I-35 Widening Between OKC Metro and TX State Line

[Plutonic Panda]

This is based on future traffic projections and is an attempt at ODOT staying ahead of the curve before it needed.

[Rover]

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...r/70877216007/

Interesting that apparently there's a push that wants to go 6 lanes from OKC to Mexico.

My problem here is that OK has just spent the last 25 years re-doing the 4 lanes. We've made such great progress and we've all had to deal with the pain that created. Are we going to have to rip that out now? It's fairly easy to add another lane to all this without breaking the bank, but bridges.....that's where it gets expensive. Having not completed the re-paving work yet, but being so far into it, I'm having a hard time supporting throwing this much money at it at the expense of other more needed projects (like metro interchanges).

Am i alone here?

I am sure there are quite a lot of traffic studies with future projections and economic impact studies. I don't think this kind of project would go forward without it.

For future economic growth, the better the infrastructure connecting the DFW and OKC metro areas the more we will benefit. Highways, high speed train, freight trains, etc. Connection equals enhanced markets and possibilities.

[DowntownMan]

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...r/70877216007/

Interesting that apparently there's a push that wants to go 6 lanes from OKC to Mexico.

My problem here is that OK has just spent the last 25 years re-doing the 4 lanes. We've made such great progress and we've all had to deal with the pain that created. Are we going to have to rip that out now? It's fairly easy to add another lane to all this without breaking the bank, but bridges.....that's where it gets expensive. Having not completed the re-paving work yet, but being so far into it, I'm having a hard time supporting throwing this much money at it at the expense of other more needed projects (like metro interchanges).

Am i alone here?

It would probably be easier to add lanes to the new bridges than the mess we’ve all dealt with with the replacement of the old bridges. They can usually add lanes to the new more modern design bridges. This is what they did to a lot of the bridges along the tollway along memorial

[mugofbeer]

OK, l am only just asking the question because l don't recall this earlier in the thread ..... how about a 3rd &/or 4th lane toll lane for most of the Red River to Norman segment? What's adding another billion or so to the upcoming toll road program and let users pay for the widening?

[Plutonic Panda]

Please don’t suggest toll lanes. Keep that crap in Colorado. That start is the dumbest one in the entire country for all the toll lanes they build. What a joke. I’d rather it take 50 more years than it open tomorrow with a toll lane. GTFO here with that sh!t.

[jdross1982]

Please don’t suggest toll lanes. Keep that crap in Colorado. That start is the dumbest one in the entire country for all the toll lanes they build. What a joke. I’d rather it take 50 more years than it open tomorrow with a toll lane. GTFO here with that sh!t.

That response is totally inappropriate!

Texas has added toll roads to major highways in this very manner and while I am not saying OK should do it or not, it is a way to expand the highway system in congested areas.

[bombermwc]

I'm with Plutonic...no tolls. We have enough of that mess now.

TX has gone insane with them. The days of people calling TX roads so good are long since past too. The good roads are the tolls ones and they just let the regular ones fall to pieces....or take 30 years to complete a simple project. When is the last time you saw a decent shoulder on BOTH sides in any urban area? They eat those up for toll express lanes. 635 is a damned joke with the way they did that.

I work with someone that lives on the Ft Worth side, but had to go to the north side (Plano) for a meeting. 2 hr commute and it cost him $40 one way. Better to get a hotel and stay overnight next time.

TX isn't building anything new that's not a toll either. It's insane.

[Mountaingoat]

I'm with Plutonic...no tolls. We have enough of that mess now.

TX has gone insane with them. The days of people calling TX roads so good are long since past too. The good roads are the tolls ones and they just let the regular ones fall to pieces....or take 30 years to complete a simple project. When is the last time you saw a decent shoulder on BOTH sides in any urban area? They eat those up for toll express lanes. 635 is a damned joke with the way they did that.

I work with someone that lives on the Ft Worth side, but had to go to the north side (Plano) for a meeting. 2 hr commute and it cost him $40 one way. Better to get a hotel and stay overnight next time.

TX isn't building anything new that's not a toll either. It's insane.

Good Lord, PP, get some help. Seriously. That was unhinged.

[Plutonic Panda]

No, it wasn’t unhinged or inappropriate. Thicken you skin a little. I love mugofbeer I just think hes been in Colorado too long. Go to Colorado and enjoy their sh!tty roads. Toll lanes on I-25 between Colorado Springs and Denver. Toll lanes on I-25 to Fort Collins now. Toll lanes on the 470. Toll lanes on fu€king I-70 everywhere. It wouldn’t be so bad if they’d add more than one each way but they don’t. Someone at CDOT has a serious toll lane boner they can’t rid of and it’s my problem as I’ve spent almost a thousand dollars by this point over two years on this crap.

