New Arena (formerly Prairie Surf)

[TaoMaas]

I believe it's too soon to make this call. It really depends upon whether we have the need (or the ability to create the need) for 3 arenas/convention centers downtown. If we're able to routinely fill all three spaces, there are a LOT of other areas where we could build hotels near the downtown area.

[Spartan]

Demolishing the Cox Center is a ridiculous idea. Which probably means that those in power are already thinking about it.

[Pete]

It is absolutely not a ridiculous or absurd idea and to dismiss the thought completely is short-sighted.

Devon Tower would never have been built -- at least on anything like the current scale -- except for the fact the city was willing to negotiate on property it owned and have it developed into it's highest and best use. There is currently nothing close to that opportunity now -- except a 38 year-old convention center.

For a major office tower and/or big new employers to locate downtown, there would have to be large coordinated effort regarding obtaining properties, perhaps closing some streets/alleys, erecting big parking structures, etc. As with Devon, it would be far cheaper and hugely more expedient for a developer to demolish and build on a city-controlled site rather than run around trying to piece something together. You think it's a coincidence that the only large-scale private development downtown in the last several decades came on a large tract owned and controlled by the city?

This would an opportunity to leverage the fantastic investment the city and taxpayers are making downtown -- by bringing in more large employers. To sit back and wait and hope hasn't gotten us very far lately.


The simple fact is that Cox will be near the end of it's useful life by the time a new convention center is built and at least in need of significant repairs and upgrades. Rather than throwing money down something that will be less and less used and already largely a black hole in the middle of the CBD, it makes total sense to consider other uses.

There is a reason while loads of other cities (cited in a previous post) have demolished bigger, 'nicer' facilities. Most were built in the same era and taking up valuable space in dynamic city centers.

[Prunepicker]

The Myriad still has a purpose but if something better can be put into
it's place then let's do it.

Wait! I don't live in OKC!

[G.Walker]

It is absolutely not a ridiculous or absurd idea and to dismiss the thought completely is short-sighted.

Devon Tower would never have been built -- at least on anything like the current scale -- except for the fact the city was willing to negotiate on property it owned and have it developed into it's highest and best use. There is currently nothing close to that opportunity now -- except a 38 year-old convention center.

For a major office tower and/or big new employers to locate downtown, there would have to be large coordinated effort regarding obtaining properties, perhaps closing some streets/alleys, erecting big parking structures, etc. As with Devon, it would be far cheaper and hugely more expedient for a developer to demolish and build on a city-controlled site rather than run around trying to piece something together. You think it's a coincidence that the only large-scale private development downtown in the last several decades came on a large tract owned and controlled by the city?

This would an opportunity to leverage the fantastic investment the city and taxpayers are making downtown -- by bringing in more large employers. To sit back and wait and hope hasn't gotten us very far lately.


The simple fact is that Cox will be near the end of it's useful life by the time a new convention center is built and at least in need of significant repairs and upgrades. Rather than throwing money down something that will be less and less used and already largely a black hole in the middle of the CBD, it makes total sense to consider other uses.

There is a reason while loads of other cities (cited in a previous post) have demolished bigger, 'nicer' facilities. Most were built in the same era and taking up valuable space in dynamic city centers.

Exactly, if we want to compete with other cities, we to have to start thinking like them, and follow some of the same paths that the did. Economics 101 tells you that demolishing something old and unuseful, to develop something that will be used and more beneficial to the city is more plausible. How much more money will be poured into the Cox Center for renovations? Everything doesn't last forever, it will have to come down eventually, but after the new convention center is built, it would make sense to demolish the Cox Center.

[john60]

It is absolutely not a ridiculous or absurd idea and to dismiss the thought completely is short-sighted.

Devon Tower would never have been built -- at least on anything like the current scale -- except for the fact the city was willing to negotiate on property it owned and have it developed into it's highest and best use. There is currently nothing close to that opportunity now -- except a 38 year-old convention center.

For a major office tower and/or big new employers to locate downtown, there would have to be large coordinated effort regarding obtaining properties, perhaps closing some streets/alleys, erecting big parking structures, etc. As with Devon, it would be far cheaper and hugely more expedient for a developer to demolish and build on a city-controlled site rather than run around trying to piece something together. You think it's a coincidence that the only large-scale private development downtown in the last several decades came on a large tract owned and controlled by the city?

