Airport expansion news?

[metro]

Yes, but we're forgetting two advances that the world did not see 40 or even 10 years ago. Huge huge advances in nanotechnology and the internet, neither alive back in the 60's and 70's boom. I guess some could argue the internet was technically "invented" in the 70's although it was nothing even close to what it is now or in the late 90's.

We already have tomorrow's technology, we're just still learning it, figuring it out, and perfecting it. They say by the year 2012 that human knowledge will double every year due to huge advancements in science and biomedical.

[OUman]

If ABQ has a master plan that goes 100 years into the future, that's absurd. Sure, I agree it's a plan and only a plan until it's implemented, but it doesn't make sense to plan that far into the future.

Traffic counts between different airports doesn't matter. I used to do that same thing, comparing traffic counts of OKC with those of AUS (back in the late 90's), and guess what, it was completely wrong to do that. Traffic is wholly determined by demographics and the number of businesses in your city that use the airport and how much they use the airport. Just because ABQ has similar traffic figures doesn't at all mean that OKC should also have a masterplan that includes a second terminal.

Also, I've said this before, but the current design of the new terminal allows for plenty of expansion/more gates etc then we'll ever need atleast 20 years from now. Even after the East Concourse is built, there's still room for more expansion, no need for a second terminal. Terminals are designed to accomodate growth well into the future, which also reduces the cost of expansion (new terminals cost a lot more than just adding on to an existing terminal).

[Pete]

OUman, other than the East Concourse -- which would add about 10-12 gates -- how else could the existing terminal be expanded?

I suppose they could elongate either or both concourses but I'm curious if that was considered in the design and/or where the other expansion would come.

[OUman]

The east concourse will add only eight gates. That could be expanded more, and after that, another concourse could perhaps be added pointing south from the central terminal. I don't know the master plan for OKC, but usually, airports make the most use of space to expand existing terminals before considering new terminals. A southward facing concourse is easily possible at OKC since you have all that open ramp space south of the main terminal, and would allow for more gates. I know a few airports around the country opened new concourses like that as the need arose, e.g. Milwaukee General Mitchell Airport expanded its terminal like that.

OUman

[Pete]

I personally don't feel confident that the current constuction allows from more than the as-planned East Concourse.

Yes, lots of things *could* be done, but that's much different that planning for growth as part of what they are doing now.

[OUman]

Like I said, terminals are designed to alow for more expansion, I don't see any reason that this design won't allow that. Designers usually have tricks up their sleeves when it comes to expanding terminals. Take Philadelphia International's Concourse D. They added a rectangular addition to the existing concourse which added 5-6 more gates. Anyway, we really don't need to worry about new concourses etc until 2012 atleast, especially now that we'll have three empty gates once DL/DL Conn move to their new gates. And then eight more gates coming with the remaining concourse.

OUman

[brianinok]

If in fact OKC and ABQ have similar traffic counts, why such a huge discrepancy in cities served non-stop on Southwest Airlines?

From OKC:
Dallas Love
Houston Hobby
Phoenix
Las Vegas
Kansas City
St. Louis

From ABQ:
Dallas Love
Houston Hobby
Phoenix
Las Vegas
Kansas City
St. Louis
Amarillo
Lubbock
Midland/Odessa
El Paso
Tuscon
San Diego
Los Angeles LAX
Oakland
Portland
Seattle/Tacoma
Salt Lake City
Chicago Midway
Tampa Bay
Orlando
Baltimore/Washington

[venture]

Southwest hasn't cared to expand OKC in years. They are doing play the market share game out east for awhile and of course moan and complain about the Love Field issue. Their newest route...4 times a day on Detroit-Baltimore. Big Deal? Airtran and Northwest already fly it several times a day.

Comparing each airline...

American
ABQ - Chicago and Dallas
OKC - Chicago, Dallas, and St. Louis

Continental
ABQ - Houston
OKC - Houston and Newark

Delta
ABQ - Atlanta, Cincinnati, and Salt Lake City
OKC - Atlanta, Cincinnati, Orlando, and SLC

Frontier
ABQ - Denver
OKC - Denver

Great Lakes
ABQ - Silver City and Clovis
OKC - None

Mesa Airlines
ABQ - Colorado Springs, Hobbs, Clovis, Carlsbad, Roswell, Farmington, Silver City, and Gallup.
OKC - None

Northwest
ABQ - Minneapolis
OKC - Detroit, Memphis, and Minneapolis

Southwest
ABQ - Dallas, Phoenix, El Paso, Lubbock, Midland, Baltimore, Portland, Seattle, SLC, Las Vegas, LAX, St. Louis, Chicago, Orlando, San Diego, Oakland, Houston, Kansas City, Amarillo, Tucson, and Tampa.
OKC - Dallas, Phoenix, Houston, St. Louis, Kansas City, and Las Vegas.

