CACI International

[stile99]

if incentives are the only thing keeping them here, let them leave and let us reinvest their incentives--all incentives--in initiatives such as our education system.

Sounds like a plan, let's do it! First initiative in which we should reinvest: All those people suddenly out of a job.

[king183]

You really wanna call their bluff? I wouldn’t. And an elected official for damn sure isn’t going too.

I do, because I don't believe incentives are the only factor keeping them here, but if they are the only thing keeping them here, then we need to realize we're going to lose Boeing (or whatever company) anyway because some richer (or more foolish) city or state will outbid us. Further, I believe the incentives, if invested into improving education systems or other productivity enhancing initiatives, will derive a much better long term return than paying off major corporations to temporarily stay here.

But you're right: very few elected officials will have the courage to take the long term approach.

[king183]

Sounds like a plan, let's do it! First initiative in which we should reinvest: All those people suddenly out of a job.

If the only thing keeping people employed at these companies is our willingness to use precious, scarce tax dollars to pay a multi billion dollar corporation to employ them, then those people are already doomed--it's just a matter of when the company leaves or cuts the jobs. History repeatedly bears this out. I'd rather be spending that money to ensure our workforce and children have the proper education such that they have wider employment opportunities or could successfully start their own enterprise. Right now, we're not doing that.

[soonerguru]

I do, because I don't believe incentives are the only factor keeping them here, but if they are the only thing keeping them here, then we need to realize we're going to lose Boeing (or whatever company) anyway because some richer (or more foolish) city or state will outbid us. Further, I believe the incentives, if invested into improving education systems or other productivity enhancing initiatives, will derive a much better long term return than paying off major corporations to temporarily stay here.

But you're right: very few elected officials will have the courage to take the long term approach.

I think you are right about this with some companies, but not Boeing. They are corporate prostitutes. Eventually, they will leave OKC, too, just like they did Wichita and so many other places. We should enjoy the affair while it lasts.

[catch22]

I think you are right about this with some companies, but not Boeing. They are corporate prostitutes. Eventually, they will leave OKC, too, just like they did Wichita and so many other places. We should enjoy the affair while it lasts.

Perhaps, but that is taking a very simple look at their business. They left Wichita because of mission changes that resulted in consolidation with OKC.

The decision to close was made as military programs at the plant matured, came to a close or were winding down with few prospects for new work.

http://www.kansas.com/news/business/...le1153168.html

[BLJR]

I have the pleasure of working in this facility everyday. There is still about 700,000 (give or take) of sq ft available for tenant expansion. Ownership is making the inside of the building incredible.

[jonny d]

To me, the incentives should be given to companies that provide QUALITY jobs in this city. Which, in this case, is a no-brainer.

[gopokes88]

http://m.newsok.com/a-quarter-billio...3?rotator=true

Some good information in there

[Pete]

That article says they also considered the Washington DC area.

They will be paying their employees an average of less than $57K per year, which means most of them will be making closer to $40K.

You can barely afford a cheap apartment in the DC area for those types of wages.

[warreng88]

City trust to consider $1.5 million in incentives

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record March 19, 2018

OKLAHOMA CITY – The Oklahoma City Economic Development Trust is expected to support nearly $1.5 million in incentives Tuesday toward the creation of 680 jobs in the city.

The largest of three projects would be $1.25 million for CACI International Inc. to build a new operations center at 7725 W. Reno Ave. If the City Council agrees with the deal, the data services company would receive the General Obligation Limited Tax, or GOLT, proceeds to develop the site in exchange for 550 jobs over five years and additional capital investment between $8 million and $11 million.

According to city staff and the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber, a deal has been in the works since January. The company chose the city for the availability of affordable real estate, cost of doing business, access to skilled personnel and a general receptiveness by city officials. CACI International, with 18,600 employees worldwide, provides information services to national security agencies in intelligence, defense and federal government sectors.

The second company considered by the trust is DuraCoatings Holdings LLC and its subsidiaries DCI Industries, 5710 NW Fourth St., and Applied Industrial Coatings, 13920 S. Meridian Ave. The trust is expected to approve $100,000 to support the company’s growth in aerospace and petroleum manufacturing and maintenance. The company now has nearly 100 employees. It would add 49 over seven years. In exchange, the company would invest about $7 million in infrastructure, equipment and facilities.

The third company is American Tissue Industries LLC, 50 N. Council Rd., which is looking for up to $125,000 to install new process equipment. The company is a wholly owned subsidiary of Solaris Paper in Buena Park, California, which has 500 employees nationwide. In exchange, the company would invest about $37 million in new equipment and facilities.

If all three of the incentive packages are approved, they would provide a total economic impact to the city of more than $420 million over three to five years. The companies promise first-year annual wages ranging from $47,000 to $57,000.

[gopokes88]

That article says they also considered the Washington DC area.

They will be paying their employees an average of less than $57K per year, which means most of them will be making closer to $40K.

You can barely afford a cheap apartment in the DC area for those types of wages.

