OKC vs Tulsa Billionaires

[Laramie]

Tulsa is indeed blessed to be the benefactor of the wealth and generosity of George Kaiser.

Let's not forget, Harold Hamm:

His younger wife took him to the cleaners - Harold Hamm's $975 Million Divorce Check: First Rejected, Then Cashed, Now Taxed: https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertw.../#38a65e4077d9

[OKCretro]

Kaiser was the largest shareholder in Solyndra.
https://newsok.com/article/3621823/o...house-solyndra

[pw405]

Seems that OKC's billionaires could team up and... at least do half of what Kaiser has done?

A little googling led me to these, but I thought there were a few more?

David Green - Hobby Lobby founder Net worth ~$6,000,000,000
Tom & Judy Love - Love's Country Stores founders - Net Worth: ~$5,000,000,000
Chad Richison - Paycom founder - Net worth: ~$1,300,000,000

[onthestrip]

Ah... doesn’t OKC miss Aubrey now? We haven’t had another Uber wealthy citizen step up yet. Tulsa wealthy families have historically been more civic minded in their philanthropy. OKC has Funk and Hamm now. Nuff said.

We also have the Greens. But they only seem to spend money on biblical artifiacts and bailing out or buying christian colleges.

Tulsa is indeed blessed to be the benefactor of the wealth and generosity of George Kaiser.

Let's not forget, Harold Hamm:

His younger wife took him to the cleaners - Harold Hamm's $975 Million Divorce Check: First Rejected, Then Cashed, Now Taxed: https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertw.../#38a65e4077d9

Hamm's ex has been very philanthropic since the divorce. She has not held back on giving and she is to be applauded as well. Im not here to bash Hamm because he has spread some money around and if he has committed to the Gates' giving pledge, then thats awesome. But sure, when compared to what Kaiser is doing now, Hamm pales a bit. But hes not done giving Im sure and hes already donated more than all but a few Oklahomans.

Kaiser was the largest shareholder in Solyndra.
https://newsok.com/article/3621823/o...house-solyndra

Ya, so?

[Mballard85]

Seems that OKC's billionaires could team up and... at least do half of what Kaiser has done?

A little googling led me to these, but I thought there were a few more?

David Green - Hobby Lobby founder Net worth ~$6,000,000,000
Tom & Judy Love - Love's Country Stores founders - Net Worth: ~$5,000,000,000
Chad Richison - Paycom founder - Net worth: ~$1,300,000,000

Good luck with this one, he is too busy running his employee's into the ground to worry about actually helping his community.

[TheSteveHunt]

(Charity) is not a solution: it is an aggravation of the difficulty. The proper aim is to try and reconstruct society on such a basis that poverty will be impossible. And the altruistic virtues have really prevented the carrying out of this aim. Just as the worst slave-owners were those who were kind to their slaves, and so prevented the horror of the system being realised by those who suffered from it, and understood by those who contemplated it, so, in the present state of things in England, the people who do most harm are the people who try to do most good; and at last we have had the spectacle of men who have really studied the problem and know the life – educated men who live in the East End – coming forward and imploring the community to restrain its altruistic impulses of charity, benevolence, and the like. They do so on the ground that such charity degrades and demoralises. They are perfectly right. Charity creates a multitude of sins.

-Oscar Wilde

[Swake]

It's not just Kaiser.

Tulsa also has the Schustermans (Samson Energy), the Helmerichs, (H&P) the Cadieux family (Quik Trip), the Warrens (Tulsa World and Warren Petroleum), Taylor-Lobeck family (Dollar-Thifty and Tulsa's former mayor), the Rooney family (Manhattan Construction), and many others. Many of which, if not most, are liberal.

[Rover]

(Charity) is not a solution: it is an aggravation of the difficulty. The proper aim is to try and reconstruct society on such a basis that poverty will be impossible. And the altruistic virtues have really prevented the carrying out of this aim. Just as the worst slave-owners were those who were kind to their slaves, and so prevented the horror of the system being realised by those who suffered from it, and understood by those who contemplated it, so, in the present state of things in England, the people who do most harm are the people who try to do most good; and at last we have had the spectacle of men who have really studied the problem and know the life – educated men who live in the East End – coming forward and imploring the community to restrain its altruistic impulses of charity, benevolence, and the like. They do so on the ground that such charity degrades and demoralises. They are perfectly right. Charity creates a multitude of sins.