United
ABQ - Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Antonio, and Chicago.
OKC - Denver, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Antonio, and New Orleans.

US Airways
ABQ - Phoenix and Las Vegas
OKC - Phoenix and Las Vegas

I didn't include anything with charter airlines as those vary year round. Most of the old Southwest network in ABQ is meant to allow a lot of through traffic to do the old one-stop direct flight game. However, when you have the majority of market share you can do what you want.

OKC has a good mix, but there are some opportunities. I would like to see more regional air service, like ABQ, to connect the state through OKC. Right now Ponca City and Enid have air service that goes to Denver. Why not attempt to connect the state through OKC? I'm not say a ton of flights...but cities like Woodward and those in the Southeast, that are away from any major highway network - it takes nearly 3 hours to get to. The other market of course is connecting the rest of the major business centers to OKC...which is slowly being done.

One thing to watch is the Love Field agreement that will open the door for Southwest to fly anywhere, but also reduce gates. We may very well take the hit here.

[Patrick]

Actually the reason the new airport was reconfigured and the old airport demolished was to allow for a more expandable structure. The west and east concourses can be expanded further west and east respectively, and north and south concourses can be interspersed between each one.

Albuquerque's plan is really only for 25 years, but they're looking at all options.

[jbrown84]

I see no reason why another concourse could not be built perpandicular to the current terminal as the need arises. Like this:

l
)--
l

[Patrick]

I see no reason why another concourse could not be built perpandicular to the current terminal as the need arises. Like this:

l
)--
l

The existing structure is very expandable, allowing a structure like this

l

l
-----------
l
l
) ----------
l
l
-------------
l
l

Etc.

Existing structure is in bold blue.

[Pete]

Patrick, where did you read that such expansion was considered in the current redevelopment?

[metro]

Patrick,

I wrote Karen again regarding the maintenance issues and she said:

[I]xxxxxx, We are trying to address some of the janitorial issues you have described. As far as the carpet stains, the janitorial staff has tried repeatedly to get them out. We actually had the carpet vendor out last week to discuss some alternatives for getting out the stains. Hopefully, progress will be made on that front.
Regarding the lights, our maintenance manager discussed the issue with janitorial, so that should be taken care of soon.
KarenI]

[Pete]

Considering Karen is the Marketing Director from the airport, you think she could slip in "thanks for your concern", "we appreciate you bringing this to our attention", etc.

Instead, the tone of her communication -- even on the website -- is like she's being put out by having to communicate with others.

She certainly does not seem to be a good fit for that job.

[metro]

No kidding. Bad PR for sure. What if I was a CEO from out of state looking to relocate. I realize janitorial issues are not her concern but in my email, I made sure to tell her I realize these are not areas of her expertise but perhaps she could pass them along to the maintenance crew and have someone contact me. Instead her responses are always on the defense.

[HOT ROD]

Maybe with our continued efforts of "doing her job" by informing her of the airport's this and that, she will eventually get the message and get better at it herself.

Its sort of like the lazy teenager syndrome: sure he works at McDonalds and at first half-assed makes burgers, but that's because the boss just stuck him there and said - make burgers. Now, take that same teenager (Karen) and have the boss (us) work with her on the issues/problems we have with her and her burgers, she'll improve to satisfy us - initially, then finally - she'll improve to satisfy herself.

Anyways, that's my food for thought. It's surprising that we have this analogy for the Major Airport Marketing Director of a MAJOR US CITY - but then again, it might be pretty relevant given the emails then her "immediate" correction.

[HOT ROD]

As for the ABQ-OKC issues raised above, I have some trouble with some of Venture's argument (or was it OUMan). No offense.

I mean, he mentioned that ABQ has a different clientel than OKC and that airports cator to the business community - what they demand. Well, I'd not be the first one to disagree in the first that ABQ has a bigger and better/more affluent business community than OKC. OKC is much more of a business centre in the world than ABQ.