Rephrase this, not sure I follow.

"According to a memorandum prepared for the trust by its staff, CACI would be required to create about 550 new jobs in Oklahoma City during the next five years that would have an average wage of $56,999"

That means most will make $57k yeah?

[AP]

No. If it was a median of 57K, it would mean that. Mean/average is heavily affected by outliers. When marketing something like this, companies use an average to purposefully make it look like a higher number than it will be.

[Pete]

Rephrase this, not sure I follow.

"According to a memorandum prepared for the trust by its staff, CACI would be required to create about 550 new jobs in Oklahoma City during the next five years that would have an average wage of $56,999"

That means most will make $57k yeah?

That is the average, meaning there are always a small percentage of management that makes quite a bit more while the majority make less.

I would bet that most the 550 make closer to 40K which equates to $20/hour.

[gopokes88]

That is the average, meaning there are always a small percentage of management that makes quite a bit more while the majority make less.

In a smaller company maybe, but 550 jobs management shouldn't throw that average off too much. Would be curious what the median is.

[Pete]

In a smaller company maybe, but 550 jobs management shouldn't throw that average off too much. Would be curious what the median is.

The bigger the company, the more discrepancy between the higher paid, average paid and lower paid.

Anyway, let's say most people make $50K, just for the sake of argument. That is near poverty level in DC, which was my original point. I almost took a job there once and turned it down due to the incredibly high cost of living.

It ranks only behind NYC, San Jose and San Francisco in regards to percentage of income as a function of cost of living.

[gopokes88]

The bigger the company, the more discrepancy between the higher paid, average paid and lower paid.

Anyway, let's say most people make $50K, just for the sake of argument. That is near poverty level in DC, which was my original point. I almost took a job there once and turned it down due to the incredibly high cost of living.

It ranks only behind NYC, San Jose and San Francisco in regards to percentage of income as a function of cost of living.

Agreed. DC is insanity.

Some other interesting notes,

"As for Oklahoma City's shared services center, Asbury said CACI will consolidate various information technology and human resources help desks for its employees into the office, and plans to also bring its transaction processing and data analytics work here as well. Over time, the company also will move its information technology backup capabilities to Oklahoma City, too."

Long term lots of consolidation in the OKC branch, which is a good thing.

[Pete]

^

It also explains why most the jobs are not very high paying. A lot of help desk and data processing.

For comparison, the new SkyWest maintenance facility near the airport will have an average salary of over $61K per year. Even the Niagara Bottling plant will have an average salary of over $42K per year.

[Bellaboo]

^

It also explains why most the jobs are not very high paying. A lot of help desk and data processing.

For comparison, the new SkyWest maintenance facility near the airport will have an average salary of over $61K per year. Even the Niagara Bottling plant will have an average salary of over $42K per year.

If developers which I'd assume (programmers if on a mainframe), this could be on the high end of the scale. Hardly any manual data entry anymore anywhere.

[Pete]

I'm not talking about data entry, but more back-of-the-house data processing which is what the article seems to be describing.

Lots of servers, database management, etc.

There are reasons why the salaries are not high.

[Bellaboo]

I'm not talking about data entry, but more back-of-the-house data processing which is what the article seems to be describing.

Lots of servers, database management, etc.

There are reasons why the salaries are not high.

I work with 40 developers (vb.net) - The average for straight out of school is 45 K. Two years experience they are pushing 60 K. The team leads are over 80 k. My previous job for 30 years was on an IBM mainframe. My salary 10 years ago and I wasn't in management but was exempt, was over 75 k. With great benefits also.

[Pete]

I work with 40 developers (vb.net) - The average for straight out of school is 45 K. Two years experience they are pushing 60 K. The team leads are over 80 k. My previous job for 30 years was on an IBM mainframe. My salary 10 years ago and I wasn't in management but was exempt, was over 75 k. With great benefits also.

Which goes to show that most the jobs will not be of this nature, because the average is only $57K.

[jonny d]

So basically OKC gets screwed over again? All the negativity is killing me...

[Pete]

So basically OKC gets screwed over again? All the negativity is killing me...

Great that we are getting a bunch of jobs.

I am merely raising a question of the paying millions in corporate welfare, especially when the jobs are not high-paying... And when it seems pretty obvious they would come here even without these incentives.

[gopokes88]

So basically OKC gets screwed over again? All the negativity is killing me...

I don't think screwed.

These are pretty good jobs with pay right around the median for the metro, but as Pete pointed out maybe not as good they are advertised.

Overall 550 jobs is significant and the potential for growth is also significant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._capita_income

[gopokes88]

Great that we are getting a bunch of jobs.

I am merely raising a question of the paying millions in corporate welfare, especially when the jobs are not high-paying... And when it seems pretty obvious they would come here even without these incentives.

You are right, but corporate welfare just isn't that black and white from a political standpoint. Why risk losing out on something, when you can spend someone else's money and secure it?

It's just not the real world to expect people to behave different. Won't change without a national ban on tax incentives.