NHL/Coyotes

[bison34]

Id love an NHL team but they’d have to compete with the Thunder during the same time of year and I don’t think the city could support both, although I’d love to be wrong.

Hell, the Thunder were 23rd in attendance this season while having the best team in like 8 years. Don’t think the market is exactly screaming that it could support more teams.

They averaged 800 less than full capacity per game. The arena holds such a small amount, that isn't a fair way to compare. But you do you.

[Bill Robertson]

I love hockey. Love! I only halfway follow basketball because of our Thunder. As much as I would be ecstatic if we got an NHL team I don't see it happening in my lifetime. And I plan on having at least 20 years or so. I don't think we're going to be in the running for any relocation. And I don't think expansion is a real possibility for some time if ever. Hockey seems to be dropping in popularity instead of gaining. Much like baseball. My other favorite sport.

[Laramie]

Don't know about NHL rules; however I would love to have Tulsa (BOK Center) and Oklahoma City (New Paycom Center) share an NHL Oklahoma team with half of the games played in each city. Don't know if it would work having two cities share a franchise.

Just a thought that probably would never gain traction.

[jedicurt]

We had a good chl/echl team and it failed. We had a great Ahl team, probably the second best league in the world, and it failed.
Hockey is logically a niche in OK. It doesn’t work.
Let’s move along.
I would prefer the new arena to be basketball centric like the Clippers new one, with closer and stepper baselines than multi activities with terrible evaded stands.

hockey failed in OKC because of the ownership. it's the same reason their Soccer team failed too... Prodigal and the Funks are the reason those endeavors failed... i was on the Barons advisory board for 3 years. i saw the inside workings, and it failed because they have no clue how to run a sports team. they literally kept getting surprised by things that we told them were coming months, and even once, a year in advance....

[jedicurt]

Don't know about NHL rules; however I would love to have Tulsa (BOK Center) and Oklahoma City (New Paycom Center) share an NHL Oklahoma team with half of the games played in each city. Don't know if it would work having two cities share a franchise.

Just a thought that probably would never gain traction.

there is no way the Owners would approve that. it's a cool idea, but they just wouldn't go for it

[Richard at Remax]

hockey failed in OKC because of the ownership. it's the same reason their Soccer team failed too... Prodigal and the Funks are the reason those endeavors failed... i was on the Barons advisory board for 3 years. i saw the inside workings, and it failed because they have no clue how to run a sports team. they literally kept getting surprised by things that we told them were coming months, and even once, a year in advance....

10000000%

[Laramie]

Salt Lake City has a healthy economy with a good base of income; however their growth rate (GR) doesn't compare to OKC or Tulsa's:

Metropolitan Statistical Area Population 2023-2020
42. Oklahoma City, OK MSA (2023) 1,477,926 (2020) 1,425,695 GR +3.66%
46. Salt Lake City-Murray UT (2023) 1,267,864 (2020) 1,257,936 GR +0.79%
54. Tulsa, OK MSA (2023) 1,044,757 (2020) 1,015,331 GR +2.90%

Just don't see how the NBA-NHL teams can co-exist using the same arena in Utah in one of the NBA's small market cities where the NBA & NHL seasons are aligned.

The early ticket sales for the Coyotes look promising--what will the renewal rate be after the Coyotes first season.

When you compare the TV markets for Salt Lake City (which uses the whole state of Utah as one market) vs the Oklahoma City-Tulsa combined markets:

2022-2023 Nielsen DMA Ranking:
29. Salt Lake City -- 1,148,120 - 0.928%
OKC-TUL combined - 1,287.050 (This is the market Bally Sports uses for Thunder games.)
^ ^ ^
46 Oklahoma City -- 743,340 - 0.601%
62 Tulsa -- 543,710 -- 0.439%

[Jersey Boss]

Cavalry 8 or 9 years ago? You mean 28-29 years ago? The Thunder have been here for 16-17 years and we had the hornets 2 of the three years before that.

So would the attendance figures the Calvary posted been a way to gauge the success of an NBA franchise in OKC?

[Jersey Boss]

hockey failed in OKC because of the ownership. it's the same reason their Soccer team failed too... Prodigal and the Funks are the reason those endeavors failed... i was on the Barons advisory board for 3 years. i saw the inside workings, and it failed because they have no clue how to run a sports team. they literally kept getting surprised by things that we told them were coming months, and even once, a year in advance....

This 100%

[Dob Hooligan]

The Funk's were fine owners of the team. The NHL and AHL decided they want their minor league affiliates closer to the east or west coasts. The central US is no longer an area they want to do business in. Or rather, it is an area where hockey is declining in popularity.

