Ford Center improvements up for March 4 vote

[BDP]

One good thing about keeping the taxes temporary, as opposed to permanent, is that it gives the voters the chance to pick and choose what they're willing to tax themselves for and it creates pressure to do the approved projects right if they ever want approval for anything else in the future.

[jbrown84]

Yeah I don't like the idea of a permanent tax not tied to specific projects.

I also don't think we should postpone MAPS 3. We've waited long enough. Either make the Ford Center improvements part of MAPS 3, or do them simultaneously.

[betts]

I'm not sure you can say that ugrading the Ford is going to benefit the community in terms of dollars, unless we get an NBA team. And I'm not a huge believer in the straight economic benefit of a professional team to a community. Basketball primarily brings in money from the community, as most people who attend games are local, so it's entertainment money that would otherwise be spent elsewhere. You do, however, have some out of town visitors, and if the team makes the playoffs, you do get out of town visitors who stay in hotels and eat out at restaurants.

But what I think you cannot measure, is the indirect value a professional team brings to a community. You may attract businesses that otherwise would choose other cities, you may retain more college graduates, as it increases the entertainment options, and you get a lot of free advertising for your city on ESPN during the season.

But, after having visited the Ford Center for the All College Tournament last night, I think it doesn't matter if we get an NBA team: the Ford Center is close to being an embarrassment. The concourses are bare bones and ugly, the bathrooms are disgusting, with cracks all over the stained floors and inadequate facilities, and the OU scoreboard makes the one at the Ford look bad. If we want to compete with arenas like the Sprint Center and perhaps even the BOK Center for the Big Twelve championship, it might help if our arena looked less low-budget. I'm a little embarrassed to bring out of town guests there.

[laokstate]

Are there published renditions of what Ford Center will look like after renovations? I hope you guys will get to see what you are voting on.

[bombermwc]

I'm not sure that the public will ever see much from this tax. It's more for things tha the team would use. Locker Room, practice facility....but we will see better merchandise areas, eateries, etc. But as far as the general public experience goes, it will be business pretty much as usual.

Don't let that discourage you though, because this is improtant. This is what we need and is exactlly what the Ford Center was designed for. They planned on this when they built the thing, and now it's time to make good on the deal. Seriously, how many other buildings in town have done so much to help a town?

[jbrown84]

Are there published renditions of what Ford Center will look like after renovations? I hope you guys will get to see what you are voting on.

Not yet, but there surely will be before the vote.

[betts]

They're talking about improved bathrooms (SERIOUSLY needed), some flooring other than concrete on the concourses and walls, and a new scoreboard, so those are all things we would experience. I'd like to vote for a new sound system as well. I agree that this is important, and in the same vein as the Civic Center renovation and other quality of life improvements in OKC.

[Doug Loudenback]

I'm not sure that the public will ever see much from this tax. * * * Seriously, how many other buildings in town have done so much to help a town?

The answer to the 1st answers the 2nd ... in 2 seasons, paid attendance at the Ford Center was one million, three hundred two thousand, two hundred twenty-three ... 1,302,223. Even given "repeaters," that's a lot of the public ... and it evidences why the 2nd sentence is so very true.

[HOT ROD]

Somebody argued that the "increase" generated by a professional team is neglegible considering that most ticket owners are local - the money would have been spent elsewhere.

Im not so sure I agree with that. Even if you consider Econ 101, you need a stimulous to have a growing economy. That was the SOLE purpose of MAPS in the first place - public dollars for economic stimulous.

Now, we've seen where that's got us. $390M in public money for a revamped downtown, including a barebones NBA/NHL acceptable STARTER arena to get their attention; this has so far equated to some $2.5B in private dollars!!!

And it was stated that the Hornets provided an economic stimulous of $60M per annum - and trust me, this was lots of dollars from Tulsa, Lawton, Wichita, and even the Dallas area (I'd venture to say 40% of the sales). These people ate at OKC restaurants and stayed at hotels - by the way, this is how they come up with the numbers (hotel/restaurant totals vs. NORMAL without the NBA).

So, there IS economic stimulous and I'd say there is REAL economic growth attributable to a permanent major-league team. Surely, I'd expect the $60M per annum to be even higher with a permanent franchise - especially since it will also include the WNBA, which will target ALL demographics and income levels!!

