$465 million in aid to Oklahoma includes lightrail!!!

[Spartan]

Lots of traffic from Tinker to Bricktown and vice versa?

No.

[PennyQuilts]

Fifty states are going to be gobbling up whatever pet project they can get and it won't matter if it is a true stimulus. It will simply be free money and Christmas time. There is not a politician out there who is going to turn down free stuff for his/her state. Have I mentioned that we are screwed?

[Caboose]

Yeah... those jobs created to build it and maintain it are given to people. People spend money. Simple.

Right.. and the job of napping and watching TV for 80k a year could be given to me. In turn I would spend money. Simple. So lets take money out of your pocket to fund my salary, what do you say?

Its not the role of the government to "give" people jobs. If the project is useful, efficient, and serves the greater public then yes, let us spend tax dollars on it. If it happens to provide maintence jobs, that is just a bonus. But taking tax money to fund a useless failure of a project is not "creating jobs" or "stimulating the economy". It is merely merely redistributing wealth from the pockets of the tax payers to the salaries of those employed by the project.

[USG '60]

Coburn, maybe?

[Lord Helmet]

That's one of the reason our economy is in the shape it's in, Goverment spending on useless things. Why build something that you know is going to loose money, then spend the next 50 years wasting more money to keep it operating. Very Simple

I dunno if I'd call a light rail system in the okc area "useless"

[Chicken In The Rough]

Rail lines certainly do stimulate the economy. Check the stats on nearly city with relatively new and successful rail lines --Dallas, Atlanta, Portland, etc. The lines have stimulated an unbelievable amount of investment in commercial and residential develpment around their stations. The key, however, is the rail lines must be moderately useful in the first place.

[hipsterdoofus]

Man, I'd like to see some figures on how many folks are commuting from downtown to Tinker. I just don't think that's where our priority ought to be if we're going to build this thing.

Exactly - people work at tinker, people work downtown - I don't think there would be much in the way of traffic on this line at all. Sounds like a nice waste of money when we can't even get I-40 done in a reasonable amount of time (would ODOT be in charge of this too?)

[dismayed]

Seems like the 25k people who work at Tinker might enjoy a lunch break in Bricktown if it were more convenient....

[oneforone]

Well look at it this way.. with light rail all the panhandlers and street people could efficiently be dispersed around the city when the world series of checkers tournament and the man who met Andy Griffith comes to town.

[LakeEffect]

Exactly - people work at tinker, people work downtown - I don't think there would be much in the way of traffic on this line at all. Sounds like a nice waste of money when we can't even get I-40 done in a reasonable amount of time (would ODOT be in charge of this too?)

ODOT wouldn't be in charge - a local authority of some sort would be formed. I've been told that many of the people moving into the new developments around Downtown/Bricktown are engineers and high-paid personnel from Tinker, so yes, there would be commuter traffic all the way. The line would also pick up many of the people who commute in regularly, maybe from park & ride lots. The lines and waits to get into Tinker during shift are horrendous, or so I'm told. Taking light rail in would help some people avoid that, and also reduce some of the congestion.

[PennyQuilts]

No way will Tinker people go to Bricktown for their lunch, regularly. They tend to get an hour for lunch. That is just dreaming.

[Nermel]

I'd much rather see FICA taxes suspended for a few months to stimulate the ecoonomy rather than all of these pet projects that congress is pushing.

[scootinger]

As everyone else has said, this doesn't sound very useful...unless Midwest City has something remarkable in the works (which they don't to my knowledge) aside from a cookie-cutter big-box shopping center. I wonder how much Midwest City spent on kickbacks for the people working on this?

What happened to the light rail that was supposed to go between Moore (I think?) and Edmond? That seems like a much better route.

[venture]

If they do anything, Norman-OKC should be priority. Then extend it to Edmond. I say Norman has priority due to the strain on traffic I-35 still presents and the widening won't be done for a few years. Whereas Edmond and northern burbs have multiple highway access to moving traffic, unlike the 3rd largest city in the state which has 1 that is consistently gridlocked during rush hour.

[mcgrawsdad]

I had the same thought this morning. I am thrilled to possibly get some funding for a rapid transit/rail system in OKC. But, BT-Tinker seems like a line that could later. We should start with the core lines, the add the feeder lines as the budget and demand allows.

We have seen several light rail proposals in the past that included Fair Grounds to Airport lines. I always thought these seemed wasteful and detrimental to the overall system. If we spend $400 million on this line that very few will ride, the rest of the system will be put in jeopardy. Critics will argue that we built a state-of-the-art rail line and no one rode it. The real problem is that this state-of-the-art rail line connects two points that draw few commuters.

I see the same potential problem with the BT-Tinker line. Maybe I'm dead wrong, but I don't see this line being used that much this early in the game. I think Downtown-Penn Square, Downtown-Capitol/Med Center, or a 23rst St. line would be much more widely used. These lines could then be expanded and new feeder lines attached.

I would love to start with a major system connecting Tinker, Norman, and Edmond with major points in OKC. But I think we need to plan more carefully. Start with smaller lines that will maximize ridership, then grow the system to include these other points.

