Nfl in okc

[kevinpate]

And here I was thinking the notion of it being easy to change our alcohol laws was the sillier part of my post.

[BB37]

You want an NFL franchise(?); or do you want to keep supporting Dallas, Kansas City, St. Louis, Denver or Houston's teams and their economies.

I don't support any of them now, so what's your point?

[Just the facts]

If Jacksonville can support an NFL team then OKC can support an NFL team. The problem is Jax can't support an NFL team.

[Bunty]

Get Tulsa in on this by building a billion dollar stadium half way between OKC and Tulsa near Stroud and run high speed rail to it from both cities. Maybe the rail could be placed along side the Turner Turnpike. Get both Oklahoma and Tulsa counties to fund the project by raising county sales taxes through a vote of the people. Or build the stadium in Stillwater, so the rail could serve OKC and Tulsa people wanting to go to sports at OSU. To make the rail useful year round, probably a high rise gambling complex would be built near the stadium.

[Laramie]

We are always going to have nay-sayers on the forum who don't really know what we have here in Oklahoma to support what. The same nay-sayers who said that OKC would never be able to support an NHL or NBA franchise. Well, when 2020 rolls around we should be ready. We have all the mechanisms in place that no other city has--MAPS! Let's start thinking BIG!

If Jacksonville can support an NFL team then OKC can support an NFL team. The problem is Jax can't support an NFL team.

An NFL city that closely mirrors OKC would be New Orleans. The demographics which determine an NFL franchise are Market (Population & Media), Stadium and Ownership. Oklahoma City mirrors New Orleans in Market. We are bigger than New Orleans in metro and central city population and more TV households:

1. Market
2. Stadium
3. Ownerhip Group

NFL requires that there be at least 2 million people living in a 100 mile radius. There are more than 3 million within a 100-miles radius of Oklahoma City.

MSA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_o...tistical_Areas

44 Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,252,987
46 New Orleans-Metairie-Kenner, LA MSA 1,167,764

Central City: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

31 Oklahoma City Oklahoma 579,999
52 New Orleans Louisiana 343,829

Market Media TV Households: http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resource...sizes-dma.html

45 Oklahoma City . . . 704,670
52 New Orleans . . . . 635,860

Stadium

Gaylord Family Memorial Stadium 82,000 - 85,000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaylord...morial_Stadium
New Orleans Superdome 76,400 - 82.000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Superdome

New Orelans has only one Fortune 500 company
Oklahoma City has two-three Fortune 500 companies.


Yes, New Orleans has NFL and NBA for now. I don't know how long they will be able to sustain that kind of support.

Oklahoma City won't be ready for the NFL until around 2020. Stadium wouldn't be a problem; OU is willing to let the NFL use Gaylord Family Memorial Stadium as a temporary home provided OKC has an NFL stadium ready for finance and construction. A state ownership group wouldn't be a problem.

MAPS I had an NHL-NBA arena on its ballot.
MAPS IV (2017) will have some type of stadium; hopefully something big time which could support NFL if we decided to go that route.

The New Orleans Saints are owned by Dr. Benson of San Antonio, TX.

I don't believe that ownership would be a problem in Oklahoma.

New Orleans doesn't have the college football base competition that an NFL Oklahoma team would have. Tulsa is as close to OKC (106) as Baton Rouge is to New Orleans (81). You would definitely have to be on board with making an NFL franchise a state supported team.

[MustangGT]

If wishes were horses beggars would ride. Maybe one day in the dark distance future but the reality is not in the next 10 years. That is not a naysayer that is REALITY. Think about BILLION dollar stadium. NOT going to happen anytime soon in OK. Like Just the facts posted JAX cannot and we cannot at this time.

[Bunty]

If wishes were horses beggars would ride. Maybe one day in the dark distance future but the reality is not in the next 10 years. That is not a naysayer that is REALITY. Think about BILLION dollar stadium. NOT going to happen anytime soon in OK. Like Just the facts posted JAX cannot and we cannot at this time.

