NFL in OKC

[OKCRT]

NFL teams make 65 mil a year in revenue in just National TV money (goes to 125mi in 2014) not counting ticket sales

the Jags made 25 mil last season being run poorly ..and losing lots of games ... in 14 they make 60 mil more for doing nothing differently .. and if they start winning money goes up much faster ...

also they are not going to move from Jax anytime soon .. they have the strongest lease in the league and goes to 2030 ..

and they just sold for 760 B ..

Shad Khan the new kid on the block bought the Jags after first trying to buy the Rams. Shad is a billionaire and owns some type of auto parts co. that sells world wide.Rams owner Stan Kroenke had 1st right of refusal and ended up buying the Rams 100% after he already owned 40%. Stan is worth over 4 bil and his wife Ann (Walton) Kroenke is worth close to 5 bil. They are now in the process of working on a stadium in St. Louis. Stan also owns the Denver Nuggets and Pepsi center. He also owns the Arsenal Soccer team in London. His son Josh played for Mizzou BTW and now runs the Denver Nuggets. Then we have Jerry Jones... Point is,does OKC have any of these types that are willing to step up and buy an NFL team? More than likely it would prob. have to be an expansion team but whoever get one of those expansion teams better have a bil of disposable money laying around. Is Harold Hamm an NFL fan?

[MikeLucky]

Shad Khan the new kid on the block bought the Jags after first trying to buy the Rams. Shad is a billionaire and owns some type of auto parts co. that sells world wide.Rams owner Stan Kroenke had 1st right of refusal and ended up buying the Rams 100% after he already owned 40%. Stan is worth over 4 bil and his wife Ann (Walton) Kroenke is worth close to 5 bil. They are now in the process of working on a stadium in St. Louis. Stan also owns the Denver Nuggets and Pepsi center. He also owns the Arsenal Soccer team in London. His son Josh played for Mizzou BTW and now runs the Denver Nuggets. Then we have Jerry Jones... Point is,does OKC have any of these types that are willing to step up and buy an NFL team? More than likely it would prob. have to be an expansion team but whoever get one of those expansion teams better have a bil of disposable money laying around. Is Harold Hamm an NFL fan?

The OWNERSHIP part is easy... we certainly have people in OKC that can afford to BUY a team... unfortunately OKC is not a viable market to SUSTAIN a team. That's the whole point here. It's not about being able to buy a team.

[BoulderSooner]

Not in the legal sense, but as Al Davis learned, owners that try to move without the league's blessing don't get very far. He could move in name, but the league gave him the cold shoulder. He was forced to move back and tried to sue them again, losing pretty significantly. That's why the league can put restrictions and conditions on a team moving to LA now, because moving without the league is a poor prospect.

And while it's true that, before taxes and other obligations, most franchises do earn money (there's usually at least one exception every year), they don't typically earn money for the city/state, just the people who run the franchises. That's why there was a backlash in Seattle against building a new arena for the Sonics that wasn't at least half-funded by the owners, cities usually lose money on sports franchises. City's agree to bear some of the costs of building stadiums because they view it as valuable amenities, not because it benefits the bottom line for anyone other than the owners (and even then, it may not be enough to recoup the investment costs). If the state at large had to put up 600 million to build an NFL stadium, it'd be a pretty bad investment even if we could make a team of billionaires materialize out of thin air to buy a franchise.

al davis won the law suit ... the NFL did not want him to move back to oakland ...

[Hawk405359]

al davis won the law suit ... the NFL did not want him to move back to oakland ...

You've got it backwards. They were in Oakland until 81. Davis tried to get a new arena deal, failed, then wanted to move the team to LA. The league voted against it and there was an injunction filed. Davis sued the league on anti-trust grounds, won, and got the right to move to LA. The deal never really worked out for him and he tried to move back to Oakland in 89. That fell through, but it wasn't the league that did it, it was other issues. Then a few years later, he moved back and sued the NFL, saying they didn't support him enough in the move, and he lost that lawsuit.

He won the lawsuit that allowed him to move to LA in 82, but lost the one about the lack of support from the league after he was forced to move back.

