Amtrak to San Antonio?

[Just the facts]

No, I'm pretty sure I know what line I'm talking about. Being a rail buff, I know it used to be a Union Pacific line, formally, MKT. There's many parts of the line that are washed out, especially along the South Canadian River. It may go only as far as Shawnee but beyond that, it's not in operation.

You're right - that track needs some repairs. I took a look out near Earlsboro and there are even trees growing between the rails and the street crossing have been paved over. However, that is good for me because the major expense is right-of-way acqusition and since this line isn't used there is no freight traffic to deal with. I only considered using single car DMUs anyhow so it isn't like it would need to support HSR.

[OKCisOK4me]

You're right - that track needs some repairs. However, that is good for me because the major expense is right-of-way acqusition and since this line isn't used there is no freight traffic to deal with.

The only reason I can think of for why it'd still be in operation east of Shawnee is for the Army Munitions plant in McAlester, but UP's Tulsa/Dallas line runs right through McAlester so it's an easy connection there.

[Just the facts]

The only reason I can think of for why it'd still be in operation east of Shawnee is for the Army Munitions plant in McAlester, but UP's Tulsa/Dallas line runs right through McAlester so it's an easy connection there.

Rail access to the munitions plant if off the Dallas/Tulsa UP line. Out of OKC going east the line is owned by UP but leased by Santa Fe. In Shawnee it connects with a Santa Fe spur line that goes north and crosses I-40. It goes to three industrial users close to I-40 and then from there north it is abandoned. When I was making my route map it was really neat (and sad) to see all the abandonded lines around the state. I also thought it was weird that there is no direct rail traffic from OKC to Amarillo. The UP line west out of OKC stops at Erick, OK (although UP ownership stops at El Reno). To get to Amarillo by rail you have to go to Enid or Altus first.

[mburlison]

Heck, just do it (take Amtrak) --- consider it an adventure w/ all the + & - / it's something different to do. Take your camera, use your imagination, some people don't see all there is to see .

[sacolton]

My girlfriend and I decided to be adventurous and take the Amtrak to Ft. Worth. From the start, it was a nightmare. The OKC station is a dilapidated building. I couldn't believe this is how Oklahoma greets its passengers? Image is everything and this wasn't a good first impression. Just look at Ft. Worths station and compare. Theirs looks very professional, clean, well-lit and beautiful environment. OKC station looks like a dump.

Once we got to the platform, you wait until the train is ready. You will not benefit by getting to the platform early. There is no line, so when the conductor tells everyone to board the train - it's chaos of people trying to run to get on first. Pure madness!

Once on the train and take your seat, you'll have to tolerate the noise of others. We had the misfortune of sitting near a group of very loud talkers and one guy who didn't need a headset to listen to his hip-hop music and shared it with everyone. The conductors did nothing to keep the noise down.

Painfully slow train ride. It makes many stops on the way to Ft. Worth. We decided it is best to drive to Ft. Worth instead.

Oh, we also looked into getting a sleeper (yes, even for a 4 hour trip - for the peace and quiet), but Amtrak doesn't provide sleeper cars for OKC to Ft. Worth.

[SkyWestOKC]

That's why I fly to DFW whenever I go. Takes the same amount of time when you add in security and getting there early. Costs about the same as Amtrak, and you only have to deal with sitting next to someone for 30 minutes. Not the hassle and energy spent driving for 3 hours.

[Spartan]

I am saying that instead of the federal government collecting money and sending it back out with all kinds of conditions and studies attached, let the states keep the money and spend it how it is needed locally. The $75 million didn't originate in D.C., they just took it and then gave it back with instructions on how to spend it. Cutting out the middle man (the federal government) would make things less expensive and faster. Even states the receive more in benefits than they pay in would be better off because of the reduciton in red tape.

Kerry. Read this post carefully. I don't disagree that what you're saying would be easier and more convenient, would make more sense, and would even be preferable. However, this is just the way things are done. It is in our best interest to see how the game is played and follow the rules to maximize what we can get out of it. Taking some philosophical or moral stance on earmarks is tilting at windmills and just screws you over in the long run. We need those earmarks as long as that is the way that infrastructure is funded. There is -NO- other way to be reasonable here. Just realize that.

[ljbab728]

My girlfriend and I decided to be adventurous and take the Amtrak to Ft. Worth. From the start, it was a nightmare. The OKC station is a dilapidated building. I couldn't believe this is how Oklahoma greets its passengers? Image is everything and this wasn't a good first impression. Just look at Ft. Worths station and compare. Theirs looks very professional, clean, well-lit and beautiful environment. OKC station looks like a dump.