Yeah, after efforts to legalize gambling went down in defeat in Oklahoma in the 1990s, lots of people must have said lotteries and casinos would never come to Oklahoma. But less then 10 years later they came in. Probably all the casinos in Oklahoma are worth over a billion dollars.

[venture]

We are always going to have nay-sayers on the forum who don't really know what we have here in Oklahoma to support what. The same nay-sayers who said that OKC would never be able to support an NHL or NBA franchise. Well, when 2020 rolls around we should be ready. We have all the mechanisms in place that no other city has--MAPS! Let's start thinking BIG!

You would be in better position to support your position if you chose a city that wasn't completely devastated by a natural disaster and hasn't recovered to levels before that. Don't forget, there were some indications that the owners of the Saints were thinking about staying in San Antonio...but decided to go back to NOLA. If the former owner of the Hornets had his way, we would be cheering for them still...not the Thunder. Luckily that didn't happen. :-)

[MustangGT]

Yeah, after efforts to legalize gambling went down in defeat in Oklahoma in the 1990s, lots of people must have said lotteries and casinos would never come to Oklahoma. But less then 10 years later they came in. Probably all the casinos in Oklahoma are worth over a billion dollars.

Bunty are ALL games available in LV possible at the Indian Casinos in OK???

[Laramie]

I'm stunned at the number of people who don't understand some basic facts about economics and population.

Let's get the basics out of the way. Oklahoma City cannot support an NFL franchise. Period. Why?

First, the underlying costs for establishing/transferring/getting (fill in your favorite word) an NFL franchise are on the order of $1 billion. We have some very nice emerging industrial/corporate presence in this city, and they're great for supporting the NBA, but don't have that kind of scratch.

Second, population is ABSOLUTELY a vital element of the equation, because that's your fan base. You have to do the math that estimates how much discretionary income people have to spend on things like football tickets - and, mind you, not just six or seven home games a year, but a minimum of ten, not including playoffs. Eight regular season games, plus (generally) two home pre-season games which virtually every franchise in the league forces you to purchase as part of a season ticket package. Given that the average NFL ticket price is around $100-$125, that means a pair of season tickets is going to run right at $2500 - to say nothing of parking, and then concessions that will be priced at a level to make OU home games look like fast-food prices.

Third, we have no facility. An NFL-caliber facility hosting a minimum of 60-65K people plus luxury suites is going to be - again - a venture on the order of $1 billion, and guess who's going to get hit up to finance it - OKC taxpayers. Most people here don't realize we got the current arena on the drastically cheap, and the fact that it's completely paid for is a huge advantage in landing our NBA team. But there's no way on earth anyone can front that kind of money when Jerry World is three hours away. You think OKC folks are prime for a MAPS 4, 5, or 6 to pay for an NFL football stadium? Not hardly. And, no, we can't use OU or OSU's stadiums because you can't sell beer at either location, and the NFL and beer are married like white on a polar bear.

There was a story a few weeks ago about a city that sold bonds and raised various taxes to build a new stadium, and the project has turned sour for the city with huge debt and the slow economy drying up revenues. It was a model of what not to do. In a word, it was a mess.

Believe me, the notion of the NFL in OKC is a fun and dreamy prospect. I don't like to shoot down the idea. But I'm also compelled to view such a project with reality, and the reality is that our fandom for OU and OSU at the college level does not, in any way, shape, or form, translate into NFL-caliber financial support. It just isn't going to happen.

Good point, Sooner Dave.

[MustangGT]

SoonerDave all the proponents of this NFL dribble need to read your post as they are ignorant of the truth and reality. Thank you for educating the ignorant/indolent.

[Kokopelli]

Get Tulsa in on this by building a billion dollar stadium half way between OKC and Tulsa near Stroud and run high speed rail to it from both cities. Maybe the rail could be placed along side the Turner Turnpike. Get both Oklahoma and Tulsa counties to fund the project by raising county sales taxes through a vote of the people. Or build the stadium in Stillwater, so the rail could serve OKC and Tulsa people wanting to go to sports at OSU. To make the rail useful year round, probably a high rise gambling complex would be built near the stadium.