What holds OKC back is 1) having multiple airports in the state to compete with and 2) lackluster regional business interests.

I love to read travel sites like TripAdvisor (yeah, Im sort of an OKC booster) to find all of the people traveling to the city for business. If only we could get the hospitality industry and hoteliers in OKC to visit those sites - to see what is being said about them/their service, I think we could drastically and immediately improve the image of OKC further - plus have return visits from those travelers, as all of them seem to agree that OKC has many attractions and is worth the visit/business but the hotels are dodgy and inconsistent.

Nevertheless, ABQ does not have a Tulsa International (which also gets PAX from Kansas, Missouri, and Arkansas by the way) and Lawton to compete with. Nor does it have a Denver to Ponca City flight scenario with its only other major city in the state, Santa Fe. In fact, Santa Fe pax are routed through ABQ (then most drive up).

Just look at the skylines of the two cities and you should agree that OKC has a much more robust business community. So we wont even go there.

Now, the other thing that ABQ has going for it is Tourism. In fact, I would bet that over 75% of its traffic is tourism based whereas the same figure would be business travel here. With that argument, why would airlines fly to OKC in smaller planes only to have pax bumped and passed up to/from the city?? These are business pax, who would gladly pay for a first or business class ticket if they could in order to catch a same day flight pair DTW-OKC for example. Why is the airline assuming OKC would only have transient traffic on the route, thus using only a single medium sized regional jet for the route (never an upgrade to mainliner on heavy travel days)?? And the travel hours not very conducive for business conducted in either city on a same day trip itenerary (sp).

I question whether the proper analysis of OKC is being done, especially (as others have noted) that you have other routes that sit more empty on larger planes just so airlines can route them through their hubs. I mean, couldnt OKC be "guaranteed" a 737-700 (smallest of the fuel efficient next gen 737s) or A319 on routes to business centres like Chicago, Los Angeles, and Denver? The pax numbers are there? and those are hub cities - so they could even do a Tulsa to OKC to Los Angeles scenario with a 757. ..

I know they do creative routings like this with Portland and Seattle, why not here? Sure those airports are much bigger and business communities are as well. But once you factor per capita, it just about evens out - yet they'll use a large aircraft (767) on that routing (PDX-SEA-DTW for example) where the plane is 20% full out of PDX then only 60% full out of SEA (as most of the PDXers got off in SEA) and not even do a small efficient mainliner for a say, ,, TUL-OKC-SFO route??

Im sure we'd have the pax between the two cities, plus you'd open up no less than 3 city pairs (OKC-TUL, OKC-SFO, TUL-SFO).

And, what about using OKC as the focal point of the state (not to mention region)? How come there is NO airline that offers nonstop service to Wichita, even though you and I all know the amount of people from up there that come here for business (and lately, pleasure)? Yet not one airline, "i'd expect United to come in with its regional network with at least one route ICT-OKC-DEN" on a CRJ800. .. That would open up all three markets (esp ICT) and give pax more options, not to mention get people out of their cars (pathetic).

Anyways, I wish the cost of jet fuel were not so high (and the capital costs of operating an airliner/insuring it) were not as expensive, as I'd love to follow Harmony Airlines (out of Vancouver) example and open a privately owned limited service airline out of OKC with key nonstops. Post on Harmony from SSP *scroll to the post from Phesto #167.

This airport (and city) has so much potential. Maybe not DFW but nonetheless, it has more potential than the powers-that-be give it. And I dont care what the "statutes of limitations" or "diminishing margins of utility" arguments the airport trust gives us, We had a plan to rebuild the airport with an East and West concourse with Central Terminal in a wing configuration. Instead, we got a 'wounded bird' and the same old people who aren't being held accountable!!! Heck, couldn't we have kept the original config - yet done the "airness" improvements to it?? We would have the SAME space as we have now (less than 350K sq ft) yet we'd have no less than 17 available gates spaced OUT!!!

I too flew into OKC recently and noticed the CRAMMED effect. Why not utilize the space and today's dollars!!! and build the dang East Concourse: leasing out gates as they are needed. Patrick's idea makes total sense, instead of cramming into the West - put United in the East and lower the gate fees so Frontier can get its own gate instead of sharing it.