Somebody also argued, (I think it was Metro), why not increase the hotel/motel tax. Well, we should, but not to improve the ford center. OKC is not large enough nor has the large number of hotel rooms (luxury rooms) to justify having a large tax. If we raised the tax significantly, we will lose our competitive advantage that OKC has over EVERY city!!! Furthermore, it would take FOREVER to get the dollars in place from a hotel tax increase. Think about it,

I'd argue that OKC currently has over 14,000 hotel rooms (basically 2000 more than the circa 1996 total), and of those - only 900 rooms are AAA 4 diamond or higher (Renaissance Hotel 311 rooms + Colcord Hotel 151 rooms + Skirvin Hotel 250 rooms + Marriott Waterford 197! Even so, say we raised it 2 cents like metro said, and assume EVERY HOTEL ROOM WAS BOOKED EVERY NIGHT and the avg rate is $125; that would give us $35000 per day or ONLY $12.8M per annum. Now, we'd have to do that for 10 years in order to get the same money a 1 cent sales tax would generate. ....

[I agree we should raise it, but that (more realistic 70% occupancy) $8M a 2 cent increase in the hotel tax would generate should go toward Will Rogers World Airport and/or tourism purposes.]

Now, back to the 1 cent tax and Ford Center. ...

The idea is, improve the Ford Center to make it comparable to a top 10 building, secure a permanent franchise, and PACK THE DAMN ARENA ALL YEAR LONG with NBA games, WNBA games, concerts, and Conference/National sporting events!!!

Hopefully, and Im sure, this is the goal of the city - and once this happens, we will at LEAST make up that $125M - one year 1 cent tax extension, in less than two years with a team. And the team will be the beacon and shining star for Oklahoma City nationwide, OKC is finally on the map.

.. Can't beat that for a penny (heck, I'll gladly pay it for whoever is complaining when I visit).!!!

[Kerry]

Some people argue that pro-sports franchises don't deliver the economic value the report to. That is probably true. I am not sure Memphis is any better off with the NBA than they were before. I know Jacksonville, FL didn't reap all of the rewards they were promised when the Jags came to town.

However, there is the big difference. Places like Memphis and Jacksonville were looking at pro sports as the mechanism to spur development. This isn't the case in OKC. We look at a pro team as the finish line in a race started with the first MAPS vote. We don't need an NBA team to make OKC a great city - we made OKC great by investing in ourselfs and building a nice place to live. An NBA team will help OKC make the next step but OKC has a lot more going for it than the NBA. The Jags are an NFL team in an average city that is really going nowhere and the Grizzlies are an NBA in a still dirty city.

I see OKC more like Nashville. A city that picked itself up, dusted it self off, and got to work. The NBA is just one more piece of the plan - not THE plan.

[bombermwc]

The answer to the 1st answers the 2nd ... in 2 seasons, paid attendance at the Ford Center was one million, three hundred two thousand, two hundred twenty-three ... 1,302,223. Even given "repeaters," that's a lot of the public ... and it evidences why the 2nd sentence is so very true.

AMEN Doug! Hopefully you didn't think I was discounting the tax...I just meant that a lot of the changes won't be things that the average Joe sees from their seat.

[BoulderSooner]

Some people argue that pro-sports franchises don't deliver the economic value the report to. That is probably true. I am not sure Memphis is any better off with the NBA than they were before. I know Jacksonville, FL didn't reap all of the rewards they were promised when the Jags came to town.

However, there is the big difference. Places like Memphis and Jacksonville were looking at pro sports as the mechanism to spur development. This isn't the case in OKC. We look at a pro team as the finish line in a race started with the first MAPS vote. We don't need an NBA team to make OKC a great city - we made OKC great by investing in ourselfs and building a nice place to live. An NBA team will help OKC make the next step but OKC has a lot more going for it than the NBA. The Jags are an NFL team in an average city that is really going nowhere and the Grizzlies are an NBA in a still dirty city.

I see OKC more like Nashville. A city that picked itself up, dusted it self off, and got to work. The NBA is just one more piece of the plan - not THE plan.

great points .. i 100% agree

[Midtowner]

OKC has to invest in itself before anyone else will.

Which do you guys think will create more jobs? That 75 million dollar "economic development" bond? Or the Ford Center improvements which will result in an NBA franchise?

[CuatrodeMayo]

Ford center improvements. That 75 mil will "disappear".