Have had the same thoughts in regards to a NASCAR track.

[Achilleslastand]

This is never going to happen at least not in the next 10 years or so. I cant see OKC or Tulsa putting 60,000 people in seats for 8 weeks outta the year plus any preseason or playoff games. For one person your looking at 80-100 bucks for low end ticket plus 30-50 bucks to park and then whatever concessions you want.
Keep dreaming.......Were not big league yet regardless of what mayor mick feeds us.

[Bunty]

This is never going to happen at least not in the next 10 years or so. I cant see OKC or Tulsa putting 60,000 people in seats for 8 weeks outta the year plus any preseason or playoff games. For one person your looking at 80-100 bucks for low end ticket plus 30-50 bucks to park and then whatever concessions you want.
Keep dreaming.......Were not big league yet regardless of what mayor mick feeds us.

Well, maybe when and if OSU can fill it's stadium with every football game every year like OU does with theirs.

[skyrick]

Well, maybe when and if OSU can fill it's stadium with every football game every year like OU does with theirs.

One thing a lot of people keep missing is that NCAA football fans are not necessarily the same thing as NFL fans. They're almost different sports.

[Laramie]

If wishes were horses beggars would ride. Maybe one day in the dark distance future but the reality is not in the next 10 years. That is not a naysayer that is REALITY. Think about BILLION dollar stadium. NOT going to happen anytime soon in OK. Like Just the facts posted JAX cannot and we cannot at this time.

A billion dollars will buy a lot more in metro-OKC than in the Dallas-Ft.Worth Metroplex.

[Laramie]

One thing a lot of people keep missing is that NCAA football fans are not necessarily the same thing as NFL fans. They're almost different sports.

Agree, studies have shown that there is not a lot of overlapping.

[bluedogok]

A billion dollars will buy a lot more in metro-OKC than in the Dallas-Ft.Worth Metroplex.

When it comes to construction, not really. I have found in doing projects all over Oklahoma and Texas that material and labor prices in this region are pretty consistent, no matter where the construction happens. The only variable in a project of that size is land cost, I am not sure how the land acquisition for Jerryworld was handled, if that was done by the City of Arlington or by the Cowboys themselves but that land in Arlington wasn't exactly prime, top dollar land in the DFW Metroplex.

[Laramie]

When it comes to construction, not really. I have found in doing projects all over Oklahoma and Texas that material and labor prices in this region are pretty consistent, no matter where the construction happens. The only variable in a project of that size is land cost, I am not sure how the land acquisition for Jerryworld was handled, if that was done by the City of Arlington or by the Cowboys themselves but that land in Arlington wasn't exactly prime, top dollar land in the DFW Metroplex.

I can probably agree with most of that; I can say that I haven't done a lot of research in this area (land acquisition Texas-Oklahoma), however, based on the $16 million we spent on MAPS I, land acquisition in downtown Oklahoma City which included Bricktown Ballpark, Bricktown Canal, Riverfront Development and Indoor Sports Arena land was cheaper in Oklahoma City than Dallas-Ft. Worth. We built the Sports Arena at an initial investment of $97 million; this did not include all the bells & whistles which went into the Dallas America Airlines Center ($420 million); we've probably put an additional $100 million (MAPs for HOOPS) into the indoor sports arena (Chesapeake Energy Arena) costing rougy $200 million to date; less than half of what Dallas paid for the American Airline Arena. In all fairness to Dallas, there were some side developments in the AA Center which may or may not have been hidden into the development.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Center

JerryWorld could probably be constructed here for around than $700 million and probably cheaper if built at Fair Park where land acquisition and most infrastructure development is already there. One of our local OKC steel companies had the contract for the construction of the stadium in Arlington. I'm sure we would want to place a stadium in Bricktown area near the Riverfront as opposed to Fair Pair.

