Will Rogers World Airport

[OUman]

^PHL is much more limited in expansion than CLT is, PHL is already landlocked and one of the most congested hubs in the country, I think it ranked among the top 10 airports for most delays last year. The terminal and runway layout there also doesn't allow for much expansion. CLT on the other hand already has four runways and can accomodate a terminal expansion. Plenty of ramp space there too to go around for additional expansion.

[no1cub17]

Though I know we will never have a Skylink, a 152 gates, and mid-rise hotels embedded in the airport, I think we need to grow on what we have.

-----Agree with you completely. OKC is a fine airport and serves our metro area quite nicely. It's just ludicrous to compare to DFW which has been a fortress hub for decades.

Simple things that WRWA needs to have is free Wi-Fi all the time (not just for 20 minutes), at most airports free Wi-Fi is a given.

-------Kind of agree - although I don't think "most airports" have Wi-Fi for free. DFW is the only major hub I've seen with free internet stations, but even there wi-fi is not free. It definitely isn't at other hubs like ORD and DTW. In any case free wi-fi shouldn't be considered a "need" at airports - since so many passengers who will use it are on expense accounts anyway.

Finally, one thing they definitely need to change is not having security check-in in the same area as passengers exiting the terminal, it can be very confusing and crowded at times.

---------I don't quite understand this comment - it's like this a numerous other airports and is simply part of building an efficient terminal layout. Why is it confusing? Just follow the signs to "exit" and it's not confusing. And while it can get crowded, that's probably more on TSA - there are two checkpoints at OKC but they're not always being optimized.

[Kokopelli]

From an organic growth standpoint it is going to be interesting to see how the OKC - CLE route performs.

If it does well perhaps could we also see similar routes added to Bismarck, Pittsburgh and Seattle?

Bismarck; Continental Resources have already announced plans to triple their production in the Bakken play. Could that be enough to make Bismarck - OKC feasible? Bismarck is currently served by Delta, Frontier and United.

Pittsburgh: Has the Utica shale directly to its west and the Marcellus shale to its east, north and south. Plus is the closest airport to new Big 12 member WVU.

Seattle; Boeing is adding a thousand employees in OKC.

If WRWA added the above routes one can see it getting interesting with regards to which airlines are serving OKC.

Demand has to be growing for a link to the banking center of Charlotte. Plus US Airways is the leading carrier at Pittsburgh. The number 8 destination from Pittsburgh is DFW, the number 10 destination is Phoenix. ( carrier and destination are from March 2012 numbers on Wikipedia.)

If WRWA was to get OKC - Seattle service and the SFO route is doing well enough for a second daily flight could those 2 routes be enough to entice Alaska Air to dip their toe into the OKC market.

[jedicurt]

and the SFO route is doing well enough for a second daily flight

I don't know about the OKC to SFO flight (cause i usually take the OKC to Den, then Den to SFO), but i know that the few times i have taken the SFO to OKC flight, it has always been full.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, as venture79 posted a link in the weather thread I came across this on the Will Rodgers website. This is the first I've heard of it and think it's pretty cool.

WRWA > CURRENT PROJECTS

[catch22]

Well, as venture79 posted a link in the weather thread I came across this on the Will Rodgers website. This is the first I've heard of it and think it's pretty cool.

WRWA > CURRENT PROJECTS

That project was completed around January 2012.

[Plutonic Panda]

That project was completed around January 2012.

Wow. I guess I haven't been inside the airport longer than I've thought. I also just ran across the thread for this. Sorry for the trouble. :/

[PhiAlpha]

Does anyone have some old pictures of WRWA before it was renovated. I vaguely remember it, but I didn't fly that much when I was younger and it's been awhile.

[Snowman]

Kind of hard for me to remember the old way, the only feature I don't think I will ever forget was the old security checkpoint



Several parts were featured in this old video

[ljbab728]

Does anyone have some old pictures of WRWA before it was renovated. I vaguely remember it, but I didn't fly that much when I was younger and it's been awhile.

For some reason, this is what I first thought of when I saw your question. This is what I used when I first started flying.

[PennyQuilts]

Husband investigates airplane crashes and has been to every large airport in the United States and many, many in smaller cities. Part of his job is to evaluate airports where crashes take place so he has lots of experience comparing them. He absolutely loves Will Rogers. It's a jewel.