[OUman]

Hot Rod, good points. I'll try to explain from my perspective (and Venture or anyone else can correct me) on each of your points:

-> OKC competes with only two other airports in the state for pax traffic-TUL and LAW. Traffic to/from Ponca City and Enid is a fraction of the total traffic going in/out of the state. That being said, OKC pulls in traffic from a large area, which is not densely populated. Before the GM plant was closed, NW Airlink Mesaba had two dailies with RJ 85's. After the closing, I bet business traffic fell on the route and since the RJ 85's are being dumped out of Mesaba's fleet, you now have a daily CRJ 200. If the 85's were still around, they might still be flying once daily between OKC and DTW.

-> Airlines don't assume anything. They can overlook traffic figures as I think has happened in the case of OKC, but they'll never assume anything. An airline operating in the U.S. has to look at at least 100+ cities. In the end, it will add service where the yield looks to be the greatest. And just recently, at-risk flying has been started by Trans States and some other commuter lines, so there's more oppurtunity there, but right now, airlines are trying to maximize load factors, if they can get 95% load factors with just one flight a day, they're gonna do it.

-> No airport can be "guaranteed" any type of aircraft on any particular route. Airlines were forced to do that back in the days of regulations, but of course, fares were too high. Deregulation brought about a big change, and that's why we see so many people travelling today. Airlines look carefully at the market, then decide what aircaft is suitable depending on availability.

-> Skylines have nothing to do with air service or economy. Austin's skyline isn't all that majestic or anything, yet last year it had 7.6 million passengers that used the airport there. Business traffic really makes a difference! Yet, the entire metropolitan population of Austin is similar to that of OKC's.

-> TUL-OKC-LAX would do well if Tulsa passengers willingly flew to Oklahoma City first, sat in the plane for 45 minutes then went on to LAX. But even then, a 757-200 probably wouldn't be profitable anyway. Besides, people like nonstops, and Tulsa passengers would like the same. Same goes for TUL-OKC-SFO. Multi-stop flights have gradually been phased out over the last 10-15 years, people want more and more nonstops. Which is also partly the reason for the explosion in RJ service.

-> Last I checked, there are no 767's between PDX and SEA, the largest aircraft on that route was a 757-200 by NW. PDX-SEA is a high-density route, but it mainly gets 737's and smaller RJ's/turboprops from Alaska and Horizon. Besides, with the conditon the industry is in thes days, you can bet that if a certain aircraft is going out even a little empty, the aircraft will definitely be downgraded, or the flight cut out completely if there's no smaller aircraft available.

-> Again, we didn't get a "wounded bird." Building a concourse and letting it idle and empty isn't good. The east concourse will be built as and when it's needed. Airports don't build concourses just because the plan called for it-the market changes and airports have to respond to those changes. You can't build a concourse/terminal and let it idle. Besides, I don't know where you heard Frontier Jet Express and United are sharing gates, because they're not, and secondly, sharing gates is much more common than you think. Frontier Jet Express now has its own gate, it was sharing it with Allegiant, which is now out of the market. And there's nothing wrong with sharing gates, if a gate is only handling a few flights a day, airlines will often share gates. It has nothing to do with fees, in fact, OKC has one of the lowest gate fees around. Also, United and United Express have two gates all to themselves. They don't need any more gates for just 8-10 flights a day, when just one can handle 8 flights a day at least. The way OKC is being expanded right now, it's a pretty good track to take.

-> Have the original layout? No way, I'd much prefer the way it is now, the new terminal is so much better than the old one. Besides, how would you widen the old concourses while keeping pax and aircraft ops going? Can't be done.

[Pete]

They finally added a few new construction pictures to the website. It says "late fall" completion (which represents yet anothe significant delay) and from the looks of things they still have a long way to go:

[metro]

Anybody read the Q&A article in the Sunday Oklahoman with Mark Kranenburg, what a joke! The article basically provided us no new information and made him look good for what Luther Trent basically accomplished.

[Pete]

I posted it on this thread:

http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...ities-cut.html


Kranenburg may turn out to be good, but I was worried when he was hired and I've seen/read nothing that has changed my opinion.

I'd feel much better with someone with a proven background of growing commerical aviation and that isn't a crony of the old guard at the airport trust.