[jedicurt]

al davis won the law suit ... the NFL did not want him to move back to oakland ...

wrong on so many levels... Al tried to move the team to LA in 1980, and the NFL filed a court injunction to prevent him from doing so. In 1982, he won, and moved the team.

the lawsuit in 1995 when he moved the team back to Oakland had nothing to do with could he move the team, it was that he believed the NFL and the other owners purposely sabotaged his attempt to build a new stadium at Hollywood Park in Inglewood. the NFL won this case, in 2001 if i remember correctly, and about 2 years later it was over turned by the appellate court. This was when there was talk again of Al wanting to move the team back to LA cause the court had ruled in his favor and he thought the NFL would not stand in his way. Then it went to the State supreme court of california and in 2007, they ruled against the Raiders and that was the end of that case.

Al Davis was also the only NFL owner to side with the USFL in their antitrust suit in 1986.

Davis also tried to sue the NFL saying that he had sole authority for an LA team sometime in the mid 1990's but that never really got anywhere.



so here are the facts... yes, an owner can move a team, really anywhere and at any time they want, but the league has it's ways of saying no.... and on the idea of buying a team and moving it here... the NFL votes on all majore ownership purchases... so if a group from OKC wanted to buy an NFL team to bring here, they would have to get approved by the NFL owners before the sale of the team went through. and i already know of 3 owners that would vote against, the cowboys, rams, chiefs.. because it would affect their markets.

[BoulderSooner]

so i got the move the nfl tried to block incorrect ... but the point is owners can move their team ... period ...

[MikeLucky]

so i got the move the nfl tried to block incorrect ... but the point is owners can move their team ... period ...

Actually the point is they really can't.

[Hawk405359]

so i got the move the nfl tried to block incorrect ... but the point is owners can move their team ... period ...

Theoretically, I could become starting QB for the Detroit Lions, it doesn't mean I could actually pull it off. That's really the point, Davis did move the team, and then had to move back because going against every owner in the league made it unsustainable. The league as an entity does a lot for franchises, Davis underestimated what he could do on his own and tried to sue for what the league wouldn't do. In that, he failed.

Practically speaking, you need the league's blessing if you're going to be viable. If Davis couldn't make it work in LA, the second biggest media market in the country, than an errant billionaire who somehow buys a team (league still has to approve ownership, that wasn't part of the suit) isn't going to be able to move to a small market without league approval. That's the reality of the situation, it takes more than a billion dollars and brass balls to get a viable NFL franchise in a city. At the end of the day, the league won the war against Davis, they got what they wanted, the team back in Oakland and their own power strengthened.

[Teo9969]

Now, that all that has been said, if current trends remain, OKC will be as large or larger than Cleveland by 2035. If current trends diverge in a fortuitous direction, then it could be even sooner...

[OKCRT]

The OWNERSHIP part is easy... we certainly have people in OKC that can afford to BUY a team... unfortunately OKC is not a viable market to SUSTAIN a team. That's the whole point here. It's not about being able to buy a team.

What do you mean OKC is not a viable market? You fill the stadium 8 times a year. Yes 8 games a year... Did you hear me right? 8 games a year you have to fill the stadium for NFL football. Easily done in just about any market. OKC is not a transient city like LA or Atlanta or even Dallas. Look at the Thunder as example. The City would go full bore for an NFL team.

What you need is some big boys to pick up the slack when your team is not winning after 5-7 years. The NFL has a blackout rule and if the home team does not sell enough tickets then the game is blacked out in the home city.This creates an eviroment where fans start losing interest in the team. Bad NFL rule that needs to change IMO.

But as far as being a viable market? Hogwash. A new nfl owner wants to control the lucrative parking/tailgaiting areas/lots around the stadium. They want a cheap/low lease with stadium. But the NFL has revenue sharing so every team is going to make a huge amount of money from the tv contract. It has nothing to do with OKC being a viable market. In fact,supporting an NBA team is harder than supporting and NFL team. OKC could EASILY support an NFL team, Tulsa could EASILY support an NFL team.... Now go try and get one,that's a whole other story. But OKC not having or getting an NFL team has nothing to do with being a viable market,Nothing.

