600 W. Sheridan

[NWOKCGuy]

lol @ Spartan. That would certainly clear things up.

[circuitboard]

This looks like a McMansion in Frisco, GROSS.... nothing urban about this at all.

[onthestrip]

The builder is a home builder by trade. I wonder how many commercial structures he's done. The pitched roof is the most bothersome thing to me.

Also, why the heck does it need a residential-style garage? Is this also going to be a home?

Anytime a home builder tries to build a commercial building would have me worried.

And I agree with the out of place garage and pitched roof, doesn't belong.

[Buffalo Bill]

Aren't there any architectural requirements?

The Plans look as if they were drawn on a Big Chief tablet by an 8th grader in some sort of Industrial Arts class.

[HangryHippo]

Wasn't the guy that owns or works for this law firm a poster on this board at one time? I thought I remember said poster in the Mystery Tower thread talking about their leases not being renewed in the area... Perhaps he/she can weigh in on this?

[Urbanized]

The builder is a home builder by trade. I wonder how many commercial structures he's done. The pitched roof is the most bothersome thing to me.

Also, why the heck does it need a residential-style garage? Is this also going to be a home?

Yeah, the pitched roof is completely out of left field and not in keeping with the district. Don't see how that part could be approved unless someone is absolutely asleep at the wheel. As for the 3-story requirement, I would give that variance without thinking twice about it. I think that ordinance is wrong, in fact. It is too much of a blanket requirement that doesn't take neighborhood into account. Three stories would look totally out of place on that strip. Just like it would have on Classen as an Office Depot.

[OKCisOK4me]

It's like the Staybridge Suites, totally not compatible with urban design whatsoever. I hope whatever committee reviews this project will reject the design.

[soonerguru]

Gag.

[Bellaboo]

Aren't there any architectural requirements?

The Plans look as if they were drawn on a Big Chief tablet by an 8th grader in some sort of Industrial Arts class.

You are dating yourself...... I used one of those in grade school, and that was a long time ago.

[Teo9969]

From earlier posts in the thread, I would bet that the leases aren't being renewed because Devon needs more space for their employees and it's right by their campus.

As far as the proposal: So not only do they want a variation from the requirement, they want the variance so they can build *that* structure?

[Jeepnokc]

We appreciate those comments and opinions that have been constructive.

Keep in mind that before we designed this building, we spoke with the city and ensure that we followed the guidelines. The only guideline we have not followed is the three story minimum for which we have asked for a variance. We increased all of the window sizes to ensure the proper ratio of windows to brick and took out windows on the west side as apparently cannot have any windows there as we are building to lot lines in the front and sides. We intentionally placed the building all the way in the front to take up the entire lot line to fill in the space along sheridan. The parking lot and garage doors are placed to the south towards the alley and behind the building.

We are removing the garage door on Sheridan and are looking at changing that to a seperate retail or art space with its own storefront facing Sheridan. (this was the result of my attendance at the film exchange association meeting and listening to the discussion about the art walk and need for increased retail and art traffic)

I really do welcome (and respect) constructive comments instead of just attacks on my builder because he doesn't use CAD and does hand drawings or comments like "gag". Scott built my home and I chose him for the house for the same reason I asked him to do this building is that he puts out a good building with design details that I like that aren't reflected on the plans. That was our mistake in not doing a rendering to be submitted along with it. Scott spoke with the city before starting the design and has been doing his due diligence in conforming with the building requirements and code. Scott and I have spent numerous hours walking through the film exchange and looking at other buildings downtown before picking out brick colors and design details to break up the vast expanse of brick. We are using multiple color mixtures of brick and are incorporating black or dark granite into the design details to pick up on the design styles through the district. It is difficult to see on 2d drawings but the pillars between the windows going up are offset out from the other bricks there are some relief details to break up the brick expanse also.

I am bothered that some of my neighbors have some concerns and invite them to contact me by email at john@okdui.com or at 405-231-5600 to see if we can address their concerns. It is our intent to fit into the district and help contribute to the success of this area.

[warreng88]

We appreciate those comments and opinions that have been constructive.

Keep in mind that before we designed this building, we spoke with the city and ensure that we followed the guidelines. The only guideline we have not followed is the three story minimum for which we have asked for a variance. We increased all of the window sizes to ensure the proper ratio of windows to brick and took out windows on the west side as apparently cannot have any windows there as we are building to lot lines in the front and sides. We intentionally placed the building all the way in the front to take up the entire lot line to fill in the space along sheridan. The parking lot and garage doors are placed to the south towards the alley and behind the building.

