Paris Olympics

[Pete]

One thing that doesn't get much air is that most these 'foreign' swimmers and track & field athletes are trained at U.S. universities, and/or they train here now with American coaches. Very fitting the Texas swim coach is coaching the French team.

Essentially, American public, taxpayer-supported universities (Texas, Florida, ASU, Auburn, many others) are providing scholarships, facilities and coaches that other countries then use to best us in the Olympic games. And plenty of private U.S. schools (Standford, USC) do the same.

[PhiAlpha]

^ yeah it’s a lot more obvious in sports like basketball where you see the guys playing in the NBA or college here. Hadn’t really thought about the other sports

[Pete]

Listen carefully to swimming and track & field in particular: 'Senior at USC, competed at Stanford, part of the Gator (or Longhorn or Sun Devil) Swim Club.'

Bob Bowman (Texas coach) is coaching the French swim team.

These are public, tax-payer-funded universities paying for a lot of this, which has been going on for a long time.

Even a good number of the golfers in the Olympics (Rahm, Hovland, Detry, even Matt Fitzpatrick) had full scholarships at U.S. universities. If you look at the tennis teams for any school in the U.S., the rosters are at least 75% foreign.

[BoulderSooner]

Listen carefully to swimming and track & field in particular: 'Senior at USC, competed at Stanford, part of the Gator (or Longhorn or Sun Devil) Swim Club.'

Bob Bowman (Texas coach) is coaching the French swim team.

These are public, tax-payer-funded universities paying for a lot of this, which has been going on for a long time.

Even a good number of the golfers in the Olympics (Rahm, Hovland, Detry, even Matt Fitzpatrick) had full scholarships at U.S. universities. If you look at the tennis teams for any school in the U.S., the rosters are at least 75% foreign.

in some cases like Texas and OU the athletic dept is not funded by tax payers or the university at large ..

but your larger point is correct ..

[Pete]

in some cases like Texas and OU the athletic dept is not funded by tax payers or the university at large ..

but your larger point is correct ..

The universities/states own the property and the facilities. I'm not sure how scholarships are handled.

[BoulderSooner]

The universities/states own the property and the facilities. I'm not sure how scholarships are handled.

at OU the athletic dept pays the university every dollar for the scholarships ..

and at OU the athletic dept self funds all of the facilities ... but yes they are university owned ..

[onthestrip]

One thing that doesn't get much air is that most these 'foreign' swimmers and track & field athletes are trained at U.S. universities, and/or they train here now with American coaches. Very fitting the Texas swim coach is coaching the French team.

Essentially, American public, taxpayer-supported universities (Texas, Florida, ASU, Auburn, many others) are providing scholarships, facilities and coaches that other countries then use to best us in the Olympic games. And plenty of private U.S. schools (Standford, USC) do the same.

Golfers too. Three foreign golfers participating in the olympics played at OSU.
https://www.wsj.com/sports/golf/olym...weden-1bcda61d

[Pete]

^

Rahm went to ASU, Acer to OU, even Matt Fitzpatrick went to Northwestern.

My point is, that for dramatic effect everyone wants to make this about country vs. country but the real truth is that a very large number of Olympians competing for other countries are American trained and coached and many actually live here and/or go to college here.

And that's true for many who compete in global games such as basketball, baseball, tennis, and golf.

It doesn't really work the other way, apart from a handful of soccer players that compete for foreign clubs. Apart from that, Americans only go abroad if they can't cut it in the States.

[Pete]

I know why the broadcasters and networks avoid this subject... They are trying to create drama and rivalries to drive interest and viewership.

I've watched every bit of the swimming and...

Did you know Leon Marchant has been living in the U.S. for four years, that he's a student at Arizona State, that he competed for them in NCAA's, and that his parents were also swimmers who had moved to the U.S. to live and train?

All you'd know from the hours and hours of coverage is that he has an American coach. And that's deliberate because they have hyped the crap out of the "hometown boy wows the local crowd".

It's not a big deal but the honest truth is that since the fall of the Soviet Union and the Eastern Block, the media has had to manufacture drama and rivalries when in fact half of these competitions are among residents of the United States.

[Snowman]

at OU the athletic dept pays the university every dollar for the scholarships ..

and at OU the athletic dept self funds all of the facilities ... but yes they are university owned ..

OU is in a small minority of athletic programs which are consistently self funded, if I recall correctly the number was like 20 pre-covid, but that might have even dropped given after effects of that.

[citywokchinesefood]

The US would win every medal in every category if we bothered to care about who lived and trained here. If you can't make the national team you will try to make the national team of whatever country you have the dna to possibly make it happen. We get the best because everyone can become an American if you are good enough. I can't be Japanese no matter how much I might want to even though I am a multi-millionaire. It doesn't even matter because I am a foreigner. The reason we do so well is all about being a melting pot that gives immigrants a real reason to identify with this country. US Olympic success is built on immigrants and their children that aspire to be Americans.

