Raven (formerly VZD's)

[td25er]

I don't understand smokers. "Yeah let's pay ridiculously high prices to smell bad and slowly kill ourselves."

[bchris02]

I don't understand smokers. "Yeah let's pay ridiculously high prices to smell bad and slowly kill ourselves."

I was a pack-a-day smoker until last year. It's something never-smokers don't understand but it is one of the most addicting things and it is actually very enjoyable. Also when you are a smoker you don't notice the smell. From the perspective of a smoker getting that nicotine buzz is worth the health risks. I think the social stigma though is slowly but surely pushing more younger people to quit. They say if you quit by the time you hit 30, your chances of lung cancer isn't much higher than non-smokers. Now that I have quit I hate going to smoking bars. I wonder at what point bar owners will go non-smoking on their own. I would think we are getting to a point where smoking pushes away potential customers more than it attracts. Most smokers have no problem going out on the patio for a cigarette, but most non-smokers can't stand to be in a smoke-filled bar.

[Rover]

Most smokers have no problem going out on the patio for a cigarette, but most non-smokers can't stand to be in a smoke-filled bar.

Smoking on patios and outside the front door, etc. is still pretty offensive. There is nothing like having to go through a half dozen smokers smoking at the front door of a restaurant just to get in. And one of the reasons to want to sit outdoors is to enjoy the fresh air, not to smell 2nd hand smoke. It is disgusting. Can't wait for Oklahoma to catch up.

Just an observation, but after spending the last month in NYC, all the millennial hangouts seemed populated with smokers. Is that a new sign of millennial "independence"? Maybe it was just where I went.

[Bullbear]

all of my friends who smoke support the no smoking in Bars concept oddly enough.

[Pete]

Oklahoma needs to get with the majority of the rest of the country and western Europe and just ban smoking altogether from bars and restaurants, then everyone is playing on a levle field.

All the studies show that after a period of adjustment, business goes up as a result.

In this day and age, it's hard to imagine an enclosed bar (or any public space) that still allows people to smoke.

[Bullbear]

Oklahoma needs to get with the majority of the rest of the country and western Europe and just ban smoking altogether from bars and restaurants, then everyone is playing on a levle field.

All the studies show that after a period of adjustment, business goes up as a result.

In this day and age, it's hard to imagine an enclosed bar (or any public space) that still allows people to smoke.

100% agree.. when we have visitors from out of state they always say.. " eww you can smoke in bars".. we are really behind the curve

[Pete]

You can't imagine how hard it is to come from a place where you are literally never around smoke, to somewhere like Oklahoma where people are smoking all over the place.

It's not only disgusting, it contributes to a culture where smoking is much more socially acceptable and thus smoking rates stay higher.

Not surprisingly, OK has one of the highest smoking rates in the country. The impact on the healthcare system is enormous, both in terms of tax dollars and higher insurance premiums.


California was one of the first places to ban it and there was certainly an adjustment period, especially with the Hollywood crowd. But it didn't take long for all that to change and even among my actor / production friends, there is very little smoking. That changed pretty darn quickly.

I worked for a music company and also consulted for several movie studios and right before the bar/restaurant ban, people would even smoke in their private offices, even though it was against the law. Was always a part of the culture in the biz. I had a boss who smoked in her office and I'd have to sit in meetings with her while she puffed away.

After the ban, all that stopped. The culture just shifted.


Same exact thing with talking on the phone and texting while driving. Once the law changed, you had more to fear from people who would honk and yell at you than from the police.

[bchris02]

You can't imagine how hard it is to come from a place where you are literally never around smoke, to somewhere like Oklahoma where people are smoking all over the place.

North Carolina banned smoking in bars and restaurants in 2009, so pretty recently compared to a lot of states. Being a heavy smoker at the time I was pretty ticked about it, but after a few months I got used to it and it made nights out a lot more enjoyable for everyone. I did notice the culture start to shift at that point and smoking suddenly became much less acceptable.

[Jeepnokc]

I am a little torn on this issue. I do not smoke cigarettes but do smoke an occasional cigar. I have no issue with non smoking bars (and actually prefer a non smoking bar most of the time) but do not think that there should be a state ban that would prohibit all indoor smoking which would include cigar (or even hookah) bars. By cigar bars... a place designed for and marketed for cigar smoking...not just a bar that allows cigar smoking. As I am the type that won't light up a cigar if there is anyone remotely around me that isn't smoking and would have to smell the smoke, I like having a designated cigar bar to enjoy a glass of scotch and smoke a nice Padron. If there are enough people to support that type of establishment, then one should be allowed to operate. (if we are going to argue public health/safety....then all bars should be closed as alcohol is bad for health and public safety (DUI))

The smoking ban wasn't the only reason VZDs closed according to statements on here attributed to their facebook page... " he also was hit with 6 digit expenses related to ADA litigation and resultant building retrofits" along with some health issues. There have been several successful bars that have opened or changed policies not allowing indoor smoking. So Fine, Mule, Granddads, Saints, Skinny Slims, Doll House.