[Snowman]

so here are the facts... yes, an owner can move a team, really anywhere and at any time they want, but the league has it's ways of saying no.... and on the idea of buying a team and moving it here... the NFL votes on all majore ownership purchases... so if a group from OKC wanted to buy an NFL team to bring here, they would have to get approved by the NFL owners before the sale of the team went through. and i already know of 3 owners that would vote against, the cowboys, rams, chiefs.. because it would affect their markets.

As long as you are paying enough to make the price of all franchise rise it is usually a rubber stamp to buy a team

[OKCRT]

Jerry Jones would fight it to his death. Jerry not only claims Tx but Ok. and Arky as well. He has enough power/nfl owner buddies to veto Okc. I doubt OKC will ever get an NFL team unless we see a growth spurt akin to Atlanta.Then Jerry would be put out to pasture.

[BoulderSooner]

Jerry Jones would fight it to his death. Jerry not only claims Tx but Ok. and Arky as well. He has enough power/nfl owner buddies to veto Okc. I doubt OKC will ever get an NFL team unless we see a growth spurt akin to Atlanta.Then Jerry would be put out to pasture.

Again if x person is the owner of a team the nfl can't stop a move Al Davis moved his team to a city that already had a team

[MikeLucky]

What do you mean OKC is not a viable market? You fill the stadium 8 times a year. Yes 8 games a year... Did you hear me right? 8 games a year you have to fill the stadium for NFL football. Easily done in just about any market. OKC is not a transient city like LA or Atlanta or even Dallas. Look at the Thunder as example. The City would go full bore for an NFL team.

What you need is some big boys to pick up the slack when your team is not winning after 5-7 years. The NFL has a blackout rule and if the home team does not sell enough tickets then the game is blacked out in the home city.This creates an eviroment where fans start losing interest in the team. Bad NFL rule that needs to change IMO.

But as far as being a viable market? Hogwash. A new nfl owner wants to control the lucrative parking/tailgaiting areas/lots around the stadium. They want a cheap/low lease with stadium. But the NFL has revenue sharing so every team is going to make a huge amount of money from the tv contract. It has nothing to do with OKC being a viable market. In fact,supporting an NBA team is harder than supporting and NFL team. OKC could EASILY support an NFL team, Tulsa could EASILY support an NFL team.... Now go try and get one,that's a whole other story. But OKC not having or getting an NFL team has nothing to do with being a viable market,Nothing.

I guess you just aren't paying attention. And, you obviously know NOTHING about the economics of the NFL. Filling the cheap seats is irrelevant. You have to have enough corporate support to pay for 100+ luxury suites EVERY year. We are not even close.

Again, this shouldn't even be a conversation.

[dankrutka]

OKC is not a viable market for a second pro team. There's been a ton of research done on this and a city needs about a million people (OKC may actually need a little more because the average salary is so much lower than in other major cities) for every pro team. OKC is just big enough to support one pro team. Getting a second one would not work long term. This discussion will be relevant again once OKC is over 2 million people in the metro...

[Teo9969]

OKC is not a viable market for a second pro team. There's been a ton of research done on this and a city needs about a million people (OKC may actually need a little more because the average salary is so much lower than in other major cities) for every pro team. OKC is just big enough to support one pro team. Getting a second one would not work long term. This discussion will be relevant again once OKC is over 2 million people in the metro...

Right, which will likely be some time between 2030 and 2040...That's not that far away folks...

[dankrutka]

Right, which will likely be some time between 2030 and 2040...That's not that far away folks...

Yeah, but if everyone's population is growing near the same rate... then there may be a lot of competition: World Population - YouTube

BTW, I'd also argue that OU and OSU football serve as de facto professional franschises by the financial commitment they require. An NFL team would definitely harm those programs severely.

[Teo9969]

Yeah, but if everyone's population is growing near the same rate... then there may be a lot of competition: World Population - YouTube

BTW, I'd also argue that OU and OSU football serve as de facto professional franschises by the financial commitment they require. An NFL team would definitely harm those programs severely.

They're not though. OKC is the 9th fastest growing MSA among the Top 50 MSAs. Cleveland and Detroit's populations are actually declining. Cincy, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, are all barely growing.

