The Ember

[Crocodile Tears]

I still want to ride the roads, what about people walking the roads? or riding their bike or as I have seen pushing their baby stroller??What are we to do if we dont want to move and build again from stratch. What about us older folks in our 60s??

Push for edmond to become more walkable and less car dependent. Dense urban development solves all of these problems.

I always find it funny that people who live/grew up in and around edmond think they are from the country. It’s a sprawling suburb that is choked with traffic because of poor planning and a non existent street grid. It isn’t country being invaded by density, it’s suburbia being made a tad better by density.

There are tons of actual rural communities in Oklahoma if that’s the lifestyle you want. Edmond is not one of them. Never really has been truly rural. Sure, it used to be a smaller suburb in the past, but a suburb nonetheless.

[Midtowner]

If you're saying folks in Edmond consider it rural, perhaps you or they don't really understand what rural life entails. You're not really rural unless you can shoot a gun on your property and not have to worry about anyone being disturbed by it.

I don't think anyone is upset that the city core is being developed, though I always thought that corner would be purchased by St. John's.

[oklip955]

If you're saying folks in Edmond consider it rural, perhaps you or they don't really understand what rural life entails. You're not really rural unless you can shoot a gun on your property and not have to worry about anyone being disturbed by it.

I don't think anyone is upset that the city core is being developed, though I always thought that corner would be purchased by St. John's.

I live east of I 35 and have for 40 yrs. I have ridden and driven the roads for many many years. I am not on a small lot or small acreage. Yes i have shot a gun on my place. My beef is the traffic now in front of my place. I drove home from church tonight and went to turn into my drive. On coming car crossed over into my land. and about hit me. I drive a stick shift truck. I slowed down to make a right hand turn into my drive in front of my front gate. You might be rural if you have a front gate and you drive your pickup around your place. Its not even safe for me to drive my pickup on the road in front of my place. This is the second time this has happened in about 2 weeks. Last time I did pop my clutch and drove as fast as my low gear 1st would allow into the bar ditch. i am also tired of these almost head ons. I am still looking for the ya hooo in the car with the tag OHP ...... that was passing 3 cars over a solid line no passing zone and i had to head for the bar ditch to avoid getting hit head on. He should know better. Dag it people, stay on your side of the road.

[oklip955]

St John's did not buy it most likely due to the high price.

[jerrywall]

I don't think anyone is upset that the city core is being developed, though I always thought that corner would be purchased by St. John's.

For some reason I thought I had heard at one point they did have a contract option to purchase it, so it was a surprise to see this development. I guess I heard wrong though, unless they decided not to take the option.

[Midtowner]

I live east of I 35 and have for 40 yrs. I have ridden and driven the roads for many many years. I am not on a small lot or small acreage. Yes i have shot a gun on my place. My beef is the traffic now in front of my place. I drove home from church tonight and went to turn into my drive. On coming car crossed over into my land. and about hit me. I drive a stick shift truck. I slowed down to make a right hand turn into my drive in front of my front gate. You might be rural if you have a front gate and you drive your pickup around your place. Its not even safe for me to drive my pickup on the road in front of my place. This is the second time this has happened in about 2 weeks. Last time I did pop my clutch and drove as fast as my low gear 1st would allow into the bar ditch. i am also tired of these almost head ons. I am still looking for the ya hooo in the car with the tag OHP ...... that was passing 3 cars over a solid line no passing zone and i had to head for the bar ditch to avoid getting hit head on. He should know better. Dag it people, stay on your side of the road.

Man.. you had a good run with that rural stuff, no? It's only going to get worse. I hope the Council and planners do a better job with east Edmond and do something now rather than later to ensure traffic has more places to flow than the section lines.