[metro]

Airport director thinks city coming into its own

By Julie Bisbee
Mark Kranenburg's return to Oklahoma City has been sort of a homecoming. After leaving Oklahoma City for a job in southern California, Kranenburg returned to work for a man who offered him his first job in civil aviation.
Kranenburg, director of airports for the city of Oklahoma City, took over Luther Trent's job when Trent retired last year. Since November, Kranenburg has navigated the airport through the last stages of a massive construction project and has begun the process of developing the area surrounding the airport.

While he admits he rarely has time to read anything but e-mails, it hasn't been all work. An avid fisherman, Kranenburg loves to travel. But as the airport keeps him busy, he's likely to be fishing in the creek behind his house in south Oklahoma City.

"I probably need to develop more hobbies," he said jokingly.

His dogs, Abby and Maizie, might not agree. They're getting the rest of his attention.

"I don't have any kids at home. I just have a couple of schnauzer puppies," Kranenburg said. "It's just me and my wife and we kind of dote on them."

Kranenburg recently discussed his career and goals for the airport with The Oklahoman. The following is an edited transcript.

You worked for Oklahoma City before becoming director of airports here last fall. Tell me a little bit about your background.

I've been in aviation all my life. I've been an air traffic controller in the Air Force and an air traffic controller with the FAA. When I got out of the military I elected to use the degree in aviation management and pursue a career in it. I was hired in Oklahoma City in 1993. I was promoted up to general aviation manager, running Wiley Post and Clarence Page airport for seven years. In 2002, I relocated to southern California to be the assistant director for the county of San Bernadino, helping to run the six-county airport system. After two and a half years I applied for a job that opened up at the city of Riverside. Riverside is a corporate reliever airport and I had a chance to run my own shop. When this job came open, I thought it was a good opportunity to come back.

Where were you stationed with the Air Force? What was that like?

I was stationed at Vance Air Force Base doing air traffic control. I was also at Dover Air Force Base (in Delaware). I also spent three years at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey. I was actually there when we were launching strike packages during the First Gulf War. That was a really interesting time.

You said you were an air traffic controller for the FAA. Did you have to take a pay cut to leave?

I was caught up in the strike in 1981 and was only in for about a year and a half. I just got caught up in that strike and was actually terminated by President Reagan. So I went back into the military as an air traffic controller and completed my degree.

When you came here in November, what were some of the things that seemed more challenging than others?

By 2005, the airport construction was pretty much under control. We only had a few issues that we were working out with the engineer and contractor to try to resolve. We are scheduled to be completed by September of this year. We want to make sure we come in on time.

Next, we want to try to see what we can do to maximize development at the airport, both aviation and non-aviation. We have over 8,000 acres, about 2,000 is vacant. The other thing that we are focusing on would be air service. We're trying to target airlines that we can go visit, and so we can try to show some people that the numbers are there in certain markets. We will still want to try to seek nonstop service to certain cities.

How do you convince airlines in the middle of bankruptcy or battling high fuel prices that its in their best interest to add another route?

They want to be profitable and Oklahoma City is growing. That's one of the things that I saw after being gone. I know it like the back of my hand, and it had changed over night. Now people are even living downtown. Coming from California, I can tell you that traffic is not an issue. You have clean air, you have quality of life issues. The airport is now doing its fair share. The synergy is just great. It's often the first thing people see when they come into the city. We are really a city that's coming into our own. It's quite a renaissance, and I think the 'Okie' is finally getting taken out of the Oklahoma City.

[Pete]

We are scheduled to be completed by September of this year. We want to make sure we come in on time.

It's now almost October and I assume the airport construction is still not complete.

Has anybody been by there lately to offer an update?

Of course, their website is no help and hasn't been updated since the last time we all complained about it.

[BDP]

I was there last weekend. For the most part it's done. There is less going on at this point than in most airports you go to these says. There seems to be some loose ends here and there, but nothing that is affecting traffic flow too much. Now, I believe they were supposed to open another security check point. I did not see that.

[OUman]

The second security checkpoint will be opening soon, from the photos posted recently on the website, it's coming along (the area is likely sealed off from the public, which is why you didn't see it). That along with three new gates for DL and DL Conn, a new gift shop and the renovated/expanded baggage claim will be opening before the year's end. I'm wondering though whether this includes the expansion to the Mahogany Lounge I had read in this forum.