[BoulderSooner]

I know why the broadcasters and networks avoid this subject... They are trying to create drama and rivalries to drive interest and viewership.

I've watched every bit of the swimming and...

Did you know Leon Marchant has been living in the U.S. for four years, that he's a student at Arizona State, that he competed for them in NCAA's, and that his parents were also swimmers who had moved to the U.S. to live and train?

All you'd know from the hours and hours of coverage is that he has an American coach. And that's deliberate because they have hyped the crap out of the "hometown boy wows the local crowd".

It's not a big deal but the honest truth is that since the fall of the Soviet Union and the Eastern Block, the media has had to manufacture drama and rivalries when in fact half of these competitions are among residents of the United States.

just to bring this up again .. the Pole vault gold medalist and world record holder .. (and best ever) was born in Louisiana to an American father swede mother grew up there went to lsu to play baseball .. then decided to rep Sweden in the Olympics ..

he has dual passports ..

[Pete]

^

Yeah, he is an American competing for some reason for Sweden -- I know his mom is Swedish but his parents met at LSU, he grew up here, he went to LSU.

I'd love to see someone compile a medal list based on country of residency -- the U.S. would have 3x the medals as anyone else.

The Olympics also decided to limit swimming and gymnastics events to only two competitors per country; both sports the U.S. dominates and would sometimes sweep.

It's all in aid of trying to maintain the illusion of international competitiveness at the expense of the United States.

[BoulderSooner]

^

Yeah, he is an American competing for some reason for Sweden -- I know his mom is Swedish but his parents met at LSU, he grew up here, he went to LSU.

I'd love to see someone compile a medal list based on country of residency -- the U.S. would have 3x the medals as anyone else.

The Olympics also decided to limit swimming and gymnastics events to only two competitors per country; both sports the U.S. dominates and would sometimes sweep.

It's all in aid of trying to maintain the illusion of international competitiveness at the expense of the United States.

track is limited to 3 a country and the usa would also dominate .. ..

but like you mentioned up thread .. really it is to keep interest going post USA vs USSR (and the 92 unified team) .. era ..

[jn1780]

And I bet there are a larger percentage of Swedes that know him vs Americans. Makes sense to me why he would compete for Sweden, less competition from the other popular sports that Americans prefer.

[PaddyShack]

I can't help but think that those other states definitely understand when there athletes comes from the US and are not true locals. For the pole vaulter, I assume Team Sweden gave him more attention than Team U.S.A. which we see happen a lot with Soccer players. There have been a number of very successful players, that are in dual national positions, that the USMNT simply didn't even call for whatever reason. For an Oklahoma connection, we had Daryl Dike is has seen success over in England and plays for USMNT, however his brother Bright Dike chose to play for the Nigerian National Team.

Athletes in those positions have a great set up in that they can chose the path of least resistance, where-as those who can only compete for the US have loads more competition to make the Olympic cut. The pole vaulter I believe is wanting to pay homage to his ancestry more over than anything, so that could also be the reason for athletes to choose other nations. I would like to see the counts of medals won by any and all athletes that live/train in the US with US coaches. Heck, for any athletes that eat and drink US products I would even consider US medals! HAHA

[Pete]

Although this does not account for all the 'foreign' athletes living in the U.S., 2024 Paris numbers show that over 1,200 Olympic athletes are current or former competitors for U.S. universities and only 385 are representing the USA.

NCAA athletes represent 125 countries at the current games and 2/3rd are not competing for the U.S.

Canada alone has 131 NCAA athletes on their team; Australia 46, Germany 36, etc.

15 college coaches are coaching delegations from other nations.


Again, this does not account for the many athletes competing for foreign nations who live and train in the U.S. and who didn't go to an American university.


It's just an interesting aspect of the games that is purposely left out of broadcasts because it plays against the contrived country vs. country narrative.

[Ginkasa]

Do the athletes not come from the countries they represent? Are they US citizens or here on a student visa? Does training in the US negate where they come from? Can their home countries not take pride in them?

It just seems to me that if someone is "good enough" to participate at something at an international level they'll probably spend and have spent a lot of time internationally except in maybe a few special circumstances. If the US has the best training facilities and coaches it makes sense to me that the best talents would seek out the resources no matter where they came from (and that'll be a self sustaining loop). I don't think that means their connection to their home and their home's pride in their talent is diminished.

For example, just because SGA and Dort play for an professional basketball team based in OKC, USA doesn't mean their less Canadian or that its somehow fake for them to be play for the Canadian basketball team.

I agree that its interesting, but it seems like you're positioning that as a criticism ("contrived" in particular reads to me as negative) and I don't feel it necessarily is.