All they seem to do is add a single express lane it needs direction and one slow poke, screws the entire thing up and it makes it worse than the main lines. Please don’t bring that crap Oklahoma or spread it elsewhere. Texas is adding toll lanes, but usually they are two lanes in each direction with some exceptions. otherwise they have reversible toll lanes that are also two lanes. Arizona is doing this on I-17.

Please no tolls and Mug me and you need to grab a brew and step into a boxing arena for you suggesting that.

[Plutonic Panda]

Good Lord, PP, get some help. Seriously. That was unhinged.

Come out here and hang out with me. Pay 6 dollar a gallon per gas and then lay insane registration fees and then pay for toll lanes and see if you come off your hinges.

[mugofbeer]

Come out here and hang out with me. Pay 6 dollar a gallon per gas and then lay insane registration fees and then pay for toll lanes and see if you come off your hinges.

Sorry, PP, I didn't really enjoy that kind of response, either.

The drive between Denver and the Springs is fine now because people now have a choice to use the free lanes, which are still there and the toll lane has taken much of the congestion away. Without the toll option there would still be 2 lanes of gridlock. I simply think l-35 between Norman and the Red River needs some out of the box thinking.

How angry are you about 18-wheeler only lanes?

[MagzOK]

I'd be game for adding toll lanes in the middle of 35. There's plenty of room they could do a four-lane turnpike right down the middle and they could do plenty of on-and-offs like the HOV toll lanes in the Dallas area. Doing something like this would also alleviate congestion for wrecks as responders could simply move thru traffic to the unimpeded lanes. 635 in Dallas is great how NTTA and TxDOT has partnered with that. Don't want to drive it then don't and don't pay. It's pretty simple. I'd use it often. I agree with Mug, there does need to be some out of box thinking.

[jdross1982]

I'd be game for adding toll lanes in the middle of 35. There's plenty of room they could do a four-lane turnpike right down the middle and they could do plenty of on-and-offs like the HOV toll lanes in the Dallas area. Doing something like this would also alleviate congestion for wrecks as responders could simply move thru traffic to the unimpeded lanes. 635 in Dallas is great how NTTA and TxDOT has partnered with that. Don't want to drive it then don't and don't pay. It's pretty simple. I'd use it often. I agree with Mug, there does need to be some out of box thinking.

If tolls were an option, I would only suggest for just south of Norman all the way to Edmond adding a lane of traffic each direction. The tolls would pay for the additional costs while lessening congestion. Is it a perfect solution? No. Is it more feasible then some quadruple stack multi level highway? Yes.

As for South of Norman to the RR, definitely think they should expand in smaller sections from S of Norman a few miles and RR up to Ardmore. Between that there isn’t much need for the next 10-15 years.

[Plutonic Panda]

Sorry, PP, I didn't really enjoy that kind of response, either.

The drive between Denver and the Springs is fine now because people now have a choice to use the free lanes, which are still there and the toll lane has taken much of the congestion away. Without the toll option there would still be 2 lanes of gridlock. I simply think l-35 between Norman and the Red River needs some out of the box thinking.

How angry are you about 18-wheeler only lanes?

It wouldn’t be as bad if they added two toll lanes, and each direction as opposed to one. Problem is you get one slow poke and it screws the entire game.

I’m sorry about the response. Seems like people on this site are becoming very soft lately. I don’t see the big deal but if I offended you my bad.

At any rate, this conversations is pointless, because I would be very very surprised if ODOT did that. I’M PRETTY SURE IT WOULD REQUIRE A CHANGE IN STATE LAW FOR ODOT TO OWN AN OPERATE TOll FACILITIES. And why that last sentence just changed to uppercase. I have no idea my phone just did that.

I don’t really mind 18 wheeler only lanes, but those are a few and far between. The ones that I’ve been on automobiles are allowed to drive on them as well so that’s more lanes for traffic. I often enjoy driving around 18 wheelers anyways because they’re better drivers except for when they pass each other going 0.5 miles an hour than the one next to them.

Now I do wish we would have laws and cities that would prohibit the use of semi trucks in the left lane on freeways that have three or more lanes.

Again I need to emphasize I’m not as opposed to toll lanes in general, as I am when a situation arises where there’s only a single toll lane each way. In Dallas for example or out here in LA. They have toll lanes that I use all the time and love that have 2 to 3 lanes each way. I’m fine with those.

And I don’t know how often you’re driving the 25 between Colorado Springs and Denver but I was just on it and it did jack sh!t to help with traffic congestion at least when I was on it. And of course exactly as I said some dude in a Prius was going the same speed as the regular lanes were yes which traffic was moving about 20-25 miles an hour.