This would an opportunity to leverage the fantastic investment the city and taxpayers are making downtown -- by bringing in more large employers. To sit back and wait and hope hasn't gotten us very far lately.


The simple fact is that Cox will be near the end of it's useful life by the time a new convention center is built and at least in need of significant repairs and upgrades. Rather than throwing money down something that will be less and less used and already largely a black hole in the middle of the CBD, it makes total sense to consider other uses.

There is a reason while loads of other cities (cited in a previous post) have demolished bigger, 'nicer' facilities. Most were built in the same era and taking up valuable space in dynamic city centers.

Yes X1000. This will at least be considered in the next 10 years.

It boils down to this: In 10 years, this city will have the opportunity to either (1) keep an auxillary arena and auxillary convention center that will be over 40 years old, or (2) have prime space available for development--either to be developed by the city as a transportation hub, or privately at a location that will be second to none.

On a side note, what was on the Leadership Square site before it was built, and how did that happen?

[Pete]

Work on Leadership Square started almost 30(!!) years ago. Hard to believe.

Pretty sure the city was heavily involved as several buildings were demolished and a street was closed in favor of the atrium.


I looked in Steve's book for more about how the project got off the ground but that wasn't specifically referenced.

Steve, can you elaborate?

[bombermwc]

I'm going to make an incredibly simplistic statement for this question (especially since it's come up a million times on this forum).

No - not until there's a new arena that replaces the "Ford Center". It's not like it's empty these days, we have enough stuff coming in to support both arenas, and it's a huge benefit for the Big 12, NCAA, etc. kind of tourney events. Now in another 20 years when the Ford Center is ready to be replaced...doze Cox and build the new arena there. We can make one arena work for a few years while we build a new one and by then Cox will be 50.

[Kerry]

The Myriad/Cox site needs to be cleared with half the property being used for multi-modal train station (connected to Santa Fe station) and the other half sold to be used for office/hotel/residential/retail complex. Revenue generated from selling one half to a developer can then be used to help pay for the train station. Plus, in 10 years the Thunder are going to ask for a basketball specific arena so we will have two arenas anyhow and won't need the arena at Cox. If you think the Ford Center was the last arena OKC is going to build you're crazy.

[Of Sound Mind]

I believe at least the arena portion has received some significant refurbishment/improvement just in the last year.

I'm pretty sure that there were $2 million in improvements made to the Cox Center Arena in advance of the OKC Barons coming to town.

Additionally, the meeting space is still very much useful, even when the new convention center is added. During peak times of the year, it's very difficult to find large meeting space in Oklahoma City. Having BOTH the new convention center AND the Cox Convention Center meeting space will be very helpful to event organizers trying to find large meeting space in the midst of busy convention season. Not all the meeting space in the Cox Center is used by major conventions; many local companies and organizations need the large meeting space for seminars and company events.

After all the furor about Sandridge tearing down buildings, several of which were not being used, why are we so quick to advocate the demolition of a large facility that is very much still in use and has many years of usefulness to come.

[Kerry]

After all the furor about Sandridge tearing down buildings, several of which were not being used, why are we so quick to advocate the demolition of a large facility that is very much still in use and has many years of usefulness to come.

If the goal of the demolition was to replace the Cox site with a plaza you would have a good point. Clearing land to make way for future unspecified uses is also a bad idea. OKC has already learned that doesn't work.

[earlywinegareth]

If there is a bona fide economic need to demolish the Myriad, then it will happen.

[Bigrayok]

I do not know the answer to tearing down the building or not, but I do know the ugly orange seats in the Cox Center are much more comfortable than the Ford Center's seats.

Bigray in Ok

[kevinpate]

If there is a bona fide economic need to demolish the Myriad, then it will happen.

Either that or the right someones decide it would be real nifty to have a honking big plaza in that space

(smirks, ducks, runs)

[Prunepicker]

I do not know the answer to tearing down the building or not, but
I do know the ugly orange seats in the Cox Center are much more
comfortable than the Ford Center's seats.

Bigray in Ok

That settles the debate. Tear down the Ford Center!

[rondvu]

I have to admit there is no leg room in the Ford Center. I am 5'10" with 33 length jeans. My back and legs hurt by the time the event is over. A few times my legs have fallen asleep. That is not fun trying to climb out of the mosh pit. I have avoided some events due to the uncomfortable seating. Also the seating at the Civic Center is a joke. What is with this guard at the end of the isle to prevent attendees from tripping and falling over the edge? I can hear someone yelling Geronimoooooooooooo.

