestly consider bringing a team to Oklahoma City an act of philanthropy.

Also, I don't want to lose all the good concerts to Tulsa and their new arena. When I moved here, all the good concerts went to Tulsa, and people here drove there for them. When we got the Ford Center, things started changing. I don't want to go back to driving there, and I fear their new arena will be stiff competition if we don't improve ours.

[DavidGlover]

Some of you people are funny. I live in the Village, if you look at a map it is surrounded by OKC. Most of my spending is in OKC, but that doesn't matter. This is a tax vote, that will impact everyone. It will cost the average OKC resident $150 (every man, woman and child). These are the city's numbers - not mine. The taxpayers would fund changes to the arena so a new tenant can make more money. 90% of he people I talk with are against corporate welfare.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Some of you people are funny. I live in the Village, if you look at a map it is surrounded by OKC. Most of my spending is in OKC, but that doesn't matter. This is a tax vote, that will impact everyone. It will cost the average OKC resident $150 (every man, woman and child). These are the city's numbers - not mine. The taxpayers would fund changes to the arena so a new tenant can make more money. 90% of he people I talk with are against corporate welfare.

No, YOU'RE funny.

Ha.

Ha.

...

[Karried]

David, you said you live in the Village meaning you won't even have to pay taxes at all.

But if you do, ( what did you say $10) a month, which btw, doesn't add up.. but regardless, is a drop in the bucket. Not to mention after businesses pay their fare share, it will be even less.

I look at this as being similar to staging a home when you ready to sell it. You drop some money in the beginning to improve and upgrade the home and then reap the benefits when it sells.


Come on.. 10 bucks a month for years and years of positive, beneficial returns for the city... hey you're gettin a tax rebate, you'll never miss your $10. People spend that on Starbucks in a day!

Have you missed the few cents that Maps charged you? And are you enjoying all the benefits and perks of the improvements Maps paid for?

I can understand someone not wanting this vote for personal reasons but the information has to be accurate if you're going public with it and trying to change people's minds.

I'm not targeting just you David, you probably feel as strongly as I do.. just on the wrong side.. lol.. I'm extremely passionate about this issue and yes, we are all, but we need to make every attempt to not make it personal and focus on the issues at hand.

Vote Yes March 4th!

[betts]

What precisely is corporate welfare? How does it relate to this situation? If we are getting something for our money, can that than be considered welfare? If the Sonics' owners do not own the Ford Center, and the Blazers and Yard Dawgs benefit, and we get more concerts and events, who precisely are the welfare recipients? Just curious as to what your thoughts on this are.

[Easy180]

Some of you people are funny. I live in the Village, if you look at a map it is surrounded by OKC. Most of my spending is in OKC, but that doesn't matter. This is a tax vote, that will impact everyone. It will cost the average OKC resident $150 (every man, woman and child). These are the city's numbers - not mine. The taxpayers would fund changes to the arena so a new tenant can make more money. 90% of he people I talk with are against corporate welfare.

City owned arena...That fact is hard to spin...Taxpayers also may fund changes to an arena because it simply isn't good enough to host a major league tenant long term and they want a great venue for a variety of events they attend

Tulsa is almost done with a $200 mil arena that won't have a major league tenant

Realizing the current version of the Ford just won't cut it isn't really that difficult to grasp

The corporate welfare police should hold out until rumors of a brand new arena start swirling...This little one year one center is beyond a bargain for having a great arena and an NBA team playing in it 41 nights a year for years to come

[windowphobe]

That $150 figure is pure hogwash. We're talking one cent on the dollar, so to generate an extra $150 you'd have to spend $15,000 in a year.

What's that? A family of five can easily spend $300 a week on groceries? True enough. But Glover and company claim it's $150 from every man, woman and child, so Mom, Dad, and each of the kids needs to drop $300 at the Homeland every week - $1500 total - to make those numbers come out.

If you're going to take a No Subsidies stance, it needs to be universal: no subsidies for anybody, anywhere, at any time. See how well that works out.

I have some issues with the Chamber of Commerce's numbers, too, but questionable methodology is a lot more forgivable than blatant BS.

[OSUFan]

David, I have agreed with nothing you have said about this campaign. You accuse one side of empty rhetoric and have truths when you are doing the same.

That said, from hearing you speak on tv I can tell you are not a stupid individual. I don't care where you got your numbers anyone with half a brain can do some simple math and see the $150 doesn't work.

If every "man, women and child" spent $150 dollars on this the citizens of OKC would more than pay for this. We wouldn't need out of town dollars or buisness tax dollars to do this. The $150 is simply dividing the cost of this project by the population of OKC which is not the correct way.

Also, that means a family of four would contribute $600. Will there be some families where this is the case? Maybe but that means the familt would spend $60,000 on food and retail alone over the life of the tax in OKC. In a city where the average income in $35,000 that is a little hard for me to swallow.

The thruth is there is not way to figure an average per family. Everybody will contribute vastly different amount to this.