30000 workers and armed services personnel in one convenient location. Many of the bricktown and downtown entertainment venues are frequented by personnel stationed at tinker. Just imagine if they could go enjoy themselves and not have to worry about a designated driver, taxi, etc. Oklahoma City is unique because of the massive amount of sprawl and a large scale light rail system simply will not work in OKC. It would have limited success if it concentrates on the largest employment and commercial centers.

[dismayed]

No way will Tinker people go to Bricktown for their lunch, regularly. They tend to get an hour for lunch. That is just dreaming.

I'm just trying to find the positive in a kind of odd situation. The reality is that there is going to be some percentage of people who might want to go to Bricktown maybe once a week or every few weeks. If it is as small as say 5% of that 25k workforce per week, and the average tab is $15 after tax and tip, that would equal just under $1 million new dollars in Bricktown per year. That's something positive to think about, isn't it?

[PennyQuilts]

I'm just trying to find the positive in a kind of odd situation. The reality is that there is going to be some percentage of people who might want to go to Bricktown maybe once a week or every few weeks. If it is as small as say 5% of that 25k workforce per week, and the average tab is $15 after tax and tip, that would equal just under $1 million new dollars in Bricktown per year. That's something positive to think about, isn't it?

They won't have TIME to go.

And this is a stimulus package congress is attempting to pass in a crisis. Turning it into a pork grab bag - especially when it is the only shot we have because there will be no money left - is a betrayal of the taxpayers. Once the money is gone, what are we going to do with a natural disaster or a widescale terrorist attack?

[kevinpate]

> Once the money is gone, what are we going to do with a natural disaster or
> a widescale terrorist attack?

Same thing we always do, irrespective of whose fav party machine is at the top of the heap ... print more. Not saying it's wise, but it's certainly not unprecedented.

[BG918]

If they do anything, Norman-OKC should be priority. Then extend it to Edmond. I say Norman has priority due to the strain on traffic I-35 still presents and the widening won't be done for a few years. Whereas Edmond and northern burbs have multiple highway access to moving traffic, unlike the 3rd largest city in the state which has 1 that is consistently gridlocked during rush hour.

I agree. Norman-OKC seems the most logical first commuter line to me.

[metro]

The rail line location isn't optional. As others stated this is a pork grab bag of ready to go projects, the Tinker/Downtown line was drawn up years ago and is "shovel-ready." Unfortunately to my knowledge their aren't any finalized drawn up plans from Norman-Edmond rail line that is shovel-ready. It basically comes down to if the government is handing out money (regardless if projects make sense), are we going to take the money for something or not take any at all. The route isn't up for discussion/change at this point in time. Oh and I agree with the poster that plenty of people from the Tinker area would use it to commute to downtown and vice versa. I know of several members of this board who live downtown and work at Tinker. Also, couldn't you imagine some of the troops taking it downtown on the weekends for a night out in Bricktown?

[CuatrodeMayo]

It would connect downtown residents to the MWC "town center" as well.

[angel27]

If maybe this is not the most desired route, Bricktown to Tinker, but it is shovel-ready, and I think many saw this route in place years down the line, but we can get it now, then we should do so. Many of us know we need a mass-transit artery in place to have the kind of city we know we can be and is most needed by our residents now and into the future. I'm just wondering at what point in BT it connects..?

One struggling mother I know lives on SW 63rd and Western. She is going to school at Heritage at Crossroads. To get there, she must go all the way downtown to the terminal and then catch another bus to Heritage. it takes her 1 1/2 hours to go one way. She is willing and glad for the opportunity even tho she must leave at 6 each weekday morning.

The way things are now, we make it really hard for those struggling to get their act together. You say you can't see yourself on the bus for 1 1/2 hrs trying to get to work, fine. but we continue to hurt ouselves by not helping the least among us who have no other options. I think we need to open our eyes and see that by making life better and easier for everyone, we are helping ourselves. like those students we want to develop and keep here. And all those struggling artists likewise. We've come a long way on the aesthetics of our city. And on our schools. Transportation is next. If the only concrete plans we've made are Tinker to Bricktown then so be it. At least that part of it will be done.

[venture]

Yeah definitely a massive pork grab bag. Trying to avoid letting this spiral into thread that should be in the political forum...I strongly believe that any MSA with unemployment less than 5% unemployment should be exempt from there. Want to stimulate the economy, get the areas with 8, 10, or higher unemployment rates back to work. Not the cities where things just doing well.

[soonerguru]

Not the cities where things just doing well.

So should OKC just say, "Thanks, but no thanks?" We have highway and bridge problems in this state that haven't been addressed for forty years. I say we deserve a share, not a big share, but a share nonetheless.

Keep in mind that the bill the House passed will look very different after the Senate passes its bill. I'm hopeful that some of the pork will be trimmed, but also keep in mind there are no "earmarks" in this bill, a massive change from every other bill Congress passed during the last decade.

[venture]

I don't think we should get more than a city that is of equal size but worse off. Yes we have bridge and highway problems in this state. I'm sure we could get into a whole discussion on funding for that at the state and federal level and where funds are perhaps spent on pork projects rather than what we need.

Needless to say, if we are going to get the money no matter what...light rail from Midwest City to Bricktown is not anything that will help in a widespread way. The money can be spent in a much better way.