We are removing the garage door on Sheridan and are looking at changing that to a seperate retail or art space with its own storefront facing Sheridan. (this was the result of my attendance at the film exchange association meeting and listening to the discussion about the art walk and need for increased retail and art traffic)

I really do welcome (and respect) constructive comments instead of just attacks on my builder because he doesn't use CAD and does hand drawings or comments like "gag". Scott built my home and I chose him for the house for the same reason I asked him to do this building is that he puts out a good building with design details that I like that aren't reflected on the plans. That was our mistake in not doing a rendering to be submitted along with it. Scott spoke with the city before starting the design and has been doing his due diligence in conforming with the building requirements and code. Scott and I have spent numerous hours walking through the film exchange and looking at other buildings downtown before picking out brick colors and design details to break up the vast expanse of brick. We are using multiple color mixtures of brick and are incorporating black or dark granite into the design details to pick up on the design styles through the district. It is difficult to see on 2d drawings but the pillars between the windows going up are offset out from the other bricks there are some relief details to break up the brick expanse also.

I am bothered that some of my neighbors have some concerns and invite them to contact me by email at john@okdui.com or at 405-231-5600 to see if we can address their concerns. It is our intent to fit into the district and help contribute to the success of this area.

John, I appreciate you coming on here and explaining your thought process on the building and appreciate new construction. I think the majority of the board would like to see the roofline done differently because that would fit in more with the buildings to the west of you, as well as the new school being built directly to your east. What is your hesitation on doing this?

[BoulderSooner]

thank you for the reasoned thoughts .. and your willingness to listen to the "neighborhood" .. i hope things work out for you to get a great new office and have a building that fits in great on film row ...

my biggest issue would be the roof ... as has been said earlier flat roofs are the "norm" in the area

[Bellaboo]

We appreciate those comments and opinions that have been constructive.

Keep in mind that before we designed this building, we spoke with the city and ensure that we followed the guidelines. The only guideline we have not followed is the three story minimum for which we have asked for a variance. We increased all of the window sizes to ensure the proper ratio of windows to brick and took out windows on the west side as apparently cannot have any windows there as we are building to lot lines in the front and sides. We intentionally placed the building all the way in the front to take up the entire lot line to fill in the space along sheridan. The parking lot and garage doors are placed to the south towards the alley and behind the building.

We are removing the garage door on Sheridan and are looking at changing that to a seperate retail or art space with its own storefront facing Sheridan. (this was the result of my attendance at the film exchange association meeting and listening to the discussion about the art walk and need for increased retail and art traffic)

I really do welcome (and respect) constructive comments instead of just attacks on my builder because he doesn't use CAD and does hand drawings or comments like "gag". Scott built my home and I chose him for the house for the same reason I asked him to do this building is that he puts out a good building with design details that I like that aren't reflected on the plans. That was our mistake in not doing a rendering to be submitted along with it. Scott spoke with the city before starting the design and has been doing his due diligence in conforming with the building requirements and code. Scott and I have spent numerous hours walking through the film exchange and looking at other buildings downtown before picking out brick colors and design details to break up the vast expanse of brick. We are using multiple color mixtures of brick and are incorporating black or dark granite into the design details to pick up on the design styles through the district. It is difficult to see on 2d drawings but the pillars between the windows going up are offset out from the other bricks there are some relief details to break up the brick expanse also.

I am bothered that some of my neighbors have some concerns and invite them to contact me by email at john@okdui.com or at 405-231-5600 to see if we can address their concerns. It is our intent to fit into the district and help contribute to the success of this area.

John,
We have a few know it all, obnoxious small minded belittling jerks on this board, just ignore them......most folks here are very good and professional. Your explainations about the bricks and removal of the garage door are valuable info...I believe the hangup for most is that the roofline does not fit. thanks for coming on board to explain, I'm sure your building will turn out great with the effort you are making to address some concerns.

[HangryHippo]

Jeepnokc, I applaud your willingness to address our concerns like this. I wish more people would follow your lead.

My only real concern with your proposal is the roofline. The pitched roof does little to blend in with the existing building inventory of the area. Other than that, I think Sid made some excellent points about what you could do if you built to 3 stories.

I wish you the best of luck with your move.

[Jeepnokc]

Thanks for feedback. For the couple of questions, i'll try and answer.

We bought this lot before the school was planned (or at least before I knew it would be here) and before the revitalization of the film exchange really started as far as redoing streetscapes, etc. Our intent all along has been for a law office. Our firm has several company cars that stay on the grounds at night which is the reason for the garage. the garage door on Sheridan was for ease but we agree that it took away from the design and wasn't necessary. Keep in mind that the property will be fenced in with wrought iron and brick with landscaping to shield the parking lot from view which means the garage doors in the rear will be shielded.