-Oscar Wilde

Yes we know your view. Helping people is a Sin and unChristian. The real sinners are kind and givers.

What a distorted view we are being fed these days.

[TheSteveHunt]

Just an interesting take from an interesting writer.

[Rover]

Just an interesting take from an interesting writer.

An interesting writer who was outspokenly anti family, church, middle class and industry.

[BG918]

Seems that OKC's billionaires could team up and... at least do half of what Kaiser has done?

A little googling led me to these, but I thought there were a few more?

David Green - Hobby Lobby founder Net worth ~$6,000,000,000
Tom & Judy Love - Love's Country Stores founders - Net Worth: ~$5,000,000,000
Chad Richison - Paycom founder - Net worth: ~$1,300,000,000

Also the Gaylord family, how many of them still live in OKC? I know Clay Bennett married into the family. Obviously big OU donors.

[AP]

When my wife was in the non-profit world, it was widely known that Tulsa was more philanthropic than OKC. I want to say that their gala goal amount each year was twice as big in Tulsa than OKC because of this. This is purely anecdotal and may be based on that specific, national non-profit. I don’t know why, but it is very interesting.

[bombermwc]

Hamm and Richison (Paycom) are examples of what's wrong with high income earners these days. They trample on the backs of their employees and seek only to increase their own personal wealth regardless of what sustainability they lose along the way. They dont care about what happens in the community (so far as their company name at least still 'looks' good), so they give just enough to the right places to make them look like they do.

It's by no means unique to these two individuals though. This problem has been building since the 80's. The idea of more more more more more at the expense of the worker. Gone are the times that employers take a responsibility for their employees. It's not that employees want a hand-out. It's not about getting ridiculous benefits. It's about being respected as a person, being fairly compensated for their work, and not being forced to choose between mortgage and health insurance.

So what can they do about it? Stop with the top-down approach. Study after study after study shows that it doesn't work and only continues to give those at the top, a break they dont need. Cause that CEO really needs a company car, like they can't afford it on their own. Come on. Reinvest in your employees. If you have employees that enjoy coming to work, they are more productive. If you have employees that feel respected, they are loyal (even for less pay). <-That's been shown from many studies as well. Don't just put all that cash into private equity firms and their "returns". BS! The employees should be coming first. All the bullcrap the private equity folks pull is ridiculous. Their focus is narrowed only to squeezing another buck for their own pocket. Not about what can be done to make the best company/product possible. If you have a good product, the growth will come with it.

[BoulderSooner]

Hamm and Richison (Paycom) are examples of what's wrong with high income earners these days. They trample on the backs of their employees and seek only to increase their own personal wealth regardless of what sustainability they lose along the way. They dont care about what happens in the community (so far as their company name at least still 'looks' good), so they give just enough to the right places to make them look like they do.

It's by no means unique to these two individuals though. This problem has been building since the 80's. The idea of more more more more more at the expense of the worker. Gone are the times that employers take a responsibility for their employees. It's not that employees want a hand-out. It's not about getting ridiculous benefits. It's about being respected as a person, being fairly compensated for their work, and not being forced to choose between mortgage and health insurance.

So what can they do about it? Stop with the top-down approach. Study after study after study shows that it doesn't work and only continues to give those at the top, a break they dont need. Cause that CEO really needs a company car, like they can't afford it on their own. Come on. Reinvest in your employees. If you have employees that enjoy coming to work, they are more productive. If you have employees that feel respected, they are loyal (even for less pay). <-That's been shown from many studies as well. Don't just put all that cash into private equity firms and their "returns". BS! The employees should be coming first. All the bullcrap the private equity folks pull is ridiculous. Their focus is narrowed only to squeezing another buck for their own pocket. Not about what can be done to make the best company/product possible. If you have a good product, the growth will come with it.