[Swake]

Salt Lake City has a healthy economy with a good base of income; however their growth rate (GR) doesn't compare to OKC or Tulsa's:

Metropolitan Statistical Area Population 2023-2020
42. Oklahoma City, OK MSA (2023) 1,477,926 (2020) 1,425,695 GR +3.66%
46. Salt Lake City-Murray UT (2023) 1,267,864 (2020) 1,257,936 GR +0.79%
54. Tulsa, OK MSA (2023) 1,044,757 (2020) 1,015,331 GR +2.90%

Just don't see how the NBA-NHL teams can co-exist using the same arena in Utah in one of the NBA's small market cities where the NBA & NHL seasons are aligned.

The early ticket sales for the Coyotes look promising--what will the renewal rate be after the Coyotes first season.

When you compare the TV markets for Salt Lake City (which uses the whole state of Utah as one market) vs the Oklahoma City-Tulsa combined markets:

2022-2023 Nielsen DMA Ranking:
29. Salt Lake City -- 1,148,120 - 0.928%
OKC-TUL combined - 1,287.050 (This is the market Bally Sports uses for Thunder games.)
^ ^ ^
46 Oklahoma City -- 743,340 - 0.601%
62 Tulsa -- 543,710 -- 0.439%

Salt Lake City CSA - 2,805,734
Oklahoma City CSA - 1,551,717
Tulsa CSA - 1,165,140

[The]

The Funk's were fine owners of the team. The NHL and AHL decided they want their minor league affiliates closer to the east or west coasts. The central US is no longer an area they want to do business in. Or rather, it is an area where hockey is declining in popularity.

Impossible to take your sports takes seriously based on your first sentence here and your musings in the Thunder thread.

[jedicurt]

The Funk's were fine owners of the team. .

Tell me you don't understand Oklahoma City sports history in one sentence.

[PhiAlpha]

So would the attendance figures the Calvary posted been a way to gauge the success of an NBA franchise in OKC?

well they weren’t here 8-9 years ago and the Thunder already were so probably not

LOL, I agree with your point (hence why the Hornets ended up being our real test run) but I just don't think we're ready to support two professional leagues with overlapping schedules. I don't think SLC is either but they do probably have more hockey fans there and someone was willing to put their money where their mouth was so I guess that question will be answered. I think a city like Tulsa with over 1 million in the metro, no professional franchise and is growing or a big northern city with no hockey team would probably be better options. I'd love to have a team, just don't think we're ready for that yet and don't want to do anything to take away from our one successful franchise that has proven that it can struggle a bit when it's not winning.

[gopokes88]

You can't draw a meaningful comparison between a major airline hub and a non-hub. I'm sure the number of passengers with SLC as a primary destination is still much larger than those deplaning at OKC, but I'm also sure that number is probably well below 10 million. Perhaps more like 5 or 6. The rest of those folks never set foot outside of the airport, and could just as easily be contributing to numbers in Denver or DFW or Atlanta. Deplaning is the number you're looking for.

It's also the capital of a major religion.

[gopokes88]

We'll get an MLB team before we get a hockey team.

[Urbanized]

It's also the capital of a major religion.

Nowhere did I say that SLC doesn't see more visitors (and deplanements) than OKC. It almost certainly does. What I was saying was that a SLC 26.9 million passenger count vs 4.4 million at Will Rogers is a wild and useless apples-and-oranges comparison due to its hub status. That's it. My point stands.

[Swake]

We'll get an MLB team before we get a hockey team.

No way. MLB is by far the hardest sport for a city to support.

[Dob Hooligan]

Tell me you don't understand Oklahoma City sports history in one sentence.

Here's what I understand about OKC sports history...

Nobody with money has come in and said "OKC is a great hockey town and we will invest and succeed at the AA, AAA or NHL level because the Funk's were bad operators".

Nobody with money has said "We will take over the pro soccer in OKC and succeed because the Funk's are bad operators".

The NHL and AHL flat out said they were leaving this part of the country, did it the next year, and have no plans to return.

Over the last 18 months in Phoenix the NBA team sold for $4 billion. The NHL team sold for $1.2 billion if they promise to leave town, and the seller can get back in for $1 billion if they promise to come back in 5 years.

[jedicurt]

Nobody with money has come in and said "OKC is a great hockey town and we will invest and succeed at the AA, AAA or NHL level because the Funk's were bad operators".

The Stars ownership group attempted to bring their ECHL (AA) team to OKC in 2017. they were told they couldn't share an arena with the thunder, and they could not get a 10 year commitment from the city for either cox or Norick arena to confirm that they would have a long term place to play. as a result, the stars extended their affiliation with Idaho Steelheads before the start of the 2017-18 season. The stars continue to look for a long term viable location that they can have their "AA" Affiliate where they own it. it's why they keep only signing 2 year extensions with Idaho since that 2017 extension.

so i will stand by my statement on you not knowing oklahoma city sports history.