As much as I would like to build a 5 story building with retail on the first floor and residential above, it isn't financially feasible for us. (I would really like to buy the stage center or the dome and convert it to my office but that's not happening financially either) Buildings cost money and no one finances 100% of projects. I understand urban design but at some point...reality has to enter into the scene also. If at some point in the long term future this area develops more like the core CBD, then someone will buy out the current building owners and proceed with their plans probably similar to what Mr. Preftakes is doing. (and I have no idea what he is doing)

We looked at different roof designs and are still looking at it. The reason there is not a flat roof is simple and may irritate some people but it is simply that I do not like flat roofs. I think they are a maintenance nightmare and are one of the least efficient roof designs. I am the one that has to pay to fix, repair, replace the roof when problems arise. Every person I know that has had a flat roof tells me they would never do one again. I have had a couple of people with film row buildings or businesses tell me that their roofs leak. If the final design ends up with a hip roof, it will be the lowest pitch we can do to minimize noticeablity. No one is going to agree on every design element and have different opinions. (I personally hate stucco also but that seems to be a big trend now)

In looking at the variance, the elementary school is three stories but I believe that is the portion that is on the side of Walker. On the Dewey side next to my lot will be the gym which I believe is only two stories so there really is a nice stepdown from the elementary school to our building to the other adjacent one story buildings next to us. Makes much more since to have the transition go 3-2-2-1 or even 3-2-1 then 3-2-3-1 as far as height.

[Spartan]

Thanks for feedback. For the couple of questions, i'll try and answer.

We bought this lot before the school was planned (or at least before I knew it would be here) and before the revitalization of the film exchange really started as far as redoing streetscapes, etc. Our intent all along has been for a law office. Our firm has several company cars that stay on the grounds at night which is the reason for the garage. the garage door on Sheridan was for ease but we agree that it took away from the design and wasn't necessary. Keep in mind that the property will be fenced in with wrought iron and brick with landscaping to shield the parking lot from view which means the garage doors in the rear will be shielded.

As much as I would like to build a 5 story building with retail on the first floor and residential above, it isn't financially feasible for us. (I would really like to buy the stage center or the dome and convert it to my office but that's not happening financially either) Buildings cost money and no one finances 100% of projects. I understand urban design but at some point...reality has to enter into the scene also. If at some point in the long term future this area develops more like the core CBD, then someone will buy out the current building owners and proceed with their plans probably similar to what Mr. Preftakes is doing. (and I have no idea what he is doing)

We looked at different roof designs and are still looking at it. The reason there is not a flat roof is simple and may irritate some people but it is simply that I do not like flat roofs. I think they are a maintenance nightmare and are one of the least efficient roof designs. I am the one that has to pay to fix, repair, replace the roof when problems arise. Every person I know that has had a flat roof tells me they would never do one again. I have had a couple of people with film row buildings or businesses tell me that their roofs leak. If the final design ends up with a hip roof, it will be the lowest pitch we can do to minimize noticeablity. No one is going to agree on every design element and have different opinions. (I personally hate stucco also but that seems to be a big trend now)

In looking at the variance, the elementary school is three stories but I believe that is the portion that is on the side of Walker. On the Dewey side next to my lot will be the gym which I believe is only two stories so there really is a nice stepdown from the elementary school to our building to the other adjacent one story buildings next to us. Makes much more since to have the transition go 3-2-2-1 or even 3-2-1 then 3-2-3-1 as far as height.

This is an honest question, but why do you like Film Row..or downtown..if you don't like flat roofs? That is the epitome of suburban design which is the main problem here. I like others appreciate your proactive engagement with us though!

[soonerguru]

I appreciate jeep's seeming care for detail when it comes to bricks and materials -- and his willingness to engage here -- but the roof concept is ugly, detracts from the neighborhood, and should be denied.

[OKCisOK4me]

This is an honest question, but why do you like Film Row..or downtown..if you don't like flat roofs? That is the epitome of suburban design which is the main problem here. I like others appreciate your proactive engagement with us though!

Yes, it's all about historical preservation. You may be building anew but please consider the guidelines of every building around your property. How many sloped roofs do you see? If its going to be pitched, please make it very slight so that it runs to the alley portion of your building and can be sent into a guttering system. I think it would (if financially feasible) be awesome if you had a rooftop gathering place with greenspace on top, which would probably be a first on this side of town (other than what's at the Devon Tower complex). I hope your final decision is a combination of two things: what you like and what is generally accepted by those of us that will be following your endeavor. Thanks and good luck!

