Jenks vs Union again

[ljbab728]

OK well first off, the statement about the tragic incidents is false. We had a shooting at Ft. Gibson, and they are what 3A. Most of the places you hear about shootings are upper middle class suburban posh areas. The stuff that happens everday at a smaller inner city school never gets broadcast, so that's just a bad arguement.

Magnet schools are just a collection of specialty classes that offer opportunities in one school because the smaller schools spread out across the district don't have enough students in one place to offer the courses. So you just made my arguement for me with the larger school....larger population = more students = more of the "magnet" courses.

And as for athletes, if that's the only drawback, I'll take it. Seems to me that when the largest school in the state still fails to make it past round 1 or maybe 2 in football a few times in 20 years, tells me talent base is as much a coach as students. BA/MWC/Mustang all fought it out for the wrestling and Jazz Band state titles for 20 years....and MWC was the smallest. And like I said before, that's why they have other levels of play at those schools. Not every kid is going to get a scholarship to play sports in college....in fact MOST won't. And MOST people that play in college DON'T go pro. So i'd rather focus on the academic opportunities and prepare them for the real world rather than the "possible, but not probable" one.

You didn't understand my point about the tragic incidents. I didn't mean it was only because it was a large school, I said it was from a disconnected feeling that students might get. I know that is possible in smaller schools but it's more likely in mega high schools. And I didn't make your argument at all. I think having magnet schools for specialties is a far superior idea to having 10,000 students at one high school. That idea works for a college with 20,000 students but those students are much more mature and hopefully can adjust to the size easily (and I know some don't so don't tell me about Virginia Tech). As far as scholarships, I didn't mean all of the students would get athletic scholarships. Being on an athletic team is a bonus in a high school resume when a college is evaluating students for other kinds of scholarships or even admissions. And you evidently agree with me about athletes not going pro. That's exactly what I said.

Again, if bigger is better, why don't we just have one consolidated high school in all of Tulsa County and one in Oklahoma County?

[bombermwc]

Scale is a big difference. We're talking 3-4 thousand in a school, not 10. BA is just under 5, which is larger than places like SNU, but they have it divided up on the same physical campus. You have a intermediate high and a senior high. That way the lower and upper class groups don't have to interact with each other except in extra curricular activities. So they address your very questions. That's done at each of the schools in Tulsa...although some of them go further and created 9th grade centers. Those are totally different schools from the main senior high campus.

You can't just look at the numbers on the OSSAA site and assume that the number is the count of all that attend one school...it's not. All the students 9-12 that WILL attend a particular high school are counted in that schools' ASDM. For example, before Mid-Del went to 9-12 instead of 10-12, the 9th graders were still counted into the ASDM. That's why after they moved into the high schools, the ASDM numbers didn't change any. They do that so the OSSAA has a more accurate evaluation of populations rather than saying, "this school has 10-12 and this on is 11-12", etc.

So if you're worried about students becoming dissillusioned, don't be. It doesn't happen any more often than it does at a small school....which it does. And I would argue that in a smaller school, it's worse. You go to school with the same exact kids from k-12 and it never changes. The groups form early and if you're left out, you're left out for a decade. In larger schools, there are more kids, so more opportunities to make friends with kids you didn't know the year before.

[Swake2]

Scale is a big difference. We're talking 3-4 thousand in a school, not 10. BA is just under 5, which is larger than places like SNU, but they have it divided up on the same physical campus. You have a intermediate high and a senior high. That way the lower and upper class groups don't have to interact with each other except in extra curricular activities. So they address your very questions. That's done at each of the schools in Tulsa...although some of them go further and created 9th grade centers. Those are totally different schools from the main senior high campus.

You can't just look at the numbers on the OSSAA site and assume that the number is the count of all that attend one school...it's not. All the students 9-12 that WILL attend a particular high school are counted in that schools' ASDM. For example, before Mid-Del went to 9-12 instead of 10-12, the 9th graders were still counted into the ASDM. That's why after they moved into the high schools, the ASDM numbers didn't change any. They do that so the OSSAA has a more accurate evaluation of populations rather than saying, "this school has 10-12 and this on is 11-12", etc.

