Classen Boulevard

[Mr. Cotter]

I'm not sure we even need true BRT on Classen. The traffic congestion is rarely bad enough to require a dedicated lane or larger buses. If existing route 5 were extended to include the Farmer's Market and frequency were increased from 30 minutes to 10-15, and architectural stops were placed at major intersections, a relatively low investment would make a significant improvement in transportation on Classen.

NW Expressway could really benefit from BRT.

[bchris02]

Does anybody think that narrowing Classen from six lanes to four lanes is a good idea? Personally I don't see it. It's a major auto-centric thoroughfare that I currently think should stay that way. That doesn't mean I don't support improvements to the corridor but at this point in time I see much more harm than benefit that would come from narrowing the thoroughfare. Now in 20-30 years, if there is walkable, urban development lining the street, it might make more sense, but for now I don't see it.

[Urban Pioneer]

COTPA's chief planner is a BRT advocate and has been in the past not overly supportive of streetcar. There are other issues at bay with the politics in investigating BRT.

However, the official ACOG Corridor Study selected expanding the streetcar all the way up Classen from NW 13th to the 63rd Street Commutter Rail stop.

Assuming the RTA is formed, presumably they would follow their own study's findings.

[Urbanized]

I can confirm that Larry loves him some BRT. When we went on the ULI trip to San Antonio last fall he was giddy as a kid under a Christmas tree when we checked out one of their BRT vehicles.

[Teo9969]

Billions..?

If I recall, the Light Rail (I said street car upthread) is CAPEX of right around $1B. Then you include development that would front Classen from Reno to NW Expressway and I'm pretty sure $2B would not be out of reach. I should have said a couple billion instead of billions to be more clear.

[Teo9969]

Does anybody think that narrowing Classen from six lanes to four lanes is a good idea? Personally I don't see it. It's a major auto-centric thoroughfare that I currently think should stay that way. That doesn't mean I don't support improvements to the corridor but at this point in time I see much more harm than benefit that would come from narrowing the thoroughfare. Now in 20-30 years, if there is walkable, urban development lining the street, it might make more sense, but for now I don't see it.

One of the things they mentioned was that Classen will soon have direct access to I-40 because Western is getting cut off at the Boulevard. That has the potential to increase traffic between Reno and 13th, but I highly suspect it won't.

Yesterday they mentioned that the traffic count from Reno to 13th is 8k-15k a day, and from 13th to 23rd is like 20k - 25k. So I think south of 13th that 4-lanes is ideal, plus it would help us address the inconsistency issues in the sidewalks in this area.

And honestly, you might even be able to drop it to 4 lanes at 16th.

North of 23rd, I suspect we wouldn't even consider dropping to 4 lanes until we were installing BRT or Light Rail. Again, we haven't studied north of 23rd enough yet to really know.

[Teo9969]

Slides are Up:

A Better Classen Boulevard | The Institute for Quality Communities

Slides 32/33/34 demonstrate an example of the approach the steering committee recommends: Short-term, easy solutions (cheap, quick, impermanent solutions). Mid-term solutions that require a bit more money. Long-term, final decisions that would likely require bonding. From what I understand, they'd like to implement some Short-term solutions to various problems by the end of the year.

[Pete]

Really like this idea from that presentation:

[Pete]

Or even better, this:

[Pete]

[sooner88]

Or even better, this:

This would be awesome.

[Teo9969]

The difference between that and the below is all cosmetic. That's why we need to implement some of the latter now. If we decide that it's not functioning as we want it to, we can make slight modifications.

This, btw, could be done all over the city, and would be a GREAT way to pilot a more comprehensive and user-friendly bike-program.

[Urbanized]

I'm glad that dedicated (protected) bike lanes got so much traction. During early discussions my understanding was that there was not a lot of excitement about them from the City.

My favorite takeaway was the bike boxes, already in use in Portland and San Francisco. It was a mild revelation for me. It uses the built environment (in this case only paint on the pavement) to prioritize bicycles at intersections, and wordlessly communicates to autos that bicycles are an accepted use on the street, and that they should cooperate with bicycles at crossings. Jon Dodson discussed how difficult it was to get a family across Classen from HH/Mesta in the direction of Plaza. He said that if traffic is backed up at all you sometimes can't even make it to the crossing before the light turns. This allows bikes to creep up their lane and position themselves in front of the cars, so that they have a good shot at crossing immediately after the light turns green.

[Pete]

We have the painted bike lanes here in Southern California and they really do make a difference.

[sooner88]

I'm glad that dedicated (protected) bike lanes got so much traction. During early discussions my understanding was that there was not a lot of excitement about them from the City.