Once we got to the platform, you wait until the train is ready. You will not benefit by getting to the platform early. There is no line, so when the conductor tells everyone to board the train - it's chaos of people trying to run to get on first. Pure madness!

Once on the train and take your seat, you'll have to tolerate the noise of others. We had the misfortune of sitting near a group of very loud talkers and one guy who didn't need a headset to listen to his hip-hop music and shared it with everyone. The conductors did nothing to keep the noise down.

Painfully slow train ride. It makes many stops on the way to Ft. Worth. We decided it is best to drive to Ft. Worth instead.

Oh, we also looked into getting a sleeper (yes, even for a 4 hour trip - for the peace and quiet), but Amtrak doesn't provide sleeper cars for OKC to Ft. Worth.

Keep in mind that the OKC station will be the new intermodal transportation hub and should see some significant upgrades. As for noise, I'm sure that wasn't pleasant, but you can experience noise overload on planes or buses as well.

Surely you knew about the time schedule for the train to Fort Worth before buying a ticket. When it's on schedule, it takes about 4 hours compared to about 3 hours driving. Maybe you consider 5 stops to be many but it is reasonable for that route. Until we have high speed rail, people won't be taking train travel for speed.

It certainly is not reasonable to expect sleeper cars on a train from OKC to Fort Worth that only operates during the day. It makes no sense economically or otherwise. They might get one person per day who would want a sleeper and who would pay for the added expense.

[Just the facts]

Spartan - I understand how it is done now, and how it is done has produced our current Amtrak system that takes 16 hours to go 400 miles. If you want to make a better system you can't keep doing things the same way. If the pottery is coming out all screwed up you have to break the mold and start again. If there is anything we know to be true in this world, it is that Washington DC is incapable of change so any rail improvements will have to be done without and inspite of them.

[Spartan]

Countries that have working rail systems have all used their own federal funds to build their systems. The U.S. is not the only country in the world where states are semi sovereign.

[Just the facts]

Countries that have working rail systems have all used their own federal funds to build their systems. The U.S. is not the only country in the world where states are semi sovereign.

If you want the US federal government to implement your rail system, they already did it. It is called Amtrak. Where does your trust and faith in government come from because it isn't based on their track record of success?

[transport_oklahoma]

Given the high level of repeat business, it seems the Heartland Flyer has plenty of happy customers.

In case any of you get the wrong idea from some of these posts, Superliner Coach on this train is roughly the equivalent of 767 international business class in terms of personal space, carry-on space, leg rests and so forth.

There are individual reading lights, curtains on the windows, and some seats have 110 volt AC outlets.

There are sandwiches, snacks, hot beverages, soft drinks, and liquor for sale. Or you can bring your own (except adult beverages!).

WiFI isn't available, but it's coming.

[OKCisOK4me]

While sacolton has a very bad review of the whole Amtrak experience, I gave a great review of me and my girlfriends trip down there on the same train. No run is any different from another, so obviously the issue is personal preference. One thing I enjoyed coming back is sneering at traffic in a standstill on I-35 as we're bolting by at 80mph! Not too shabby...

[Just the facts]

Given the high level of repeat business, it seems the Heartland Flyer has plenty of happy customers.

In case any of you get the wrong idea from some of these posts, Superliner Coach on this train is roughly the equivalent of 767 international business class in terms of personal space, carry-on space, leg rests and so forth.

There are individual reading lights, curtains on the windows, and some seats have 110 volt AC outlets.

There are sandwiches, snacks, hot beverages, soft drinks, and liquor for sale. Or you can bring your own (except adult beverages!).

WiFI isn't available, but it's coming.

The Heartland Flier is one of only two profitable routes on the entire Amtrak system. And I use the term 'profitable' loosely because it requires a multi-million subsidy from the States of Oklahoma and Texas. If left to just the federal government the route wouldn't exist at all, which leads me to wonder if a state based regional rail system could run it better. What if Texas and Oklahoma just funded their own rail network between Ft. Worth and OKC instead of paying subsidies to Amtrak. We could probably get 2 or 3 trains a day.

[RadioOKC]

I actually did San Diego to Little Rock about 15 years ago. I personally had a blast. $1 Daquaris in the club car with a bunch from Australia and some board games. Good times. The scenery out west is awesome. I made the trip several times between San Diego and Anaheim (Disneyland) and there is no better way to travel that route. You get dropped off at Angels Stadium and walk to DL from there.