Or is that athletes aren't actually from or connected to the nations they represent? If countries are trading "players" between "teams" I'd agree it defeats the nationalistic pride element.

[Pete]

^

SGA and Dort also went to public American universities.

My central point is that so many of these athletes are made great by going to school and being trained and coached by Americans, and often those programs are funded by American taxpayers.

And many would not be competitive if not for living here for years on end, getting the benefit of our great facilities and coaching, and training with the best in their respective sports.

This does not happen in reverse and it doesn't happen in other countries. The U.S. simply does not get the credit for creating thousands of champions who are claimed by other countries.

It's a bit of a farce, especially the ubiquitous medal table that indicates some sort of semi-equity among nations when that isn't remotely reflective of the real sports world. And the fact this is never brought up by the media and IOC shows it's all a contrivance.


I absolutely love the Olympics and watch tons of it, but the country vs. country thing is largely manufactured.

[TheTravellers]

...
Or is that athletes aren't actually from or connected to the nations they represent? If countries are trading "players" between "teams" I'd agree it defeats the nationalistic pride element.

Athletes have to be a citizen of some sort of the country they're competing for.

https://olympics.com/ioc/faq/competi...my-nationality

[Pete]

Athletes have to be a citizen of some sort of the country they're competing for.

https://olympics.com/ioc/faq/competi...my-nationality

Keep in mind that each country's Olympic committee has their own standard of what constitutes a citizen.

I know in past Olympics, there have been Americans with a great-grandfather from Greece competing for that country. There are other big stretches as well.

[BoulderSooner]

Athletes have to be a citizen of some sort of the country they're competing for.

https://olympics.com/ioc/faq/competi...my-nationality

but for lots of the world that can be a grandparent born there ..

[Bellaboo]

The girl gymnast from France, who didn't make the French team, changed to Algeria due to her dad was from there.

And she won gold on the individual bars, I believe.

[fortpatches]

The girl gymnast from France, who didn't make the French team, changed to Algeria due to her dad was from there.

And she won gold on the individual bars, I believe.

Anyone can switch to represent another country (if eligible) so long as they haven't represented the prior country for three years (some exceptions apply to lessen the length if the prior country approves).

For Nemour, it wasn't like a last-minute change - it had been in the works for years - French-born Kaylia Nemour wins historic Olympic gold for Algeria; Suni Lee claims bronze | NBC Olympics

In 2021, Nemour developed osteochondritis, a joint condition in her knees that required multiple surgeries which took her out of the sport for nearly a year. Although her personal doctor cleared her to compete, the French national team doctor — who had never examined her — refused to clear her. With just one year to go until the Games, Nemour’s career came to a standstill.
With her final qualification opportunity for the Games quickly approaching, Nemour decided to switch her nationally to represent Algeria. However, the French federation did not approve the change, meaning Nemour wouldn’t be able to compete until July 2023.
That date fell after the African Championships, a crucial event for Nemour as she needed to compete in it to qualify for the world championships. Success there would then enable her to secure a spot at the Paris Olympics.
An online petition demanding the release of Nemour garnered over 6,000 signatures. In May 2023, six French gymnasts disclosed instances of abuse during their time on the national team. French Minister for Sport and the Olympic & Paralympic Games, Amelie Oudea-Castera, pledged to investigate the allegations. She also convened a meeting with the French Gymnastics Federation to address various issues within the sport, including Nemour's nationality dispute.
Subsequently, the Federation announced that Nemour could represent Algeria, clearing her to compete less than two weeks before the African Championships.
Nemour has made the absolute most of the opportunity. She first turned heads in her world championship debut in 2023 where she finished second on the uneven bars, becoming the first African gymnast to win a world medal.

Competitors cannot just change who they compete for at a whim. There is a process and a waiting period, as well as various agreements to be made between countries.

[Pete]

I wonder how all these foreign athletes arrange to stay in the U.S.?

For example, Kirani James 'from Grenada' moved to the U.S. 14 years ago, went to Alabama, and still lives in Tuscaloosa.

Pretty much the same for Josh Kerr 'from Great Britain'; went to New Mexico and still lives in Albuquerque even though he's been out of school for several years. I could name hundreds more.


These athletes tend to stay in their college town 1) to keep being coached by their college coach as they aspire to the Olympics; and 2) because they have easy access to training facilities, not just pools and tracks but weights and likely all the related things like strength coaches, nutritionists, medical attention, physical therapy, etc. Who is paying for all this? All of them list 'athlete' as their profession; there is prize money involved for various international competitions but I doubt many of these guys make much, especially right out of college.

All full-time university students from other countries are here on F-1 visas and as soon as their status changes to graduate or part-time, they have 60 days to arrange for travel back home.

Pro athletes (such as the NBA or NHL and are employed in the U.S.) are different and are granted H-2B visas.