[king183]

I have to admit there is no leg room in the Ford Center. I am 5'10" with 33 length jeans. My back and legs hurt by the time the event is over. A few times my legs have fallen asleep. That is not fun trying to climb out of the mosh pit. I have avoided some events due to the uncomfortable seating. Also the seating at the Civic Center is a joke. What is with this guard at the end of the isle to prevent attendees from tripping and falling over the edge? I can hear someone yelling Geronimoooooooooooo.

Geez! I haven't been in the Civic Center in a while, but no one can convince me the city is being a good steward of our money if they have enough to put an entire damn island in the building!

[Prunepicker]

Geez! I haven't been in the Civic Center in a while, but no one
can convince me the city is being a good steward of our money
if they have enough to put an entire damn island in the building!

The Ford Center is almost as comfortable as the Fairgrounds
Arena. Note ALMOST. The Fairgrounds Arena IS NOT
comfortable by any stretch of the imagination. In fact it
stinks like BO.

The Floor of the Ford Center is comfortable. Wait! The seating
can be manipulated!

Never mind.

[LuccaBrasi]

It's far too early to decide the best use for this site. Several have touched upon viable options, but until the new CC is up and running in 7+ years, only then can this question be pondered. With both venues, the City does have the ability to attract various tournaments like the Big 12 by having a smaller complimentary venue to the OKC arena. That was their marketing cry a few years back, something like 53 steps bewteen championships. I could see the bowl staying with the surrounding parts and pieces one day coming down for other street facing development. It's also prime real estate, so if the City ever wanted to demo, it may one day be an option. I have heard the Mayor address this question and his answer is we're probably 10 years out from even asking it. The market will determine it's use......... Barons, Big 12, other, demo for mixed use, canal extension, highrise, or whatever. Until then, have fun speculating since the ideas for the site are endless. It is also true that one day we'll need a new arena. Even with the new modofications, that arena will still on day fall behind others that will also be renovated or new ones built. That might be 15 years out, but the day will come. It's all in the timing, the market, and the demand.

[bombermwc]

I'm with Lucca here...good evaluation of it.

[flippity]

please, no more construction/destruction....getting around downtown is already a nightmare

[Patrick]

We truly need to learn a tip from back east and quit demolishing structures around here. The buildings on the Sandridge campus could've easily been reused for housing like McDermid and the Triangle group proposed. The Cox Center is a versatile facility, and is still very much being used. As long as its use is in demand, I see no use in tearing it down. Might as well keep improving it while it's still being used. Many shows don't want an arena as large as the OKC Arena, and the Cox Center fits the bill. Plus, it's perfect size for the OKC Barons. And the convention hotels across the street are still very much using the convention space. I'd only consider discussing demolition if it weren't still in use and in demand. Even though we will be getting a newer larger convention center, there are still many smaller groups out there that will be well served by the smaller space the Cox Center offers.

[Pete]

bump

[Rover]

We truly need to learn a tip from back east and quit demolishing structures around here. The buildings on the Sandridge campus could've easily been reused for housing like McDermid and the Triangle group proposed. The Cox Center is a versatile facility, and is still very much being used. As long as its use is in demand, I see no use in tearing it down. Might as well keep improving it while it's still being used. Many shows don't want an arena as large as the OKC Arena, and the Cox Center fits the bill. Plus, it's perfect size for the OKC Barons. And the convention hotels across the street are still very much using the convention space. I'd only consider discussing demolition if it weren't still in use and in demand. Even though we will be getting a newer larger convention center, there are still many smaller groups out there that will be well served by the smaller space the Cox Center offers.

Why is it that people don't think demolition happens back east? I guess they don't travel and see much. I have been in NYC for the past week and see many spots of destructed buildings and new construction taking the place.

[soonerguru]

Why is it that people don't think demolition happens back east? I guess they don't travel and see much. I have been in NYC for the past week and see many spots of destructed buildings and new construction taking the place.

You've pointed out the key difference. In NYC, when there's demolition there's almost always new construction lined up (whether or not for higher purposes aesthetically or for better use). OKC, however, has been scarred for decades by demolition in which new construction was promised, but never delivered upon.