University Town Center

[kevinpate]

The best indicator on if a developer is lying is if they are speaking.

breathing is a close second at times

[G.Walker]

Sent email to the Norman Economic Development Coalition regarding the University North Park Corporate Center, and this is what they had to say:

"I appreciate your support of economic development.

The project is still mainly the same as it concerns the office park. The national economy has really kept us from recruiting the out of town employers we had hoped for, but we currently have some activity.

We have a total of 60 acres and we are working on using the last 30 for an advanced manufacturing center concept. We are close to our first project in that area. I have attached our brochure which provides more information.

Please let our office know if we can provide additional information."

Don

[ChargerAg]

that sounds horrible.

Where is the discount tire that we were promised.

[rcjunkie]

that sounds horrible.

Where is the discount tire that we were promised.

Nothing says "High End" shopping like Discount Tire.

[OKCNDN]

that sounds horrible.

Where is the discount tire that we were promised.

Discount Tire is anything but...

They have the highest prices around. Always a little pushy too. "No reason to go anywhere else, we have the lowest prices anywhere". The thing about tires is many shops are the only places to get certain tires, not brands but models. You can't comparison shop. That's my experience anyway.

[Spartan]

Maybe he was talking to Nordstrom.

[okcustu]

I was suspicious of the project from the beginning. Rarely do directions to Louis Vuitton stores begin with "make a right at the Dress Barn and keep going until you see TJ Maxx"

[Just the facts]

I was suspicious of the project from the beginning. Rarely do directions to Louis Vuitton stores begin with "make a right at the Dress Barn and keep going until you see TJ Maxx"

Check out St. Johns Town Center. To get to Louis Vuitton you can enter by PetsMart, pass by Dress Barn, turn right at Target, turn right again at Dollar Tree, left at the ATT store, go around the traffic circle, and Louis Vuitton is just ahead on your right.

http://www.simon.com/mall/FloorPlan.aspx?id=857

[Jesseda]

lol i thought the same thing, how can target, tjmax petco, kohls etc be part of the upscale development..

[gamecock]

Because Target, TJ Maxx, Petco, and Kohls were never intended to be part of the upscale development . . .

[venture]

Pretty obvious the developers made a bit of a mistake not getting the lifestyle center portion of UNP developed first. Most of these centers that I've seen get developed have done the lifestyle center before the surrounding pad sites...we just got messed with on this one.

[venture]

It is obviously time for them to reconsider the plan for UNP. They really should negotiate a plan with GGP, who owns Sooner Mall, to construct the lifestyle portion of UNP and relocate all the stores from Sooner. Then I would go through there and tear down Sooner Mall and redevelop it as a commercial business park - something we don't have much of here. One that would fill up, I would look at the area south of Main Street and start expanding through there and even relocate the strip mall stores (not the restaurants) to UNP.

When I say business park, I'm thinking something on the scale of: http://www.arrowheadpark.org/APA%20W...dpark-2010.pdf

Probably highly unrealistic, but concentrating the bulk of the retail/shopping in one dense location would help the project overall. Then you have the ability to redevelop land as a high density business park that would increase the commercial population of the city and assist with tax revenue (and probably values) even more.

[TornadoKegan]

It is obviously time for them to reconsider the plan for UNP. They really should negotiate a plan with GGP, who owns Sooner Mall, to construct the lifestyle portion of UNP and relocate all the stores from Sooner. Then I would go through there and tear down Sooner Mall and redevelop it as a commercial business park - something we don't have much of here. One that would fill up, I would look at the area south of Main Street and start expanding through there and even relocate the strip mall stores (not the restaurants) to UNP.

When I say business park, I'm thinking something on the scale of: http://www.arrowheadpark.org/APA%20W...dpark-2010.pdf

Probably highly unrealistic, but concentrating the bulk of the retail/shopping in one dense location would help the project overall. Then you have the ability to redevelop land as a high density business park that would increase the commercial population of the city and assist with tax revenue (and probably values) even more.

I think sooner mall might want to look at possibly renovating to have a second floor then Macy's may be more likely to show up only issue. Not sure if it has the demand they might be better off relocating to another part of norman like unp as mentioned

[ou48A]

I hope the new Rock Creek I-35 bridge helps relieve some of the congestion on west Robinson

[rcjunkie]

I hope the new Rock Creek I-35 bridge helps relieve some of the congestion on west Robinson

It should, the traffic at Robinson and I-35 is horrible.

[kevinpate]

It's been open several weeks now. The once planned office complex for that northern end of UNP seems to be, at best, in a coma. The once planned, allegedly anyway, lifestyle center for the eastern part of UNP seems to be, at best, a long forgotten pipe dream. Seems the current thinking is that nobody is building lifestyle centers anymore and they feel they missed out but are hopeful something else will work out.

Not the city's best laid plans all in all. But as my bank moved there from Main I'll likely go over to that area more now. Hadn't been much to date to make it worth the bother.