[ljbab728]

Steve is weighing in on this forum's influence here.

600 W Sheridan and the ?Upside? of OKC Talk | OKC Central

[Snowman]

This is an honest question, but why do you like Film Row..or downtown..if you don't like flat roofs? That is the epitome of suburban design which is the main problem here. I like others appreciate your proactive engagement with us though!

Even a lot of historic buildings do not have flat roofs, it is quite common to see buildings with parapets around the edges which hides the slant(s)

[lasomeday]

We looked at different roof designs and are still looking at it. The reason there is not a flat roof is simple and may irritate some people but it is simply that I do not like flat roofs. I think they are a maintenance nightmare and are one of the least efficient roof designs. I am the one that has to pay to fix, repair, replace the roof when problems arise. Every person I know that has had a flat roof tells me they would never do one again. I have had a couple of people with film row buildings or businesses tell me that their roofs leak. If the final design ends up with a hip roof, it will be the lowest pitch we can do to minimize noticeablity. No one is going to agree on every design element and have different opinions. (I personally hate stucco also but that seems to be a big trend now)

As far as the roof goes, it doesn't have to be pitched like a typical house. You can have it slant from one side of the roof to the other. There is one building on Main a building off of Hudson on the south side of the street. Its pitch is slight but drains well. You can see it from the Devon parking garage that the buildings around it have water on the roof, but that one has no problems. The roof looks flat from the front and the sides, because of the brick facade and because it is between the other buildings. You could do this by having the facade rise up on three sides and have the side it slants to be lower (back alley side).

Also you might look at using the art deco details in your design. They are simple and easy to replicate and can blend in with the other buildings in the historic district easily. I think if you take a look at the original Film Exchange building on 5th and Robinson, it may give you some inspiration on details and how to blend into the historic street. That buildings is about the same size as yours and has a simple facade that has some features you could use. If your design looks like it has been there for a hundred years it will add value and character to the neighborhood.

[Teo9969]

Jeep, Here are the issues I see with the building and some shortly thought out solutions:

1. The roof just doesn't work. There is no getting around this issue and if it is built with a Hip roof fronting Sheridan, it will be a major disappointment and an architectural disgrace for the area. I do not think there is any argument that can be made that does not essentially boil down to "This is what I like". You have laid been forthright that your main concern is cost. That's fair and I appreciate that you're candid about it. In fact, even if the building were built exactly as shown above I still hope your business does well and that your business enjoys it's home on film row...Nevertheless, that does not in any way change the fact that this building absolutely does not belong on this lot.

Just about any other roof style would be a vast improvement...I'd even take a Gambrel over the Hip. If you must do a slope, have you considered a shed type roof? You could potentially appease the height requirement by taking the top of the building at the corner of the lot up an entire story and tapering down to just two stories from East to West and North to South. The space can either be empty or used, and you could possibly even taper down to a Hip and get away with it visually...It could also help define the corner area that you all have put in that I think is the nicest feature of this project.

Also, please consider the use of a material other than shingles.


-I'm imagining a triangle type peak like in this picture in the material you're using in your building

2. The windows are somewhat monotonous and overstated. The main thing that doesn't work is the 2nd border around the windows. The windows would be vastly improved by pushing them to the edges of the accent pillars with no noticeable vertical border on the sides. This would create the sense that horizontally it's one long window that is sectioned off by the pillars rather than 6 windows of an exact square dimension.

Another option, and one that would go well with the shed type roof would be to slice the windows in half diagonally. I'd have to see it though to know if I liked it.

3. This probably would not be feasible if the shed roof idea appealed to you, but removing the pillar on the second level where the balcony is I think would enhance that space and make it feel not quite so rigid.

---

Like everyone else here, I appreciate your willingness to engage us in dialogue. Regardless of the outcome of this project, I don't think anyone here wishes bad on you or your business. Even so, I would encourage you to consider things beyond immediate dollars. Everything built downtown is not only a microscope now, but will be for many decades to come. I would encourage you to build a building that will not just meet the minimum requirements for approval but that will be a resounding success in the neighborhood because the building will be judged until the day it is torn down. Downtown OKC is only going to become *more* urban minded in both development and design as the years pass. This design, I assure you, will not age well with this district.

All the Best!

[BoulderSooner]

Steve is weighing in on this forum's influence here.

600 W Sheridan and the ?Upside? of OKC Talk | OKC Central

amazing he even knows about this discussion .. since he "left" the site ....

[Bellaboo]

amazing he even knows about this discussion .. since he "left" the site ....

Did you read the story ? He said Hunsucker called him about it......