Chris
www.radiookc.com

[Maynard]

I'm all about relaxing on trains, but 12 hours is a hard train ride, I've done my share of those. The last time I had a 12 hour train ride, we ended up running someone over in Katowice, PL and then more construction delays made it 18 hours--but it was only like $15. How many times would I change on a European 12 hour train ride? It depends, there are always a dozen daily direct trains between all regional major cities (ie., Krakow to Budapest, Warsaw to Berlin, etc). But if you take an odd night route or something, or if you're getting off the intercity grid, then yeah there can be a switch every hour or so on those kinds of trips. It depends.

The reason I even bother with the point of why Amtrak is so sucky in this part is because Amtrak actually offers decent service for the Northeast Corridor and somewhat okay service in the Midwest (in/out of Chicago). I am confident that they can do it, there just has to be a will. Believe it or not, the U.S. is not THAT sparsely populated. If you connect Oklahoma to points east and along I-35, it's doable density-wise, and it would be comparable to some places in Europe, particularly Central Europe which is augmented by mountain ranges. Countries like PL, CZ, HU, SK aren't all that dense, and have huge sweeping plains just like OK and MO, in fact, the train scenery there always reminded me of the drive from OKC to Chicago.

Man, this one brings back memories!

[kevinpate]

... We could probably get 2 or 3 trains a day.

With the level of freight running on that same line, adding another couple of daily passenger runs from OKC-FW strikes me as somewhat difficult.

[ljbab728]

Man, this one brings back memories!

Other than the fact that the video uses public transportation as a background, does it have anything to do with this thread?

[Just the facts]

With the level of freight running on that same line, adding another couple of daily passenger runs from OKC-FW strikes me as somewhat difficult.

I am pretty sure they could get another couple of trains a day on those tracks. The traffic isn't that heavy when compared to some other heavy use areas around the country. Folkston, GA gets a train ever 20 minutes and it includes 8 Amtrak trains.

[ou48A]

I don’t mind taking the heartland flyer but I sure wish that it was much quicker.

What additional improvements are needed to significantly speed things up?
Does anyone have an update on the plan to extend train service to KC?

[CaptDave]

Just took the Heartland Flyer to Ft Worth on Saturday for the first time. All in all it was a good experience. It is a very good option cost wise for one or two people depending on the type vehicle you drive. The train departed OKC on time and arrived in Ft Worth a few minutes early. I think the previous comments about BNSF cooperating with Amtrak for prioritization must be accurate because we never waited for a freight train to pass. In fact we passed a few "high priority" freights such as intermodals sitting on sidings waiting for us. The seating and availability of refreshments beats any airline and the cost is significantly lower than anything in an airport. With the TRE connection at the Ft Worth Intermodal Center, it is very easy to get to Dallas and connections on DART and other Amtrak trains.

I agree the Santa Fe depot in OKC needs some TLC. You can see it is a very nice building and will serve us well as the future transit center. I am looking forward to seeing it after a restoration. The ticketing kiosk is located in a rather inconvenient place; and since the station is not staffed it is not the most inviting place. Hopefully this will change once it becomes the OKC transit center. (The Ft Worth Intermodal Transit Center is a very good model we would do well to emulate in concept.)

So while it is true you can drive or fly to DFW faster, the Heartland Flyer is definitely the most laid back way to get there. No driving, lots of space, and no TSA mugging. When you factor in time spent waiting at the airport or driving, I think Amtrak is a pretty good trade off. I will definitely ride the Flyer again if it is only a couple people travelling. I wish the rest of the Amtrak system was as good.

[ou48A]

How many of you would rather see the Heartland flyer going directly to Dallas rather than Fort Worth?
I know I would...... and I think it would significantly increase ridership.

[Just the facts]

I would rather see the Heartland Flyer dropped from the national Amtrak system and ran as its own regional rail line funded by Texas and Oklahoma. The train is one of only two profitable routes in the entire Amtrak system and all the profits go to Amtrak despite most of the funding coming for Oklahoma and Texas. We need to eliminate the middle man. I would also like to see an AM train from Ft Worth to OKC with a PM return.

[ou48A]

I would rather see the Heartland Flyer dropped from the national Amtrak system and ran as its own regional rail line funded by Texas and Oklahoma. The train is one of only two profitable routes in the entire Amtrak system and all the profits go to Amtrak despite most of the funding coming for Oklahoma and Texas. We need to eliminate the middle man. I would also like to see an AM train from Ft Worth to OKC with a PM return.

How would you feel about a state operated extension to Kansas City via the northern flyer?

[Just the facts]

How would you feel about a state operated extension to Kansas City via the northern flyer?

Way ahead of you. I would like to see Ft Worth, Lawton, OKC, Tulsa, Wichita, Topeaka, Kansas City, and Omaha all connected by high speed express service.

https://sites.google.com/site/okcrail/