[Spartan]

This is the progression of this project.

Large mixed-use lifestyle center > Project on hold, give us another year > Just Target strip mall only > Can't get lifestyle center tenants, but here's Discount Tire and Academy > Office portion ready to go > Oops can't get discount tire, office park having trouble now > Instead of office park, howabout a nice new "advanced manufacturing center" instead? > Utter fail?? > Citizens revolt and get their money back?

Maybe just wishful thinking..

[rcjunkie]

This is the progression of this project.

Large mixed-use lifestyle center > Project on hold, give us another year > Just Target strip mall only > Can't get lifestyle center tenants, but here's Discount Tire and Academy > Office portion ready to go > Oops can't get discount tire, office park having trouble now > Instead of office park, howabout a nice new "advanced manufacturing center" instead? > Utter fail?? > Citizens revolt and get their money back?

Maybe just wishful thinking..

The "advanced manufacturing center" has always been a compoent of this development. The far N. section (closer to Tecumseh Rd.) was the section identified for this land use segment.

[BG918]

I'm still of the opinion that UNP stays a big box center south of Rock Creek (which will soon connect across I-35) and then a mix of offices and higher density residential (apartments) north of Rock Creek to Robinson. There is an opportunity there to have good access to I-35 for residential (esp. for those commuting to OKC) and airport frontage on the east side creates some unique opportunities for aviation-related businesses.

Sooner Mall should remain as it is but should try to lure another retail anchor such as Macy's and maintain or slightly expand their current offering of stores. There is no reason, IMO, for Sooner Mall to not be on par with at least Quail Springs as far as small-format retail offerings. It is the primary retail center for the south metro..

Concentrate the few high-end retail shops that Norman could actually support in a new mixed-use development along University in Campus Corner. Something similar to what they have done along Crockett/West 7th in Fort Worth with stores, restaurants, a small hotel and movie theater.

[ChargerAg]

When did the discount tire deal fall through?

[venture]

Call me the eternal optimist...obviously though not with the current city leadership. UNP can definitely still be a retail powerhouse if they would work with some additional developers. I've seen new malls/lifestyle centers go up in the rust belt, where economies are in the tank, and absolutely thrive. There is no reason why something couldn't be done with GGP to move the stores in Sooner to a new lifestyle center/mall in UNP - Shops at North Park or whatever you want to call it. Bulldoze Sooner Mall and create a business park. The additional corporate density will help with property values, city income, and just the overall success of the city. Once it gets to a certain point, expand it south along Ed Noble in a mixed residential/commercial format.

Getting pretty off track here I know, but once this is all in place and the corporate population is growing, would extend (and widen) the north-south runway at Westheimer to around 7500' to permit for larger corporate aircraft to fly directly into Norman (granted a lot do now) from distances farther away. Not to mention, also allows OU to travel from the airport on chartered aircraft instead of going to Will Rogers. Of course, I can just hear the complaints now when the first 757 comes into Westheimer.

Anyway, it really is about reinventing Norman to be more self sufficient, which it has the ability to...but Rosenthal needs to wake up and actually do something.

[BG918]

Anyway, it really is about reinventing Norman to be more self sufficient, which it has the ability to...but Rosenthal needs to wake up and actually do something.

I don't have the same vision as you on several things, including UNP/Sooner Mall and Lindsey St, but I completely agree with your statement above. Norman has a lot of potential as a city independent, but still closely tied, to OKC but needs more effective leadership. The I-35 corridor is important but so is the central core and campus area, the part of Norman that makes it unique from anywhere else. We both want to see Norman prosper.

[kevinpate]

Followup on the Oct. 4 study session:

Norman city council members tonight ordered City Attorney Jeff Bryant to let University North Park developers know there would be no further negotiations until land for Legacy Park has been dedicated to the city as promised. “The developer is not negotiating with the city in good faith,” Council Member Hal Ezzell said. “The developer is playing games.”
No members of the University Town Center development team were at the study session meeting. The Transcript spoke to Stanton Nelson, a Norman resident and member of the development team, by phone following the meeting.
“It’s more complicated than just the delivery of giving the land,” Nelson said. “From my perspective, I want to see the park developed. I believe it will be a benefit to the city. We want to see it happen. We want to see an agreement made. The partnership is more than willing to donate the land in order to make this a reality, but it’s more complicated than that.”

Full article is at
http://normantranscript.com/headline...ark-dedication

[dop]

I keep hearing about the bad economy, but the outlet mall and Warren Theatre were built close by. Those may have worked pretty well at UNP?! May have drawn some people (and money) to Norman.

[BG918]

I keep hearing about the bad economy, but the outlet mall and Warren Theatre were built close by. Those may have worked pretty well at UNP?! May have drawn some people (and money) to Norman.

Agree, those would've done well and fit in well at UNP. But it didn't happen.