So if you're worried about students becoming dissillusioned, don't be. It doesn't happen any more often than it does at a small school....which it does. And I would argue that in a smaller school, it's worse. You go to school with the same exact kids from k-12 and it never changes. The groups form early and if you're left out, you're left out for a decade. In larger schools, there are more kids, so more opportunities to make friends with kids you didn't know the year before.

Actually Broken Arrow has two intermediate high schools that are miles from the senior high schools. North Intermediate High School and South Intermediate High School are schools for 9th and 10th grades. So in reality Broken Arrow has three high schools now and was going to add a fourth, a second senior high school, before the economy went south. Union does this too, the Intermediate High School is about a mile and a half from the senior high school. Jenks does this to a degree, there is the Freshman Academy for 9th grade only, but it is actually on the high school campus and there’s lot of blending.

[bombermwc]

Take Mid-Del Schools to that example....when they added the 9th grade wings onto each high school, they call it the "Freshmen Academy". They have a different lunch/bell schedule from the rest of the school. But the kids still go to band,choir,drama, etc. So at least there, they do mix. Somewhere like Mustang, 9th graders are across the parking lot from the rest of the high school.

Each district does it differently. I think Edmond added on to their current campuses as well. Yukon went with a whole new high school campus. The Normans kept them integrated...so did PC's. To each his own.

Remember, Westmoore had roughly 2500 kids there before the split. They were the 3rd largest school in the state and the largest on the west side. Even when the split happened, they only dropped a couple spots in ASDM and are already gaining some ground back. So either Moore is going to end up building a 4th high school in another 15 years, or they'll end up with pushing 3K at each building again. Heck MWC used to have 2K in only 10-12 until the mid 90's. It's down to about 1500 now.

[Swake2]

Take Mid-Del Schools to that example....when they added the 9th grade wings onto each high school, they call it the "Freshmen Academy". They have a different lunch/bell schedule from the rest of the school. But the kids still go to band,choir,drama, etc. So at least there, they do mix. Somewhere like Mustang, 9th graders are across the parking lot from the rest of the high school.

Each district does it differently. I think Edmond added on to their current campuses as well. Yukon went with a whole new high school campus. The Normans kept them integrated...so did PC's. To each his own.

Remember, Westmoore had roughly 2500 kids there before the split. They were the 3rd largest school in the state and the largest on the west side. Even when the split happened, they only dropped a couple spots in ASDM and are already gaining some ground back. So either Moore is going to end up building a 4th high school in another 15 years, or they'll end up with pushing 3K at each building again. Heck MWC used to have 2K in only 10-12 until the mid 90's. It's down to about 1500 now.

Jenks has about 3k at the high school campus now and is probably the largest single campus with no plans to split at all.

[ljbab728]

So if you're worried about students becoming dissillusioned, don't be. It doesn't happen any more often than it does at a small school....which it does. And I would argue that in a smaller school, it's worse. You go to school with the same exact kids from k-12 and it never changes. The groups form early and if you're left out, you're left out for a decade. In larger schools, there are more kids, so more opportunities to make friends with kids you didn't know the year before.

I didn't say disillusioned, I said disconnected. Those are not the same and I still contend that it's more likely to happen at larger schools where some students can get lost in the crowd. And I disagree that's it's easier to make friends in larger schools. I think it is infinitely more difficult.

[bombermwc]

More difficult? wow, so being a rather shy person, i found it to be totally opposite of that. I went to a 6A school and was glad I didn't go anywhere smaller. I made so many more friends once the two middle schools joined at the high school.

But it's really a "to each his own" thing. There are people that prefer the small school atmosphere because they feel like it's more of a family or fell as you do. I'm not trying to say one is right and one is wrong or anything. I just feel that consolidation has allowed some districts to excel while the refusal to has left others behind.