This is not remotely accurate in general and not true specificly for the 2 job creators you mention

[hoya]

Well, leaving aside the Manifesto written above, I think it's pretty clear that OKC's billionaires have been more concerned with growing their companies than charitable giving. Not that there's anything wrong with that, they don't have an obligation to give hundreds of millions of dollars to their city. Would I prefer if they did? Of course. Harold Hamm could finance your dream Producers Coop development today, by signing a check. Or Maps 4. Or an OKC area rail system. But I can't expect a 70-something year old oil man to wake up one day and decide to give away part of his fortune on the desires of some young whipper-snappers.

[Jersey Boss]

This is not remotely accurate in general and not true specificly for the 2 job creators you mention

"Job creators", a term coined by the GOP about 8 years ago. The term was coined to deflect attention away from the wealthy and the disproportiante benefits they enjoy under the tax code and influence they have in comparison to wage earners.

[dankrutka]

This is not remotely accurate in general and not true specificly for the 2 job creators you mention

This is type of lazy post is my pet peeve. You claim that a long and specific post is "not remotely accurate" without providing any evidence or even clarifying your claims. This just adds nothing to the dialogue.

[BoulderSooner]

If the post I referenced contained any facts and was not just a smear post with an anti capitalism agenda. Maybe it would have elicited a longer response

[gopokes88]

My wife made well into 6 figures after only a couple years working at paycom. He may run employees into the ground but they are extremely well compensated, paycom has some of the highest paying non engineering/ non O&G jobs in the city. Also her stock options are worth well into 6 figures as well. Largely because she helped build a company and was rewarded with ownership in the company.

So to slam on Chad at paycom as getting rich on the backs of his employees is asinine and false. His employees grind but they get wealthy through the grind.

And I know a lot of executives who will tell you the most charitable thing they can do is build a company that provides incredible employement opportunities for the city. Steve jobs held the same view.

Okc is a player in the energy world largely because of Hamm. We’re in an important city because of CLR and CHK. Without Hamm we quickly become Tulsa.

Last Hamm isn’t worth $15 billion right now. Closer to $9-10. Hamm doesn’t have the straight cash Kaiser does. Almost all of his “wealth” is CLR ownership, he donates too much stock he loses control of CLR.

[dankrutka]

Well, leaving aside the Manifesto written above, I think it's pretty clear that OKC's billionaires have been more concerned with growing their companies than charitable giving. Not that there's anything wrong with that, they don't have an obligation to give hundreds of millions of dollars to their city. Would I prefer if they did? Of course. Harold Hamm could finance your dream Producers Coop development today, by signing a check. Or Maps 4. Or an OKC area rail system. But I can't expect a 70-something year old oil man to wake up one day and decide to give away part of his fortune on the desires of some young whipper-snappers.

No, they don't have to be charitable, but they also shouldn't be able to influence municipal, state, and federal legislation to benefit their own wealth disproportionately, which has been happening for years. Hamm is one citizen with incredible influence who both directly (fighting teacher pay raises) and indirectly (favoring his interests over other groups) drowns out the voices and needs of others in the community through his influence. Wealth disparity has increased dramatically and is economically unhealthy for the state and country. I don't think Hamm should have to donate if he doesn't want to, but I do think he should be taxed in more equitable ways for the common good. He is able to influence legislation to ensure that he neither has to be a charitable giver nor an equitable tax payer (as an individual and corporation).

[Mballard85]

This is not remotely accurate in general and not true specificly for the 2 job creators you mention

Its correct to one of them for sure, I know multiple people that work for him including my wife.

[Mballard85]

Removing per wife request.

[BoulderSooner]

Its correct to one of them for sure, I know multiple people that work for him including my wife.

I know multiple people that work for both companies and both companies compensation packages are very very competitive in their respective industries.

[BoulderSooner]

Ask someone at a accounting firm if they can not work lots of hours come tax time?? There are requirements in individual industries that are known.

[dankrutka]

If the post I referenced contained any facts and was not just a smear post with an anti capitalism agenda. Maybe it would have elicited a longer response

These are just excuses to actually use evidence to make an argument. First, if you actually think the post was a smear then address the specific points, but many of them have been reported elsewhere. I am open to a different evidence as I am not an expert in this area, but alas, you provided none. And, second, painting any critiques of the market simply as "anti-capitalism" is just a way to avoid the conversation. Critiquing how the market works is fundamental to a functioning democracy as has been evident by numerous economic crises created by business people throughout U.S. history.