Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[1972ford]

Now would be a good opportunity to excavate some of the lake to increase its capacity once rain does finally fill it. I would not expect in amount necessary to make a difference until late march. All we can hope for in the meantime is a really good snowy winter and a fast thaw to fill the lakes.

[RadicalModerate]

Plus it would provide an opportunity to provide a jobs program writing citations for leaving muddy tire tracks where muddy tire tracks have never gone before . . . =)
(well . . . wouldn't it?)

[Snowman]

Now would be a good opportunity to excavate some of the lake to increase its capacity once rain does finally fill it. I would not expect in amount necessary to make a difference until late march. All we can hope for in the meantime is a really good snowy winter and a fast thaw to fill the lakes.

It would also be a good time to do rehabilitation on sections of the ramps into the lake that are normally inaccesable

[MadMonk]

Now would be a good opportunity to excavate some of the lake to increase its capacity once rain does finally fill it. I would not expect in amount necessary to make a difference until late march. All we can hope for in the meantime is a really good snowy winter and a fast thaw to fill the lakes.

Good idea! I bet that dirt would make for some pretty fertile mix-in / top soil.

[TechArch]

Or the city could place water restrictions on residents. We still have not recovered from last year's drought and this year is below average as well.

[BoulderSooner]

Or the city could place water restrictions on residents. We still have not recovered from last year's drought and this year is below average as well.

okc doesn't have a water issue .. our water trust has done a wonderful job to provide for OKC's future water needs

[Dubya61]

okc doesn't have a water issue .. our water trust has done a wonderful job to provide for OKC's future water needs

Maybe OKC doesn't have a water issue, but one of it's lakes clearly does.

[kevinpate]

Maybe OKC doesn't have a water issue, but one of it's lakes clearly does.

more than one, if memory serves.

[Bill Robertson]

Maybe OKC doesn't have a water issue, but one of it's lakes clearly does.

Actually all three lakes, Hefner, Overholser and Draper are very low. But this is only an issue as far as recreation and aesthetics are concerned. The capacity as far as usable water is not even near being dangerously low. I know that much of what's left of Hefner is still 50 to 70 feet deep based on depth at normal elevation. I believe that's the case with Draper also. The lakes are for water storage. Recreation is a side benefit when the water is there. Those of us that keep boats on the city lakes sign a form every spring that states that we understand that the lake may or may not be usable for boating. Again, the city can't make it rain.

[Achilleslastand]

Im suprised that Hefners maximum depth is about the same as Eufaula's. I always thought Eufaula was much much deeper.

[Dale Birchett]

I'm no inside expert on the city water supply system but I have heard the following:

The flow down the Canadian to Canton is reduced and I believe there is a dispute with Texas over their use of the water but it also may be drought related because Lake Meridith , north of Amarillo has had very little water in it for years;

Once the water gets to Canton it is "turbid" primarily from upstream agricultural run-off;

The agreement with the City of Canton recognizes the economic impact of the lake as a recreation area and makes allowances for protecting this income source;

It is correct that the dry riverbed from Canton to OKC can absorb as much as 80% of a water release;

The Water Trust doesn't like to use Canton Lake water for the OKC water supply because the turbidity makes the water more expensive to purify which leads to higher water costs for system users;

The pollutants in the water settle into the lake beds making dredging a dicey proposition;

There are plans to: add a second pipeline from Lake Atoka to Draper Lake, build a 'sister' lake to Lake Draper on the west side, & build a pipeline from Draper to Lake Hefner;

While Hefner is primarily a water supply lake, in the early 1940's salesmen went door-to-door in OKC selling bonds to finance the lake envisioned by the late Mayor (Judge) Robert Hefner who said he wanted to build a lake to answer the future water supply needs of OKC and to provide a recreational area for our boys fighting in Europe and the Pacific so when they came home they would have a great park to take their families to for picnics! (I'm paraphrasing because I don't have my copy of his autobiography with me.)

Is the Oklahoma River impounding water that could have been used in Hefner and Overholser? Probably.

Would the smart move have been to run the Draper to Overholser/Hefner pipeline from Draper to the Canadian/Oklahoma river then up the river to Overholser BEFORE building the string of pearls dams? Seems that way to me.

But let's face it, Oklahoma is in infrastructure cheap mode right now, as long as it's not MAPS, and these things cost big money. So the choice is with the consumer, to keep the rates constant you can reduce water usage and let the lakes fill or keep the current utilization rate and have low lake levels. Somehow I think the golf courses and lawns are going to win out over the recreational water users.

