Festival of the Arts

[Just the facts]

Chicago is known as the "City with big shoulders", OKC is going to be known as "The City that doesn't say no(to those with connections)"

OKC - the City with big knees.

What exactly is being "relocated" anyhow? It is just some tents. If the park needs additional water and electric - why is it the responsibility of FofA to provide it and not the City? After all, the park belongs to the City. I also had to LOL about comments being disabled on NewsOK. That is pretty weak.

[Pete]

Yes, let's cut off public discussion about how tax dollars are spent.

Really, we should stop calling them "TIF Funds". They are tax dollars plain and simple.

These articles should be worded: "Millions in tax dollars appropriated from Oklahoma City Public Schools to be gifted to the Arts Festival for tents and signage."

[Just the facts]

Yes, let's cut off public discussion about how tax dollars are spent.

Really, we should stop calling them "TIF Funds". They are tax dollars plain and simple.

These articles should be worded: "Millions in tax dollars appropriated from Oklahoma City Public Schools to be gifted to the Arts Festival for tents and signage."

You know, it is stuff like this (the redistribution of tax dollars to the private sector) that the millennials really hate, which is ironic because the City says this is the group they are trying to attract. And it's not just the millennials either; real Teapartiers like myself are tired of this crap. The whole reason for reurbanizing the core is so that it can be tax self-sustaining but this stuff blows the whole idea out of the water.

Let me add this comment as well - will these groups please please please stop with the economic justifications. No one with 5 cents worth of common sense is buying that line anymore. You want $1.5 million in tax dollars and the selling point is it will generate $200,000 in tax dollars - how about we just say no and keep the $1.5 million.

[Pete]

People just don't understand the TIF issue which is the way people running those programs want it.

It works out to be about the same as a full MAPS program which involves years of prep and input, tons of public meetings and vetting and ultimately a popular vote. Good grief, we are already forming committees and taking input for MAPS 4 now.

TIF is just a few people deciding to redirect hundreds of millions of tax dollars, the City Council has a 100% approval rate in all these matters so that's just a rubber stamp, then a couple of people sit behind closed doors gifting tens of millions to mainly rich people and then the City Council 100% approves each handout.

And if anyone on the council asks questions or God forbid actually seeks to deny a new district or allocation, they are branded as a progress-hating infidel.

Ed Shadid is the only one that speaks about this but I can assure you he is not alone in his scrutiny and skepticism.

[jerrywall]

Trouble is you can be right, but if you burn a lot of bridges it's hard to get people to listen to you.

[Pete]

And all they need are 5 votes anyway and probably at least 6 of the 9 are lead-pipe cinches for anything put forth in the name of 'economic development'.

[Pete]

This was just approved in today's City Council meeting.

[shawnw]

sounds like it's pretty easy to get 1.5M in TIF, let's all apply! :-P

[bradh]

Chicago is known as the "City with big shoulders", OKC is going to be known as "The City that doesn't say no(to those with connections)"

Are you suggesting that Chicago is clean? That's laughable

[Jersey Boss]

Are you suggesting that Chicago is clean? That's laughable

Nope. I don't know how that inference could be made. There is no such thing as any city being "clean". Anyone suggesting otherwise is ill informed.

[bradh]

Nope. I don't know how that inference could be made. There is no such thing as any city being "clean". Anyone suggesting otherwise is ill informed.

I just got a kick out of Chicago being lauded as the "city with shoulders" when it's widely known to have one of the most corrupt governments in the country. The shoulders are only used to make whistleblowers sleep with the fishes lol

[Pete]

BTW, the primary argument Couch made for the reason the festival had to be moved ASAP (as opposed to waiting a year then doing this relocation as a part of Central Park) is that the OG&E construction would make the current location unusable.

That makes zero sense to me and I hope to get further clarification on that point.

[shawnw]

There was also something tweeted about the arts council wanting to wait to move to central park until after area development had picked up.

[Jersey Boss]

I just got a kick out of Chicago being lauded as the "city with shoulders" when it's widely known to have one of the most corrupt governments in the country. The shoulders are only used to make whistleblowers sleep with the fishes lol

Chicago by Carl Sandburg : Poetry Magazine


Chicago

By Carl Sandburg

Hog Butcher for the World,

Tool Maker, Stacker of Wheat,

Player with Railroads and the Nation's Freight Handler;

Stormy, husky, brawling,

City of the Big Shoulders: ....

If you were unfamiliar with the nickname I see your confusion.

[Anonymous.]

Is it possible to grant the "TIF" money and then use invoices from the "relocation costs" and repay back the difference to the city? LOL I already know the answer to that.

But seriously, is there a way to see invoices for this extravagant relocation?

[Pete]

There was also something tweeted about the arts council wanting to wait to move to central park until after area development had picked up.

So the taxpayers should give them $1.5 which will be thrown away once they do move?

And how about the using the Festival to help kick off the park, get people down there and spur more development?

[shawnw]

I agree with you...

[Jersey Boss]

Something just ain't right about the way the TIF program is utilized in OKC. I do wonder though if an investigation would ever be done knowing who the recipients and givers are.

[Just the facts]

I still don't understand though. What is being relocated?

[shawnw]

They're moving the air from one place to another. Don't you know it's tough to move air? And very expensive.

[Just the facts]

They're moving the air from one place to another. Don't you know it's tough to move air? And very expensive.

While humorous, they aren't even doing that. They will use the air that already exists at Civic Park. I seriously wonder if this is hush money. Here is $1.5 million now go away quietly because we need your space for the CC.

[trousers]

They're moving the air from one place to another. Don't you know it's tough to move air? And very expensive.

[Pete]

While humorous, they aren't even doing that. They will use the air that already exists at Civic Park. I seriously wonder if this is hush money. Here is $1.5 million now go away quietly because we need your space for the CC.

The will have to install extra electrical and plumbing to accommodate them and they also mentioned tents and signage.

[Just the facts]

The will have to install extra electrical and plumbing to accommodate them and they also mentioned tents and signage.

Yes - buy why is the Festival of the Arts paying for that? The property belongs to the City. That is nothing more than money laundering on behalf of the City by diverting county tax money for schools to make improvements at City owner land and just using the FotA has a middleman. I'm not joking when I say the FBI should take a look at this.

As for tents and signage - that is so crazy it should have been laughed at. And I won't even get started on the whole "blight" requirement at a City park just rebuilt as part of Project 180.

[Pete]

The project plan for TIF #2 specifically allows for investment in public properties.

Centennial Park was entirely paid for by the Devon TIF (with a kick-in from Larry Nichols).