[bchris02]

I agree. There definitely needs to be an exception for cigar and hookah bars if a smoking ban is ever put into place.

[Pete]

There are cigar bars/lounges in California. Not sure how they work, but they are around.

And the point about pushing smokers out to the outdoor space is a good one. Most places gradually banned smoking on the patios as well, and the laws here require smokers to stay a fair distance from any doors.

[Jeepnokc]

There are cigar bars/lounges in California. Not sure how they work, but they are around.

And the point about pushing smokers out to the outdoor space is a good one. Most places gradually banned smoking on the patios as well, and the laws here require smokers to stay a fair distance from any doors.

That is a good point. They should be away from the door or it defeats the purpose. There were a couple of places I was at this year that didn't allow cigar bars as they banned all indoor smoking. I think they were Philadelphia and New Hampshire. I am not positive, but I do not think you can even smoke a cigar inside a cigar shop lounge in Washington

[Snowman]

There are cigar bars/lounges in California. Not sure how they work, but they are around.

And the point about pushing smokers out to the outdoor space is a good one. Most places gradually banned smoking on the patios as well, and the laws here require smokers to stay a fair distance from any doors.

The law here is at least 25 feet from a door, however you still see a ton of people do it standing right at them or light up in large crowds just exiting the doors from a large event.

[Rajah]

I love the Sauced patio but in the evening it is so smokey I would almost rather just grab my pizza and walk back home. I have on a couple occasions.

[bchris02]

I love the Sauced patio but in the evening it is so smokey I would almost rather just grab my pizza and walk back home. I have on a couple occasions.

Likewise with the aLoft upstairs patio.

[Pete]

BTW -- and I know we are off subject -- Oklahoma not only allows smoking in bars and restaurants, it also has legislation that specifically bars cities from imposing stricter standards.

Just another crazy bit of hypocrisy from our state legislature, where they scream about allowing states to make their own decisions, then remove those same rights from cities.

I know for a while Wisconsin had no state-wide ban but Madison made their own law. After their ban went so well, Milwaukee then followed suit and then the whole state eventually changed over.

So, Oklahoma is going out of it's way to try and nip this movement in the bud, and thus further driving the health of the state to the very bottom of the country.


And yes, I know some places are volunteering to go smoke free but the movement really only takes hold when everyone participates, and thus has a meaningful impact on smoking rates.

[Mel]

I wonder how much tobacco lobbyists spend in OK?

[Wishbone]

I had 3 people in front of me on the way home yesterday throw their cigs out the car window. One of them landed on my hood. Why do smokers not think this is littering???

[Roger S]

I had 3 people in front of me on the way home yesterday throw their cigs out the car window. One of them landed on my hood. Why do smokers not think this is littering???

Argh.... Don't even get me started on this topic.... To put it bluntly I think tossing a cigarette out of a car window should be a capital offense... Forget the fines... forget jail time... Just go ahead and do what the idiots are doing to themselves... Just at a little faster pace.

[Urbanized]

Ironically the reason so many people do that these days is because it has become socially unacceptable to have an ash tray full of butts in your car...

[IanMcDermid]

Ironically the reason so many people do that these days is because it has become socially unacceptable to have an ash tray full of butts in your car...

When was the last time some one made a car with an ashtray?? I quit a year ago and haven't been sick a day since vs working at the fry and taking antibiotic 4 times a year for bronchitis.

The Pump will be non inside and bathrooms and smoking on the covered and non covered patio. The covered patio will have conditioned air and table service. I tried to make the best of both worlds. Not everyone will be happy. But when does that EVER happen?

[Roger S]

.... Not everyone will be happy. But when does that EVER happen?

In the service industry?.... HA! NEVER!

[windowphobe]

When was the last time some one made a car with an ashtray??

Porsche's new Macan has an optional Smokers Package; it's the only Porsche option I know of that costs $0, so I suspect at least some dealers will add it to the ten or twenty grand worth of extras they usually tack on.

[IanMcDermid]

Porsche's new Macan has an optional Smokers Package; it's the only Porsche option I know of that costs $0, so I suspect at least some dealers will add it to the ten or twenty grand worth of extras they usually tack on.

Yeah I ticked that option on my 2005 Mini Cooper order. It was an ashtray that fit inside the cup holder and a lighter inside the "phone charger."

[Urbanized]

True story indeed...