[LandRunOkie]

A lot of good info there.
Here are some of the articles I've read on this:
Water issues are complex and easy answers few | Tulsa World addresses water battle with Texas

Some long form coverage from This Land (3 parts)
Troubled Waters, Part 1 | This Land Press
The Thirst Games | This Land Press

Donald Faulkner sees all this as downright disingenuous. “They’ve asked the Corps of Engineers to release 30,000 acre feet of water from Canton Lake to fill up this river in Oklahoma City, just so they can row boats on it,” he declares. “How can they say it’s okay for them to have nonconsumptive use of their water, but it’s not okay for us?”

Troubled Waters III: Balancing Act | This Land Press

Good news from newsok:
Second straight summer of drought hurts Oklahoma City reservoirs | NewsOK.com

Various projects to expand Oklahoma City's capacity to draw raw water from other parts of the state and to pump out more drinking water are under way. The city is expected to spend nearly half a billion dollars in the next five years on improving its water supply infrastructure.

Canton Lake to be lowered | Outdoors This newsok article claims 30,000 acre-feet of water went to Overholser and Hefner, not the Oklahoma River. Were there two purchases or is Ed Godfrey wrong or is Faulkner from the This Land article wrong? There is a lot of confusion on this issue..

[Snowman]

Canton Lake to be lowered | Outdoors This newsok article claims 30,000 acre-feet of water went to Overholser and Hefner, not the Oklahoma River. Were there two purchases or is Ed Godfrey wrong or is Faulkner from the This Land article wrong? There is a lot of confusion on this issue..

Every release from Canton I have followed, which I think is all them over the last two years, has been to fill Overholser and Hefner. It sounds like This Land Press is not exactly impartial, they are likely against OKC getting the water rights to Lake Sardis specifically or larger cities expanding their water supplies in this manor in general, from the way they want negotiations to happen and uses they favor for the Sardis.

Granted though if it goes into Overholser it will be used by the city, pass through the river eventually or evaporate; so some would have ended up in the river if they want to claim that. There has been at least one releases from Overholser to the river before a large event expressly for that, though that would have only been a small percentage from a prior release at Canton if any of it could be tracked back to a release from Canton. Generally though they just let the river basins fill as rainwater comes in and shifted some from the upper river basin to the boathouse basin if it required more for an event.

[jn1780]

I'm no inside expert on the city water supply system but I have heard the following:

The flow down the Canadian to Canton is reduced and I believe there is a dispute with Texas over their use of the water but it also may be drought related because Lake Meridith , north of Amarillo has had very little water in it for years;

Once the water gets to Canton it is "turbid" primarily from upstream agricultural run-off;

The agreement with the City of Canton recognizes the economic impact of the lake as a recreation area and makes allowances for protecting this income source;

It is correct that the dry riverbed from Canton to OKC can absorb as much as 80% of a water release;

The Water Trust doesn't like to use Canton Lake water for the OKC water supply because the turbidity makes the water more expensive to purify which leads to higher water costs for system users;

The pollutants in the water settle into the lake beds making dredging a dicey proposition;

There are plans to: add a second pipeline from Lake Atoka to Draper Lake, build a 'sister' lake to Lake Draper on the west side, & build a pipeline from Draper to Lake Hefner;

While Hefner is primarily a water supply lake, in the early 1940's salesmen went door-to-door in OKC selling bonds to finance the lake envisioned by the late Mayor (Judge) Robert Hefner who said he wanted to build a lake to answer the future water supply needs of OKC and to provide a recreational area for our boys fighting in Europe and the Pacific so when they came home they would have a great park to take their families to for picnics! (I'm paraphrasing because I don't have my copy of his autobiography with me.)

Is the Oklahoma River impounding water that could have been used in Hefner and Overholser? Probably.

Would the smart move have been to run the Draper to Overholser/Hefner pipeline from Draper to the Canadian/Oklahoma river then up the river to Overholser BEFORE building the string of pearls dams? Seems that way to me.

But let's face it, Oklahoma is in infrastructure cheap mode right now, as long as it's not MAPS, and these things cost big money. So the choice is with the consumer, to keep the rates constant you can reduce water usage and let the lakes fill or keep the current utilization rate and have low lake levels. Somehow I think the golf courses and lawns are going to win out over the recreational water users.

The Oklahoma River is downstream from Hefner and Draper so it has very little to do with these two lakes water levels. Even if it was upstream it would still have little effect since the volume of water it holds is nothing compared to these lakes. Of course, initially filling up the Oklahoma River when a dam breaks wastes a lot of water through evaporation and absorbition.

[HewenttoJared]

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/product...on_drought.gif
Not changing soon. The city needs a longterm water plan.