[dankrutka]

They're not though. OKC is the 9th fastest growing MSA among the Top 50 MSAs. Cleveland and Detroit's populations are actually declining. Cincy, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, are all barely growing.

Yeah, but OKC is dramatically behind a lot of these cities. It would have to sustain drastic growth over a long period to catch up. Unlikely.

[Teo9969]

Yeah, but OKC is dramatically behind a lot of these cities. It would have to sustain drastic growth over a long period to catch up. Unlikely.

I don't see a reason for OKC to slow it's growth. Unless American energy companies just absolutely tank, OKC doesn't appear to be growing on a bubble. It's growing in concert with the rest of the large Texas cities. The only other areas growing quicker are the NC cities in the Piedmont Atlantic, Denver, and DC.

And OKC easily has the biggest negative national reputation to overcome of all those cities.

San Antonio may get an NFL team before OKC, but I'd think the Texans/Cowboys would fight that harder than an OKC market. I'm not yet convinced that Cleveland and Cincinnati will both hold onto their 2M population for the next 30 years, let alone their NFL teams.

[dankrutka]

I don't see a reason for OKC to slow it's growth. Unless American energy companies just absolutely tank, OKC doesn't appear to be growing on a bubble. It's growing in concert with the rest of the large Texas cities. The only other areas growing quicker are the NC cities in the Piedmont Atlantic, Denver, and DC.

And OKC easily has the biggest negative national reputation to overcome of all those cities.

San Antonio may get an NFL team before OKC, but I'd think the Texans/Cowboys would fight that harder than an OKC market. I'm not yet convinced that Cleveland and Cincinnati will both hold onto their 2M population for the next 30 years, let alone their NFL teams.

The energy market is volatile. There's no way to no whether it will hold up. Heck, it's possible that both Chesapeake and Sandridge could be gone within a few years. Both are on shaky grounds. How would that effect the local economy? I hope OKC continues to grow, but you can never count on these things. Unfortunately, OKC still has a ways to go to compare to most major cities and it lost momentum it could be hard to regain because of the current disadvantages.

[Hawk405359]

I don't see a reason for OKC to slow it's growth. Unless American energy companies just absolutely tank, OKC doesn't appear to be growing on a bubble. It's growing in concert with the rest of the large Texas cities. The only other areas growing quicker are the NC cities in the Piedmont Atlantic, Denver, and DC.

And OKC easily has the biggest negative national reputation to overcome of all those cities.

San Antonio may get an NFL team before OKC, but I'd think the Texans/Cowboys would fight that harder than an OKC market. I'm not yet convinced that Cleveland and Cincinnati will both hold onto their 2M population for the next 30 years, let alone their NFL teams.

The energy market has boomed and burst in the past, there's no reason to really believe that it'd be impossible for that to happen now. Every market is volatile, so it's always going to be a huge risk for the economy of a city to be so heavily dependent on one market.

[Bunty]

OKC is not a viable market for a second pro team. There's been a ton of research done on this and a city needs about a million people (OKC may actually need a little more because the average salary is so much lower than in other major cities) for every pro team. OKC is just big enough to support one pro team. Getting a second one would not work long term. This discussion will be relevant again once OKC is over 2 million people in the metro...

So build the NFL stadium between Oklahoma City and Tulsa to get Tulsa involved and get your over 2 million people that way. Of course, the billion dollar question is: are very many people going to be willing to drive 50 - 75 miles, or more, to a stadium?

[Snowman]

So build the NFL stadium between Oklahoma City and Tulsa to get Tulsa involved and get your over 2 million people that way. Of course, the billion dollar question is: are very many people going to be willing to drive 50 - 75 miles, or more, to a stadium?

While I am sure Stroud would be all for it, it would probably be more feasible to build it in Tulsa than halfway between.

[progressiveboy]

While I am sure Stroud would be all for it, it would probably be more feasible to build it in Tulsa than halfway between.

Why do you feel it would be more feasible to build in Tulsa? I think Stroud would be a great location and get support for the NFL from both major metropolitian areas in the State. Tulsa alone could not support a team, OKC, maybe?