[Plutonic Panda]

If tolls were an option, I would only suggest for just south of Norman all the way to Edmond adding a lane of traffic each direction. The tolls would pay for the additional costs while lessening congestion. Is it a perfect solution? No. Is it more feasible then some quadruple stack multi level highway? Yes.

What the hell are you talking about? Who is proposing building a quadruple stack multilevel highway?

[Plutonic Panda]

And you know what if a state like Arizona or Utah can figure out how to build roads without needing tolls to do it I’m sure Oklahoma can too. People in Oklahoma just love tolls, don’t you? In Colorado since that state can’t seem to figure out how to build a single new lane without using tolls to finance it, even though it’s one of the richest states in the country. Things like that don’t add up to me.

[scottk]

And you know what if a state like Arizona or Utah can figure out how to build roads without needing tolls to do it I’m sure Oklahoma can too. People in Oklahoma just love tolls, don’t you? In Colorado since that state can’t seem to figure out how to build a single new lane without using tolls to finance it, even though it’s one of the richest states in the country. Things like that don’t add up to me.

Utah and Arizona don't seem to have near the number of state highways that Oklahoma does to maintain. Due to Oklahoma being "spread out" with small towns dotting the entire state, we seem to have more miles to maintain than Arizona and Utah that have large areas of "nothing" so it is easier to focus efforts on road projects.

I don't love tolls in Oklahoma, but it seems its the only way to build a decently maintained road.

The toll projections from OKC to Tulsa don't look great...



https://kfor.com/news/local/ota-toll...urnpike-users/

[Plutonic Panda]

That is true, but maybe Oklahoma doesn’t need so many roads going in every direction. It would also help if people would be a bit more progressive and investing and infrastructure, raising the fuel tax and allowing ODOT to take out bonds to finance construction projects.

[HangryHippo]

That is true, but maybe Oklahoma doesn’t need so many roads going in every direction.

This.

[bombermwc]

What the hell are you talking about? Who is proposing building a quadruple stack multilevel highway?

You know I was thinking about stacking myself. You could create an express toll with an elevated highway the length of 35 (and getting around that messy downtown shuffle). It doesn't have to fully follow the main 35 path the entire way. It doesn't in Dallas either.

ODOT has said its cost prohibitive to do any widening on 35 (and i think 44...at least north of 40). So stacking may be the only way to get this done. It would be an absolute nightmare to drive while it was built though. At least 1 lane each way closed that entire project.

Now is that gonna happen? no. But hey...think outside the box huh?

[Plutonic Panda]

You know I was thinking about stacking myself. You could create an express toll with an elevated highway the length of 35 (and getting around that messy downtown shuffle). It doesn't have to fully follow the main 35 path the entire way. It doesn't in Dallas either.

ODOT has said its cost prohibitive to do any widening on 35 (and i think 44...at least north of 40). So stacking may be the only way to get this done. It would be an absolute nightmare to drive while it was built though. At least 1 lane each way closed that entire project.

Now is that gonna happen? no. But hey...think outside the box huh?

Actually that might happen and I see what you’re talking about now. Sorry but this thread is about the section between the OKC Metro and TX state line so I thought someone was suggesting elevated segments in the rural areas.

[Snowman]

You know I was thinking about stacking myself. You could create an express toll with an elevated highway the length of 35 (and getting around that messy downtown shuffle). It doesn't have to fully follow the main 35 path the entire way. It doesn't in Dallas either.

ODOT has said its cost prohibitive to do any widening on 35 (and i think 44...at least north of 40). So stacking may be the only way to get this done. It would be an absolute nightmare to drive while it was built though. At least 1 lane each way closed that entire project.

Now is that gonna happen? no. But hey...think outside the box huh?

An building and maintaining an elevated highway would make widening i35 look cheap by comparison, especially since nearly the entire way south of Norman there is enough room to add lanes in the center of existing route.

[TornadoKegan]

I made a map on detours people can take.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/ed...q4&usp=sharing

[TornadoKegan]

Also regarding this imagine frontage roads from Gainesville up to Norman where they exist now. There would be exceptions to this like through the Arbuckles if they did that they’re growth in DFW and Oklahoma City would skyrocket

[Snowman]

Also regarding this imagine frontage roads from Gainesville up to Norman where they exist now. There would be exceptions to this like through the Arbuckles if they did that they’re growth in DFW and Oklahoma City would skyrocket

I am pretty skeptical frontage roads would change much for most of the region between Norman/Gainesville, for medium size cities and suburbs near freeways it does give more capacity to draw additional businesses that can cater to interstate traffic and locals, though often those would just go on the mile grid roads that are near ramps if there are not frontage roads. Plus there is plenty of examples in Texas where there is little to no more population/business draw to long sections of freeways with frontage roads, more traffic, and relatively near to metro areas.