[Sooner.Arch]

I live east of I 35 and have for 40 yrs. I have ridden and driven the roads for many many years. I am not on a small lot or small acreage. Yes i have shot a gun on my place. My beef is the traffic now in front of my place. I drove home from church tonight and went to turn into my drive. On coming car crossed over into my land. and about hit me. I drive a stick shift truck. I slowed down to make a right hand turn into my drive in front of my front gate. You might be rural if you have a front gate and you drive your pickup around your place. Its not even safe for me to drive my pickup on the road in front of my place. This is the second time this has happened in about 2 weeks. Last time I did pop my clutch and drove as fast as my low gear 1st would allow into the bar ditch. i am also tired of these almost head ons. I am still looking for the ya hooo in the car with the tag OHP ...... that was passing 3 cars over a solid line no passing zone and i had to head for the bar ditch to avoid getting hit head on. He should know better. Dag it people, stay on your side of the road.

If you have beef with the traffic then advocate for better public transportation. More and more people will and do drive. Adding more roads has proven to cause more traffic. Only option is a some sort of railway (light rail). That will take many cars off the street, add/expand sidewalks, and allow those who do require driving less traffic. Imagine if Edmond had multiple stations/stops. Think about how many less cars would be on the street. It is the only way.

[Midtowner]

If you have beef with the traffic then advocate for better public transportation .

We're probably 50-100 years away from public transportation in east Edmond. And light rail out there? Just don't post if you know so little about the area.

[Rover]

I still want to ride the roads, what about people walking the roads? or riding their bike or as I have seen pushing their baby stroller??What are we to do if we dont want to move and build again from stratch. What about us older folks in our 60s??

Then you need to move out where there are no other people and yet the government wants to build you roads for horses and strollers. Otherwise, get the huge appreciation out of your land and go buy more than 10 acres in a remote area where no people will bother you. The same people whom you obviously despise are what has made your land valuable enough to do this. Go build your own horse trails to town and pretend it is 1910 in Oklahoma.

Owning 10 acres does not entitle one to stop everyone else from progressing.

BTW, 60s is still young these days. From the sound of your messages here, I would have thought you to be in your 80s or 90s. You’ve likely many, many years to ride your horse, but the roses aren’t going to get less congested.

[Crocodile Tears]

The honest truth regarding Edmond's traffic issues is that it is simply not fixable. Besides a tiny fraction of area around downtown, The entirety of Edmond is set up to send all traffic to section roads. Forcing all traffic to use one route will cause the traffic congestion we have seen for years.. This problem cannot be solved by widening section roads or installing smart stop lights. The only solution would be leveling entire square miles and implementing a grid system. This will obviously never happen, and traffic problems will persist.

Every area of the metro that has traffic issues is caused by a lack of grid. You cannot engineer your way around it.

[jerrywall]

^^ I largely agree, but I do think there can be some improvements in how traffic moves. We need some true arterial roads across Edmond, and then some smarter designs on the collector roads such as turn lanes, center lanes, etc. For example, I think BLVD could be modified from Memorial to 2nd - and while I appreciate the work they're doing on Covell, that will never be a good E/W corridor, due to all the entrances and driveways along that road.

As far as public transit being a fix, our bussing has decent coverage and hours, and is free, and still isn't heavily used. All the time when people complain about parking in downtown (which has never been a problem for me), I suggest parking and riding downtown (from Wal-Mart, Crest, Target - there are lots of options). They always look at me like I've grown a third head. I don't think enough people will take advantage of it to really have a big impact on our traffic. Not that I'm not a HUGE supporter of it. I'm just not optimistic on the widescreen adoption. I do love it for an option for those that need or want it.

[Crocodile Tears]

^^ Yes there are some Band-Aids you can add to try and slightly alleviate the problem. But honestly, any attempt at improving the existing layout will lead to negligible improvements at best and is probably not worth the money it costs to put in. It would just be just throwing good money after bad.

if proposing a dozen new houses in an area causes immediate mass panic about the potential for new traffic problems burdening the existing road system, then you have already lost.

The best way to fix Edmond (or NWOKC or Moore, or...) traffic is to stay far away from them. These are design problems that cannot be fixed.

[Hollywood]

If you're saying folks in Edmond consider it rural, perhaps you or they don't really understand what rural life entails. You're not really rural unless you can shoot a gun on your property and not have to worry about anyone being disturbed by it.