The real crapper is if we did things like that in the OKC area, once the single school town schools move up to 6A, they would be at an even larger disadvantage. Right now at least 6A is pretty evenly spread from top to bottom.....the ASDM's don't have too many large jumps...mainly because of OKC schools buffering between the 5A and very large 6A. Think about is Shawnee jumped into 6A again (yes they are moving down again after next year becuase of the 2 year rotation), they would barely be 1200 or so and have to compete against 5000...shudder.

[Easy180]

Jenks and Union playing in the semifinals yet again...OU needs to go after their recruiters

[OKCisOK4me]

But at least only one of them can go to the finals.

[dmoor82]

Imagine if CA and MWC were one school!DOMINATION!

[ljbab728]

Imagine if CA and MWC were one school!DOMINATION!

Same thing with districts like Edmond, Moore, Norman, PC, or Lawton.

[dmoor82]

With the domination of CA in 5A and MidWest city's tradition,there would be NO rival!

[ljbab728]

With the domination of CA in 5A and MidWest city's tradition,there would be NO rival!

CA has done very well and MWC had a good team this year. It's been a while since MWC has been a consistent power though. Any of the other districts I mentioned could do just as well with a consolidated high school like the Tulsa area schools.

[dankrutka]

Broken Arrow vs. Union for the state title. BA is the first team in a while that could legitimately end the Jenks-Union stranglehold on 6A titles.

[bombermwc]

And yet again this year, most of the state won't care because it's an all Tulsa title game...zzzzzzz. But at least Jenks and Union had to play each other for a change...it was about freaking time the bracket lined up that way.

But remember, facilities do not make the team. Yukon has it's brand new school and stadium, but what did it get them? MWC has it's rust-bucket stadium ready to fall over, but they've been at the top of the game the last several years. We love to play the numbers/money game in the east/west battles, but truth of the matter is, it just doesn't really matter. If it did, MWC wouldn't have as many titles under its belt in the number of sports it does...and BA should win everything every year....but it just doesn't pan out that way.

[Snowman]

...But remember, facilities do not make the team. Yukon has it's brand new school and stadium, but what did it get them? MWC has it's rust-bucket stadium ready to fall over, but they've been at the top of the game the last several years. We love to play the numbers/money game in the east/west battles, but truth of the matter is, it just doesn't really matter. If it did, MWC wouldn't have as many titles under its belt in the number of sports it does...and BA should win everything every year....but it just doesn't pan out that way.

Your example is a little flat, Yukon was not building a new school and stadium to improve the football team. While they have had a team for a long time, it has not been a major focus of the school. They were building a new school so replaced decades old facilities with new ones on it's new campus. Yea at the high school level it is not about facilities; because it is not like college where their is really recruiting to come to a school, you try out for the one you go to. Having motivated students (with talent) trying out and a system of development are what high schools need, if you have those and a tradition of excellence then nice facilities may be present as well. Their may be exceptions with parents choosing a school for football believing their child could go on to another level but that not going to be the majority of cases around here.

[Bunty]

But remember, facilities do not make the team. Yukon has it's brand new school and stadium, but what did it get them?

Give Yukon time. Stillwater did terrible during the first year in its new stadium, but this year improved remarkably.

[Native Okie]

Most all that is being said concerning school splits and size is accurate, however maybe there is another aspect being overlooked. I grew up in OKC from birth thru college and then lived in Broken Arrow. If you live in Tulsa you live in South Tulsa, or south east Tulsa. That is where the shopping the restaurants and anywhere you want to be is. OKC is spread out, you can be in NW OKC and rarely venture south. BA Union & Jenks are the concentrated population and economic base.

[dankrutka]

If you didn't catch it Union came from behind in the 4th quarter to win by 1. I really had hoped BA could pull it off and they let it slip right between their fingers...

[dmoor82]

Union beat Jenks by one in the last round then wins the title by one,talk about heart pounding!

[dankrutka]

Well, I'll see everyone back here in one year for the Jenks-Union title game...