[LandRunOkie]

Every release from Canton I have followed, which I think is all them over the last two years, has been to fill Overholser and Hefner. It sounds like This Land Press is not exactly impartial, they are likely against OKC getting the water rights to Lake Sardis specifically or larger cities expanding their water supplies in this manor in general...

They are basically an online magazine, so they are allowed to have their own perspective. Their work on this was interesting and informative.

The Oklahoma River is downstream from Hefner and Draper so it has very little to do with these two lakes water levels. Even if it was upstream it would still have little effect since the volume of water it holds is nothing compared to these lakes.

And those This Land articles claim Sardis is downstream from OKC, which would make it necessary to build a massive uphill pumping operation to get their water. Plus Overholser is the lake that is used to fill the Oklahoma River. Just read the articles.

Of course, initially filling up the Oklahoma River when a dam breaks wastes a lot of water through evaporation and absorbition.

A dam just broke this summer.

[OKCTalker]

Dale Birchett knows what he's talking about - he's head of Friends of Lake Hefner (and also a good airplane mechanic to boot).

[BoulderSooner]

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/product...on_drought.gif
Not changing soon. The city needs a longterm water plan.

OKC is in a GREAT water position longterm .. our water utilities trust has done a wonderful job protecting out future

[LandRunOkie]

There are plans to: add a second pipeline from Lake Atoka to Draper Lake, build a 'sister' lake to Lake Draper on the west side, & build a pipeline from Draper to Lake Hefner...

Is the Oklahoma River impounding water that could have been used in Hefner and Overholser? Probably. ...

Would the smart move have been to run the Draper to Overholser/Hefner pipeline from Draper to the Canadian/Oklahoma river then up the river to Overholser BEFORE building the string of pearls dams? Seems that way to me.

These plans may be what the city is talking about when Ragan says the city will spend approx $500 million in the next 5 years on water. But the city's water demands will become increasingly taxing to the environment, as Lake Atoka is lower than us elevation wise and importing water from the SE part of the state will require massive pumping and environmental disruption. It may be wiser to increase conservation and raise water rates in the long run.

[Snowman]

... And those This Land articles claim Sardis is downstream from OKC, which would make it necessary to build a massive uphill pumping operation to get their water. ...

Sardis is at a lower elevation than OKC which requires pumping their was no stream connecting them, both the existing pipeline and the new one are artificial.

These plans may be what the city is talking about when Ragan says the city will spend approx $500 million in the next 5 years on water. But the city's water demands will become increasingly taxing to the environment, as Lake Atoka is lower than us elevation wise and importing water from the SE part of the state will require massive pumping and environmental disruption. It may be wiser to increase conservation and raise water rates in the long run.

Outside of banning agriculture (vast majority of use) and watering lawns all the conservation is a drop in the bucket. Atoka has been at a lower elevation than us since we built the pipeline to it decades ago, it is pretty cheap to move it up the pump stations verses the treatment process we use on cantons water, the 500 million is on building a second pipeline parallel that extends to lake Sardis. The environmental damage they are estimating insinuates we pull a move like LA did, however we have not done anything like that with Atoka, even through the worst of this drought it is still near capacity.

[BoulderSooner]

These plans may be what the city is talking about when Ragan says the city will spend approx $500 million in the next 5 years on water. But the city's water demands will become increasingly taxing to the environment, as Lake Atoka is lower than us elevation wise and importing water from the SE part of the state will require massive pumping and environmental disruption. It may be wiser to increase conservation and raise water rates in the long run.

your definition of "massive" i think would be different then most ... and the environmental disruption is way overstated

[bombermwc]

We're not exactlly in a water shortage....do you really remember much rationing in OKC this summer?

I do, however, feel that local is better. I don't understand why the city doesn't place more effort on the Draper expansion than all this crap with Canton. It seems a no brainer that if the water is closer to the source, and can be piped rather than exposed, less will be lost in the transfer. Not to mention the fact that you could actually put a water treatment facility at Draper at that point because there is so much water right there. That would even save the need to pipe it 15 miles across town.

And people wonder why the city keeps the SE sector...ha.

[Popsy]

Sardis Lake is close to Lake Atoka. OKC already has a line in place from Lake Atoka, so the Sardis line could tie into the existing Atoka line and avoid the expense of a direct line from OKC to Sardis.

[HewenttoJared]

OKC is in a GREAT water position longterm .. our water utilities trust has done a wonderful job protecting out future

Yea, as long as longterm(multi-decadal) rainfall projections are all wrong...

[BoulderSooner]

Yea, as long as longterm(multi-decadal) rainfall projections are all wrong...

umm no