I don't think anyone is upset that the city core is being developed, though I always thought that corner would be purchased by St. John's.

Seconded. I work in Edmond but live in rural Missouri half the week. No cell coverage, a county school district in lieu of city by city, thirty minutes to any shopping outside of Dollar General or the mills. Can shoot, cut and burn timber, or work the farm however we feel best without anyone's blessing. That is rural.

[Plutonic Panda]

Man.. you had a good run with that rural stuff, no? It's only going to get worse. I hope the Council and planners do a better job with east Edmond and do something now rather than later to ensure traffic has more places to flow than the section lines.

I’d be very surprised if they did that.

[Sooner.Arch]

I am born and raised in Edmond LOL. I know Edmond, I know its people. You are the type of edmondite that freeze the inevitable growth of our city. Also im an urban designer, I know how cities work. Don't make stupid statements bud. A light rail is possible. Travel to the suburbs of the world and you will see what I mean.

[Plutonic Panda]

I am born and raised in Edmond LOL. I know Edmond, I know its people. You are the type of edmondite that freeze the inevitable growth of our city. Also im an urban designer, I know how cities work. Don't make stupid statements bud. A light rail is possible. Travel to the suburbs of the world and you will see what I mean.

What on earth are you going on about? I was born in Edmond too and grew up there. So what. LRT doesn’t make sense right now. Maybe in the future it might. Now a streetcar network going from downtown to Stephenson Park and UCO might be good.

Commuter rail is already coming with a park and ride station planned at Coffee Creek and Broadway and downtown. A public parking garage is in the works in downtown Edmond as is a pedestrian bridge or tunnel to cross the tracks which will be near the multimodal transit hub as part of the second commuter rail station in Edmond if it’s approved. Every city is different and has its own unique needs. I’d rather see an orbital light rail network connecting the downtowns of each suburb like Melbourne is doing rather than focusing on a LRT to DTOKC.

[BoulderSooner]

I am born and raised in Edmond LOL. I know Edmond, I know its people. You are the type of edmondite that freeze the inevitable growth of our city. Also im an urban designer, I know how cities work. Don't make stupid statements bud. A light rail is possible. Travel to the suburbs of the world and you will see what I mean.

this shows you have 0 idea of what you are talking about

[Rover]

The honest truth regarding Edmond's traffic issues is that it is simply not fixable. Besides a tiny fraction of area around downtown, The entirety of Edmond is set up to send all traffic to section roads. Forcing all traffic to use one route will cause the traffic congestion we have seen for years.. This problem cannot be solved by widening section roads or installing smart stop lights. The only solution would be leveling entire square miles and implementing a grid system. This will obviously never happen, and traffic problems will persist.

Every area of the metro that has traffic issues is caused by a lack of grid. You cannot engineer your way around it.

You want every area and every street to be in a strict square grid layout? And all 2 lane? All 20 mph limits? What then? Make all the houses alike? Good grief. It isn’t that rigid even in Russia and China.

And, if you really think Edmond has high traffic issues, I suggest you travel more and see what it is like in other cities the size of Edmond attached to large cities. It is bad compared to what it might be in Pawnee or Burns Flat, but it isn’t bad. Anything can be declared good or bad depending on where you set the bar.

[Grant]

There are varying degrees of grids though. It doesn't have to resemble downtown OKC with 100% square blocks and every single street on the grid. Instead of pushing 100% of traffic out to section line roads, why not divide that into fourths? A lot of traffic in OKC that would otherwise clog up May and Penn takes Independence and Villa.

Most of our suburbs suffer from this issue - Moore, Edmond, Mustang, etc. They all failed to adequately plan for the growth they've experienced.

[Crocodile Tears]

You want every area and every street to be in a strict square grid layout? And all 2 lane? All 20 mph limits? What then? Make all the houses alike? Good grief. It isn’t that rigid even in Russia and China.