[Karried]

That is a little bit of what I've been trying to figure out.. if you are truly 'poor' or destitute, you don't buy very much to be taxed on anyway, right?

1 % of nothing is, well ... nothing.

I know Cigarettes, Alcohol and what is it 4% on groceries ( which is ridiculous to tax food, but that is another topic), Utilities, Gas? ... but if people are truly poor and are still buying tobacco and alcohol then they can certainly afford another penny.

People who spend the most money are those who will really be paying the most taxes... and it's their choice to make the big purchases and hopefully can afford to do so.

Maybe I'm not understanding but I don't buy the 'taxing the poor' argument.

[solitude]

It should be noted that no NBA city has ever used a sales tax as the source of public contribution to arenas. Not one.

I'm voting "yes" but we have to be able to see that the opposition can have valid arguments against this thing without all the name-calling. There's fuzzy math on both sides, but the fact that no NBA city has ever used a sales tax is not disputable.

[Patrick]

Some of you people are funny. I live in the Village, if you look at a map it is surrounded by OKC. Most of my spending is in OKC, but that doesn't matter. This is a tax vote, that will impact everyone. It will cost the average OKC resident $150 (every man, woman and child). These are the city's numbers - not mine. The taxpayers would fund changes to the arena so a new tenant can make more money. 90% of he people I talk with are against corporate welfare.

You're the one that's funny. Trying to take advantage of the time at the end of each council meeting given to citizens to voice their opinions, when you're not even a citizen of Oklahoma City.
What if I went and tried to talk smack at a Village council meeting. I bet they'd laugh and escort me out the door when they found out I wasn't a citizen of the Village.

[Easy180]

It should be noted that no NBA city has ever used a sales tax as the source of public contribution to arenas. Not one.

I'm voting "yes" but we have to be able to see that the opposition can have valid arguments against this thing without all the name-calling. There's fuzzy math on both sides, but the fact that no NBA city has ever used a sales tax is not disputable.

And that's why a lot of them are in a bad situation solitude...Love the short term - paid off routine that sets OKC apart from most other cities...If Seattle would have done that 12 years ago w/ the Key remodel there wouldn't be a story now

[solitude]

You're the one that's funny. Trying to take advantage of the time at the end of each council meeting given to citizens to voice their opinions, when you're not even a citizen of Oklahoma City.
What if I went and tried to talk smack at a Village council meeting. I bet they'd laugh and escort me out the door when they found out I wasn't a citizen of the Village.

Nope. If the actions of a city impacts on someone outside the city limits - they are welcome. All local governments in the metropolitan area recognize anyone from the metro area. The Village is surrounded by Oklahoma City. Obviously, people in The Village are impacted by the actions of decisions made in downtown Oklahoma City. In fact, isn't this the argument used by the proponents? That we shouldn't just count citizens of OKC in the tax base, because that's not reality? That's true, but it's true all the way around.

[Patrick]

Then there should be another time for them to talk during the meeting, not during the "citizens'" time.

[solitude]

And that's why a lot of them are in a bad situation solitude...Love the short term - paid off routine that sets OKC apart from most other cities...If Seattle would have done that 12 years ago w/ the Key remodel there wouldn't be a story now

Point well taken. Some who are against it though, obviously point to the fact that a sales tax is inherently regressive. But, you make a very good point as to the short-term payoff for this initial expenditure.

[Patrick]

I'm still trying to figure out how $10 a month adds up to $150 a year.

[Doug Loudenback]

David's math has been suspect from the day he spoke at the City Council ... see http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...tml#post128917 ... then he said that the number was $500 per voter.

It doesn't bother me that he does live in Okc city limits at all ... he lives in the metro and that's close enough for me.

[Patrick]

I'm a family of two, and we spend about $300 on groceries a month, and $300 on retail shopping/going out to eat. That's $600 a month, whic will mean 1% is going to the tax, which is $6 a month, or $72 a year. By the way, using David's math, that's $3 per person, NOT $10 per person, and $36 per person per year, not $150 per person.

I think that's a small price to pay for the impact this will have on our city.

And by the way, we've been paying this for the last 10+ years, so it's not like it's going to change my budget any.

[Doug Loudenback]

I'm a family of two, and we spend about $300 on groceries a month, and $300 on retail shopping/going out to eat. That's $600 a month, whic will mean 1% is going to the tax, which is $6 a month, or $72 a year. By the way, using David's math, that's $3 per person, NOT $10 per person, and $36 per person per year, not $150 per person.

I think that's a small price to pay for the impact this will have on our city.

And by the way, we've been paying this for the last 10+ years, so it's not like it's going to change my budget any.

The original MAPS vote passed in December 1993, to be exact!

[MadMonk]

Not defending Glover's position, but really the point about him not living in OKC is rather weak, unless you would have everyone who lives in the Village, Warr Acres, etc be exempt from OKC sales taxes.