In Febrary of 1967, the Oklahoman carried an article ("Huge City Stadium Asked.") about building an outdoor 75,000 - 100,000-seat stadium at Fair Park which would have cost us $5 to $7 million. Man, we need to get a stadium built while we can afford one because they are getting more expensive to build the longer we wait.

[skyrick]

A billion dollars will buy a lot more in metro-OKC than in the Dallas-Ft.Worth Metroplex.

You think so? I don't. We're not talking about houses. I believe Jerry-World would have cost as much in OKC as it did in Arlington.

[skyrick]

The only variable in a project of that size is land cost, I am not sure how the land acquisition for Jerryworld was handled, if that was done by the City of Arlington or by the Cowboys themselves but that land in Arlington wasn't exactly prime, top dollar land in the DFW Metroplex.

It was acquired by "Eminent Domain".

[bluedogok]

I know there was a lot of expense for environmental remediation of the land where the American Airlines Center sits. It was a nasty brownfield site with a large amount of contamination. I am not sure where those costs were accounted for, whether it was prior to the funding for the AAC or if they were included in the total.

The land costs and site prep are always the huge variable in any large project, I was mainly trying to state that material/labor costs are very similar in this market. We don't have a situation like a NYC or Washington DC market where there are innumerable of costs and taxes/fees on top of higher priced material and labor costs that exponentially make construction more expensive in those places.

[Laramie]

I know there was a lot of expense for environmental remediation of the land where the American Airlines Center sits. It was a nasty brownfield site with a large amount of contamination. I am not sure where those costs were accounted for, whether it was prior to the funding for the AAC or if they were included in the total.

The land costs and site prep are always the huge variable in any large project, I was mainly trying to state that material/labor costs are very similar in this market. We don't have a situation like a NYC or Washington DC market where there are innumerable of costs and taxes/fees on top of higher priced material and labor costs that exponentially make construction more expensive in those places.

Labor cost are similar in both markets. I'm not knowledgeable about the bidding on projects here in Oklahoma; however, I do recall that the downtown indoor sports arena was grossly underbidded. I believe that once you win a bid, you are allowed a certain percentage you can go over that bid. I remember something like $66 million was the initial bid on the downtown indoor sports area. Someway, somehow it ended up costing us $89 - $97 million.

[bluedogok]

Flintco miscalculated the bid and was given the opportunity to forfeit their bid bond and be released from the project, they neglected to do that and proceeded with the project. Our project managers were afraid they were going to go into change order artist mode to try and make up the difference but they were pleasantly surprised that Flintco did not do that and worked with our people on potential cost issues very well. The large bid was the main building contract, other items like furnishings (seats, suites, etc.), scoreboards and other items involved in the finish out were bid in later packages and contributed to the final cost number.

[Laramie]

Ok, Green Bay can support an NFL team and not OKC, I believe not...NFL would be a huge success in OKC despite the doubting Thomas's...

So true, continue to believe, everybody thinks that the NFL couldn't survive in OKC. It's surviving in New Orleans where the per capita income is slightly higher; yet comparable to that in OKC in demographics where OKC is larger in Population, TV Households and could find ownership investors. Oklahoma City has more Fortune 500 companies than New Orleans. The NFL is surviving in Jacksonville, FL.

I remember the year we were awarded the Olympic Festival in 1989. We orginially were trying to land a World's Fair. Oklahomans were so misinformed; they thought that our current 400 acres at Fair Park wasn't big enough to host an event of that magnitude. Knoxville, TN's World's Fair was held on 66 acres. Had we hosted the World's Fair in 1989, it would have been held on the largest acerage for any World's Fair. We assume that Oklahoma is too small for anything big without doing some research. We are our own worst enemies when it comes to selling and promoting our city and state.

Many thought that Oklahoma City would never get an NBA or NHL franchise and if we did--we couldn't support. Those days are the kind we need to put behind us. It's not a pipedream--it can become reality with a chance of materializing in seven to ten years if we have a facility financed or in place.

Think big, plan for the next level.

I said this on several forums in 1996 that OKC would get an NHL or NBA franchise with in the next decade and I was hearing these same ole stale comments then, that I am hearing now...