And, if you really think Edmond has high traffic issues, I suggest you travel more and see what it is like in other cities the size of Edmond attached to large cities. It is bad compared to what it might be in Pawnee or Burns Flat, but it isn’t bad. Anything can be declared good or bad depending on where you set the bar.

I'm not sure what you are rambling about but I was replying to the people discussing the traffic in Edmond. I was describing that new development is not the cause of worse traffic, it is poor design that is to blame.

I don't want anyone to do anything. I'm just saying the only options are to deal with it or move. It cant be fixed in any meaningful way.

I'm not complaining about Edmond traffic, I don't really care how traffic is there. I was responding to people who live in Edmond who always complain about the traffic. The problem is not a new development that adds a couple more houses on small lots somewhere.

China? Russia? Your post makes zero sense.

[onthestrip]

You want every area and every street to be in a strict square grid layout? And all 2 lane? All 20 mph limits? What then? Make all the houses alike? Good grief. It isn’t that rigid even in Russia and China.

And, if you really think Edmond has high traffic issues, I suggest you travel more and see what it is like in other cities the size of Edmond attached to large cities. It is bad compared to what it might be in Pawnee or Burns Flat, but it isn’t bad. Anything can be declared good or bad depending on where you set the bar.

Uhh, all of central OKC is like this. You have to get out of the I44/240/35 loop before you might find anything thats not on a grid. Kind of a weird comment.

[PhiAlpha]

I am born and raised in Edmond LOL. I know Edmond, I know its people. You are the type of edmondite that freeze the inevitable growth of our city. Also im an urban designer, I know how cities work. Don't make stupid statements bud. A light rail is possible. Travel to the suburbs of the world and you will see what I mean.

Yeah all of us racists who grew up in Edmond with our racist families and friends who post on okctalk, yet are all somehow completely ignorant to the modern wonders of urban design, would never allow such a thing as light rail in our city despite the “fact” that it’s so obviously cost effective and feasible.

Please, O great urban design king, please use your infinite knowledge of Edmond and urbanism to show us the errors in our ways…we know not what we do.

…Who the hell is this guy?

[Tyson]

This thread is weird lol. Not what I expected when I started it. Some nice houses are getting built in the already rapidly growing Edmond which makes complete sense for the needs of the city and will fit perfectly. Yay!

[PhiAlpha]

This thread is weird lol. Not what I expected when I started it. Some nice houses are getting built in the already rapidly growing Edmond which makes complete sense for the needs of the city and will fit perfectly. Yay!

lol, that was a spillover from a post by SoonerArch that was deleted in another Edmond thread

[Midtowner]

I am born and raised in Edmond LOL. I know Edmond, I know its people. You are the type of edmondite that freeze the inevitable growth of our city.

Nah, we just grew up in a suburban community full of low density development, live next to a city with high density development, which is for many of us only about a 10-15 minute drive away, so we're not interested in all of the noise and light pollution, increased traffic congestion, etc. which comes along with more high density development. Growth is good if you're making a buck off of it, but for everyone else, it's not necessarily something we're interested in seeing. This particular development doesnt' concern me as it's likely that any owners of these sorts fo homes are going to be seniors, so there's not much chance the increased density is going to impact our schools.

Also im an urban designer, I know how cities work. Don't make stupid statements bud. A light rail is possible. Travel to the suburbs of the world and you will see what I mean.

I've read a lot of urban designers over the years. There is an inherent bias towards increased density, even "green" development. You pooh-pooh the idea of suburban homes sitting on acres and acres with manicured lawns as wasteful and even harmful. Public transit is of course high on your list of priorities. You say you know Edmond, and that you've apparently travelled the world, so can you tell me in what part of the world are folks who live in suburban communities with lots in excess of 1/4 acre riding public transit? And since there's no current rail infrastructure in east Edmond, I suppose you think it would be cost effective to build rail lines out where there are homes sitting on 5, 10, 20 acres, and the land is still largely undeveloped?

Not everyone wants urbanism or urban planners to tell them how to live or what sorts or properties they should be allowed to own.