[TAlan CB]

There have been many good points why OKC has not, and will most likey never be a hub. The argument for a hub in the past was it has superior runways - uncommon for a smaller market airport. Perhaps I have missed it, but besides its nearness to other regional hubs - The FAA national center is located here. It's presence elseware is just offices. What airlines would want the federal regulating and training facility to be 'next door'? There are a couple of good reasons to locate a hub here - but I suspect there are equally good reasons not to, and as long as there are other options, they will persuade anyone looking to 'look elseware'. What everyone is really talking about are direct flight options, and that will always have to do with population and demand. Currently, with other options nearby, there isn't enough of either in OKC ... period.

[catch22]

The FAA has nothing to do with not having a hub here. The FAA very rarely even does audits in OKC with the airlines. Maybe once a year.

[venture]

There have been many good points why OKC has not, and will most likey never be a hub. The argument for a hub in the past was it has superior runways - uncommon for a smaller market airport. Perhaps I have missed it, but besides its nearness to other regional hubs - The FAA national center is located here. It's presence elseware is just offices. What airlines would want the federal regulating and training facility to be 'next door'? There are a couple of good reasons to locate a hub here - but I suspect there are equally good reasons not to, and as long as there are other options, they will persuade anyone looking to 'look elseware'. What everyone is really talking about are direct flight options, and that will always have to do with population and demand. Currently, with other options nearby, there isn't enough of either in OKC ... period.

1) OKC really isn't a small market at all. The DOT ranks airports as Large Hub, Medium Hub, Small Hub, Non Hub, and Non-Primary. OKC is literally right on the cutoff from Medium Hub to Small Hub (its rated a small hub). What are examples of Medium Hubs? Omaha, Buffalo, and Burbank. OKC isn't more than a couple hundred thousand pax behind those cities.

2) The FAA training center located on field means nothing. To think that is a reason OKC hasn't seen more substantial service is just foolish.

3) Geography is really the only thing OKC has for it in the hub making department. The local market though isn't big enough for the size of operation some dream about.

When it comes to direct flight options...21 destinations have nonstop flights. We've been through the O&D numbers before and pretty much all the markets that can warrant nonstop service has it today. If we look at the latest information from the DOT on market size there aren't many opportunities left with the current air service out there.

Largest market not served: Seattle. 171 pax per day. That's total per day...so 85 each way. You could maybe convince Alaska to drop one 737 in per day if they are able to get all of the O&D. However, what good is it for a new airline - who is a hub and spoke carrier - to bring just one flight a day?

The rest of the batch of cities are those without service that have more pax than the city with the lowest O&D numbers from OKC - Cleveland.

San Diego, CA	150
San Antonio, TX	144
Boston, MA (Metro Area)	125
Miami, FL (Metro Area)	124
Kansas City, MO	110
Austin, TX	110
Nashville, TN	93
Sacramento, CA	90
New Orleans, LA	87
Tampa, FL (Metro Area)	87
Charlotte, NC	72

• San Diego's primary airlines are WN and AS. If AS won't do SEA, they really won't do SAN. WN has no problem feeding pax through PHX, LAS, and DEN.
• BOS's primary airline is JetBlue and even then the Embraer 190 is still going to be too much airplane for the route.
• MIA has an AA hub but the most it could reasonably be would be a high cost RJ.
• MCI just got axed by Southwest and they are the only substantial airline there.
• AUS is like OKC, just more grown up with a few extra airlines but no one that would jump at offering the route.
• BNA has WN as the dominant airline and it might work as a connecting option, but they won't compete with the new ATL route.
• SMF doesn't have a large dominant airline and the route would only support an RJ.
• MSY has WN as the larger one, but there aren't enough pax for a 737.
• TPA we'll probably see PIE (St. Petersburg) added by Allegiant at some point with a couple flights a week.
• CLT we'll probably see AA/US add as the hub integration progresses to offer more options, but not because of a strong local market.

I've said it before and will say it again, much of the routes are not feasible with the current airlines out there. The most logical option would be to find a regional operator to offer a point to point service to airports like MCI, AUS, BNA, MSY, etc. using the Dash 8 Q400 or ATR 72-600s. They seat plenty and have lower costs than the full size jets. It might also be possible to look at the ERJ 170/190 family for a couple of the others. However, this would all be based on local demand on the routes with limited, if any, connecting traffic opportunity.