My favorite takeaway was the bike boxes, already in use in Portland and San Francisco. It was a mild revelation for me. It uses the built environment (in this case only paint on the pavement) to prioritize bicycles at intersections, and wordlessly communicates to autos that bicycles are an accepted use on the street, and that they should cooperate with bicycles at crossings. Jon Dodson discussed how difficult it was to get a family across Classen from HH/Mesta in the direction of Plaza. He said that if traffic is backed up at all you sometimes can't even make it to the crossing before the light turns. This allows bikes to creep up their lane and position themselves in front of the cars, so that they have a good shot at crossing immediately after the light turns green.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_stop_line

[Urbanized]

Portland has had to do some fine-tuning on them, as bike/auto accidents have actually INCREASED since their installation, but some of that can be attributed to increased overall ridership. There is also the thought that the bike boxes have made both drivers and riders a bit more blasé about each other, as if they don't have to pay as much attention since everything is taken care of with the lane configuration. If that is truly the case, there are other enhancements that can add to the safety.

[Pete]

I'd really like to see dedicated bike lanes on Classen added all the way up to the Chesapeake campus.

It could be a collector for all the surrounding neighborhoods and help move people downtown and to the Plaza District, Uptown and beyond.

The traffic counts north of 23rd may be higher but there are far few lights as you head north and traffic always moves really well through there. I say take the whole thing down to 4 lanes with dedicated bike likes in both directions.

[David]

I don't remember who linked this (I think I saw it on Twitter but it may have been someone who posts here too), but I watched this a few weeks back and it seemed like an excellent idea.

[Teo9969]

Multi Modal was a term thrown around a lot (and even still, perhaps not enough). So there's definitely an emphasis on bikability.

Depending on how the long term plan with Light Rail/BRT affects the street layout, there may be plenty of room to leave the street at 6 lanes, and get the space for the extra lanes by expanding pavement on the easement. But that's exactly the kind of work that needs to be measured and engineered.

I've shared it several times, but this has a lot of elements of what I'd like to see in Classen North of 23rd.



I'd take away the on-street parking since it is a legit Boulevard, and put in the dedicated-bikelines that provide a barrier between the sidewalk and street.

I think we're about 20 - 30 feet shorter across from sidewalk to sidewalk, but perhaps we have more easement we could use to widen the street. to accommodate 6 lanes

[catch22]

Portland has had to do some fine-tuning on them, as bike/auto accidents have actually INCREASED since their installation, but some of that can be attributed to increased overall ridership. There is also the thought that the bike boxes have made both drivers and riders a bit more blasé about each other, as if they don't have to pay as much attention since everything is taken care of with the lane configuration. If that is truly the case, there are other enhancements that can add to the safety.

In my part of town, (which is not Portland proper, but rather a suburb) cyclists rarely follow traffic laws. The most frequent violation I see is riding opposite direction. Second most is riding on sidewalks and entering intersections as a pedestrian.

It creates a major point of conflict. As a driver, making a right turn at an intersection, you wait for pedestrians in the crosswalk. Then as they are clear, you start to move through the turn as you should. And then a cyclist comes jetting off the sidewalk behind/to the right of you into the intersection on the crosswalk. Unless you can see them approaching through your mirror you will narrowly avoid a potentially fatal conflict.

If they would stay in the bike lane, or if one is not provided, ride on the street, it would be safer for everyone.

That's what concerns me with Oklahoma, new cyclists likely do not know the rules, and even worse yet, is that OK drivers don't know or won't follow the rules for sharing. At least in Portland, pretty much all of the drivers here understand sharing with cyclists and pedestrians, so it is much safer for everyone. Because if the cyclist is in the wrong, the driver will still be cautious. I can't personally recall many instances in Oklahoma where drivers properly share the road with cyclists. In fact, more often than not, I saw drivers trying to run them off the road, or make them as nervous as possible.

[Teo9969]

I don't remember who linked this (I think I saw it on Twitter but it may have been someone who posts here too), but I watched this a few weeks back and it seemed like an excellent idea.

Probably Sid

[gopokes88]

Sometimes people on this board pick massive fights with massive icons expend tons of energy to get absolutely no where. In fact if anything they just get depressed because they lose 100-0, had they put up no fight still would lose 100-0. 499 in particular.

This though, this is something that everyone's energy should be expended on. This is winnable. These are the "battles" (I say that loosely no one is going to fight just the bureaucracy.) that are worth time and energy on.

[Urbanized]

I don't remember who linked this (I think I saw it on Twitter but it may have been someone who posts here too), but I watched this a few weeks back and it seemed like an excellent idea.

I love that, thanks for sharing. Just shared it on Twitter and copied Jon Dodson, Shane Hampton and Meg. I'm sure they've seen it (especially Shane and Jon), but still, brilliant!

[mugofbeer]

Classen is one of the few streets with sufficient capacity for the car volume. Instead of interfering with something that works, what about turning Western into that dedicated bike, bus or light rail route?

[SouthSide]

So how do they have this much pull with the ULI and the city? After three years the most ULI has come up with for Envision 240 is mowing and painting the underpasses. I like the Classen the area and am rooting for it but it would be nice if some of the love flowed south.