[BDP]

Some more details:

NewsOK: Proposed Ford Center tax expected to last 15 months

Highlights:

• Tax would last 15 months
• 121 Million Dollars Raised
• Upgrades to concourse
• Skyboxes and roof gardens added
• New iconic entrance on the Southwest side towards new boulevard

Basically, I see this as "finishing" the job. So many out of town guests have commented to me that the arena is adequate, but looks like it wasn't finished. The good news is that the bulk of the money will be spent on things that all visitors will enjoy, while also upgrading the facilities for the organizations that are using it.

The only question I have is the wisdom of taking the main entrance off Reno. Is that boulevard a sure thing/done deal? And, while I'm thinking of it, even if it is a done deal, do we want to steer traffic away from the north side due to the nature of the pedestrian flow from the CBD and bricktown? I think it could be a good thing, but the south side will have to catch up to the north side. Maybe this is a way to do it, but I also like the idea of a plaza that incorporates the convention center as well. Now, if we got a convention hotel on the south side on the boulevard, I think it would be a coup.

[jbrown84]

Once the boulevard is complete along with the convention center and hotel across the boulevard, that entrance will make sense. It might be a good plan to hang on to the money for that part of the project for a couple years, since right now it would face a giant bridge.

[BDP]

I agree that would make sense, but what are the chances right now that it will actually happen? I'm not saying that it won't happen, but until any of that is actually set to be built, then there is some risk is putting the money in the south side. Maybe delaying that phase would be a good move, but it would also mean that the Ford Center would be under constant renovation and construction for the next few years.

Also, I'd be interested to know what people think of Cornett's contention that getting the NBA is contingent on passing these improvements.

[jbrown84]

I think they could completely hold off on the new entrance, without leaving a big hole in the side of the building or anything.


Oh, and roof gardens???

[BDP]

I think they could completely hold off on the new entrance, without leaving a big hole in the side of the building or anything.

No I just meant that we'd have all the construction from the internal renovations, followed by the outside renovations, instead of doing as much of it at once.

Oh, and roof gardens???

The article describes them like balconies where you can go up and have a drink outside while looking at the city. I think they sound pretty cool, actually, but I'm not sure if they'd be exclusive for VIP, Club, and/or suites guests or if they'd be open for general admission.

[jbrown84]

Where are they going to put those? So is this going to be a complete facelift?

[betts]

It sounds very cool. I'm all for improving the Ford, even without an NBA team, although we wouldn't necessarily need skyboxes or roof gardens. I'd love to see better bathrooms, nicer flooring and the Ice House finished out and upgraded. People I know who sit in club level tell me the sound system is not in place there, and the scoreboard could stand an upgrade. After seeing the ones at OU and Texas A&M, it's kind of embarrassing that the Ford Center's is so much worse. It sounds like most of the improvements would enhance the visitor's experience rather than being strictly designed as a money maker for the owners (which seems to be many people's objection). Personally, after the owners spent so much money for a team, will have to pay a $30 million dollar relocation fee, not to mention all the court costs, all to bring us a team to enjoy, I'm not opposed to them making some money.

[onthestrip]

If at the very least, the renovations make the inside something like American Airlines Center, then Im all for it. Our arena is way behind other arenas nearby.

[BDP]

So is this going to be a complete facelift?

It sounds like it. I think we're supposed to see some more formal plans this week.

If OKC pulls it off, it will be a great move: take half the money and build a bare bones arena, prove viability and generate revenue for 5 years, and then spend the other half later to make it competitive in perks and amenities and when it's all said and done, we still won't have spent as much as most cities have in the last 10-15 years.

[HOT ROD]

excellent points BDP and betts.

Some of the naysayers are forgetting that Bennett and Co did spend $350M of THEIR money and will be spending much more to get OKC a team. ...

And, like what was also said, almost all of these improvements/retrofit is for the visitor experience and not for profit making. ..

I can't wait to see/hear the improvement report. I hope the city does a very nice job informing that the extension will 'complete' what MAPS started, not fill the pockets of Bennett - although I do agree it doesn't hurt to support those who got you a team., ...

After all, if it wasn't for Clay Bennett - OKC would have never gotten the Hornets!!

[Midtowner]

Absolutely right.

Something for my fellow conspiracy theorists -- when was the last time one of these big name city father types put real money where their mouth is. Not Hogan, not anyone else comes to mind. Bennett took a HUGE risk here for Oklahoma City.

We need to show him and anyone else who would invest their own money into the city that the people of OKC will get behind whatever is going on.