I'm not really sure what people expect. The market is what it is. It isn't the smallest, but it isn't the largest. It is a good and healthy mid-sized market.

[Tier2City]

Husband investigates airplane crashes and has been to every large airport in the United States and many, many in smaller cities. Part of his job is to evaluate airports where crashes take place so he has lots of experience comparing them. He absolutely loves Will Rogers. It's a jewel.

I'd be interested to know why he thinks that. As a frequent passenger or for technical (crash-related?) reasons such as large runout areas?

[Tier2City]

I'm not really sure what people expect. The market is what it is. It isn't the smallest, but it isn't the largest. It is a good and healthy mid-sized market.

Excellent thorough analysis. But you won't stop the magical thinking. You know that.

[Tier2City]

Venture:

One quick question - do any passengers actually transfer between flights in OKC? I suppose that would be separate to WN direct flights.

p.s. - any luck on analyzing the international PDEW's?

[catch22]

In the summer time United handles about 10 connecting passengers a day on average, about half that in the winter.

[Tier2City]

In the summer time United handles about 10 connecting passengers a day on average, about half that in the winter.

Interesting - why would they be doing that - just to get segments?

[catch22]

If hub to hub flights are oversold, or a flight cancels between them, the computer system will automatically protect passengers on to the next best routing. That often ends up being OKC because we have nonstop service to every domestic hub.

Some are online:
IAH-OKC-ORD
ORD-OKC-LAX
CLE-OKC-IAH

some are interline:
DEN-OKC-DFW(AA)

Etc.

[PennyQuilts]

I'd be interested to know why he thinks that. As a frequent passenger or for technical (crash-related?) reasons such as large runout areas?

Runways (wide and long with the crosswind); easy access off and on; easy to get around in the terminal; infrastructure seems well maintained; not landlocked - good runway safety areas which he loves; lots of money/source of income compared to other places (less need for federal subsidies); seems like a good operations department; great capacity above and beyond what is needed; ability to expand gates; from what he can tell, the firefighting arrangement is in good shape. He says he likes that they have a smoking section (or used to).

As for me, I love our smaller airport because I hate like poison losing an air traffic slot the way you do in big airports on the east coast.

[catch22]

Also some of those are last minute walk up fares at the hub. And An OKC connection could be cheaper on that walk up fare.

[venture]

Venture:

One quick question - do any passengers actually transfer between flights in OKC? I suppose that would be separate to WN direct flights.

p.s. - any luck on analyzing the international PDEW's?

International stuff, this is the most I could come up with so far. This is the raw data, but I doubt the actual market numbers are this low. Reporting isn't as great as it is for domestic service.

PASSENGERS CARRIER_NAME ORIGIN DEST YEAR MONTH 37 Delta Air Lines Inc. OKC YYZ 2013 1 4 United Air Lines Inc. OKC YYC 2013 1 5 United Air Lines Inc. OKC BZE 2013 1 16 United Air Lines Inc. OKC CUN 2013 2 7 American Airlines Inc. OKC MEX 2013 4 6 American Airlines Inc. OKC MEX 2013 5 7 American Airlines Inc. OKC MEX 2013 6 18 United Air Lines Inc. CUN OKC 2013 2 1 American Airlines Inc. YVR OKC 2013 3 17 American Airlines Inc. YYZ OKC 2013 7

[Tier2City]

Thanks. So I guess no chance on that BA 787 to LHR, right?

Oops - that would be magical thinking!

[Tier2City]

Runways (wide and long with the crosswind); easy access off and on; easy to get around in the terminal; infrastructure seems well maintained; not landlocked - good runway safety areas which he loves; lots of money/source of income compared to other places (less need for federal subsidies); seems like a good operations department; great capacity above and beyond what is needed; ability to expand gates; from what he can tell, the firefighting arrangement is in good shape. He says he likes that they have a smoking section (or used to).

As for me, I love our smaller airport because I hate like poison losing an air traffic slot the way you do in big airports on the east coast.

Thanks - Kai Tak it ain't!