The NHL and AHL flat out said they were leaving this part of the country, did it the next year, and have no plans to return.

interesting.. wasn't aware that you heard the communications between Prodigal and Edmonton during the lead up to the last season. and based upon your statement, it's clear that you didn't hear those communications. I can tell you straight up that the issue edmonton had was with the Funks and how things were managed. it was only then that they chose to also move their team west by promoting Bakersfield from being AA to the AHL. Edmonton ownership mentioned several times that they loved the OKC market, but couldn't keep dealing with an ownership here that constantly ignored suggestions and never followed through with commitments. This is not just my opinion on the matter. I have second hand conversations with both people in Prodigal and those that I got to know in Edmonton, whom I still keep in touch with.

I never got it confirmed, but have good reason to believe that most of the 2014-15 season, Edmonton was attempting to find a different owner/operator for their AHL team here in OKC. There was a lot of talk about how much the players actually loved it here during the 2012 NHL lockout. Edmonton just wasn't ever able to find that group they felt could manage it. And they weren't in the same boat as organizations like the Dallas Stars, as Oilers Entertainment Group is a Canadian established business, to just take it over and run it all themselves.

[Laramie]

. . ^ . . ^ . . ^

You nailed it, jedicurt

[Dob Hooligan]

The Stars ownership group attempted to bring their ECHL (AA) team to OKC in 2017. they were told they couldn't share an arena with the thunder, and they could not get a 10 year commitment from the city for either cox or Norick arena to confirm that they would have a long term place to play. as a result, the stars extended their affiliation with Idaho Steelheads before the start of the 2017-18 season. The stars continue to look for a long term viable location that they can have their "AA" Affiliate where they own it. it's why they keep only signing 2 year extensions with Idaho since that 2017 extension.

so i will stand by my statement on you not knowing oklahoma city sports history.



interesting.. wasn't aware that you heard the communications between Prodigal and Edmonton during the lead up to the last season. and based upon your statement, it's clear that you didn't hear those communications. I can tell you straight up that the issue edmonton had was with the Funks and how things were managed. it was only then that they chose to also move their team west by promoting Bakersfield from being AA to the AHL. Edmonton ownership mentioned several times that they loved the OKC market, but couldn't keep dealing with an ownership here that constantly ignored suggestions and never followed through with commitments. This is not just my opinion on the matter. I have second hand conversations with both people in Prodigal and those that I got to know in Edmonton, whom I still keep in touch with.

I never got it confirmed, but have good reason to believe that most of the 2014-15 season, Edmonton was attempting to find a different owner/operator for their AHL team here in OKC. There was a lot of talk about how much the players actually loved it here during the 2012 NHL lockout. Edmonton just wasn't ever able to find that group they felt could manage it. And they weren't in the same boat as organizations like the Dallas Stars, as Oilers Entertainment Group is a Canadian established business, to just take it over and run it all themselves.

I have zero inside knowledge and don't want to ever give the impression that I did, or do. I just read a lot. I was pretty actively reading about the NHL and AHL in the early teens, as I was following the Las Vegas Golden Knights establishment and also following the Sonics Rising site from Seattle, as it was beginning to transition from the NBA to an NHL focus and establishment of the Kraken. I think Sonics Rising was aligned with Bar Stool (or some other message board group) and their message boards, so that was where I started following links to other west coast focused hockey message boards. When I was refreshing my memory this weekend, I checked the AHL Wikipedia and their history section has the "Relocations and western shift" section that reinforced what I recall happened then.

I think most of what I have read about hockey in OKC since the Barons left is more of the "don't burn any bridges" variety. And, I fear this is a really challenging time for all minor league sports.

[warreng88]

The main thing missing here that has less to do with a place to play is more about a person to pay for it. Coyotes sold of $1.2 Billion. So, you need to have owners come in to buy a team and be prepared to spend over a billion dollars to buy a team before you can look at housing them.

Now, when it comes to AHL or lower level teams, that's a different story, which is why we can talk about a soccer team as there are a lot of levels. But an NHL team?

[gopokes88]

Nowhere did I say that SLC doesn't see more visitors (and deplanements) than OKC. It almost certainly does. What I was saying was that a SLC 26.9 million passenger count vs 4.4 million at Will Rogers is a wild and useless apples-and-oranges comparison due to its hub status. That's it. My point stands.

We agree. I was pointed out they get the added benefit of being the capital of a global religion, which 100% boosts their air traffic, winter skiing does as well. OKC and SLC are just entirely different markets

[Laramie]

Anytime a city can host an NBA All Star Weekend Classic--it shows you have the luxury hotel infrastructure support.

Let's see if SLC can meet the challenge of two big league city franchises co-existing in the same building.