Streetcar

[kevinpate]

Also, don't forget you can take a river boat from I-40 & Meridian to the boathouse district them hop the Bricktown water taxi from there.

Doesn't tie in the airport directly to downtown but it does tie the largest concentration of hotel rooms to the central city.
...

Curious thought. Once the final transfer connection on river and canal is in place, will folks who stay in the Meridian corridor, which has both value priced and not so value priced rooms, flock to an hour or so float trip, then wait on a water taxi to cruise the canal, then hoof to eatery/bar A, B, and/or C, then reverse the process, or cab back? I would think hotel shuttle when available, and cab when not, would be far and away the more likely choice due to time and expense of the river/canal combo.

[BDK]

I'd also gladly canvass and make phone calls for anyone on this board who ran in one of those wards. I came up from Norman to canvass for Meg when the Tea Party types were making noise back when I was still in school. I will be in Shadid's ward for the foreseeable future, though.

[bradh]

It's voter apathy. He went door to door in his ward south of NW Expressway and it impressed people. Marrs just sent out a bunch of mail and that was it and it didn't work.

[bradh]

Curious thought. Once the final transfer connection on river and canal is in place, will folks who stay in the Meridian corridor, which has both value priced and not so value priced rooms, flock to an hour or so float trip, then wait on a water taxi to cruise the canal, then hoof to eatery/bar A, B, and/or C, then reverse the process, or cab back? I would think hotel shuttle when available, and cab when not, would be far and away the more likely choice due to time and expense of the river/canal combo.

I've thought about this too. The obvious answer is speedboats:

Kemah Boardwalk - The Fun Never Stops!

[Midtowner]

I think I get it. Again, it's the surgeon mentality.

We are --->here<---. In fact, I had typed that out in the previous message and deleted it because it's such a stereotype that it's not even fair. There are plenty of negative qualities to Shadid without even having to bring the surgeon's mentality thing into it. I figure we could call him an egotistical asshole and be done with it.

There doesn't seem to be anything in the way of qualifications required to be a city councilor. Run. We'll support you. You have to have more supporters than Greiner has church members in his ward.

It's a very conservative Ward. He ran as a Tea Party sort of candidate. There was a candidate who was well-qualified and had been very active in municipal issues. She came in 3rd. Churches run the show out here. That said, there's a lot of civic pride and voting against MAPS projects is something which will work well against Greener (I like that misspelling, it's appropriate on multiple levels) or any other Tea Party curmudgeon.

[kevinpate]

So the streetcar lives on. Oh, speaking of conspiracies, Swinton was taken to task over and over again by then candidate Shadid during the campaign about big money, anti-streetcar folks being behind the Swinton campaign. If that were true, when they lost their guy, did they become Shadid fans, and vicey versey? Let the sun reflect on yer tin foil hats over that one for a minute or three. Me, I have no idea. It's just seems odd to see someone appearing to adopt the platform he ran against.

[BoulderSooner]

So the streetcar lives on. Oh, speaking of conspiracies, Swinton was taken to task over and over again by then candidate Shadid during the campaign about big money, anti-streetcar folks being behind the Swinton campaign. If that were true, when they lost their guy, did they become Shadid fans, and vicey versey? Let the sun reflect on yer tin foil hats over that one for a minute or three. Me, I have no idea. It's just seems odd to see someone appearing to adopt the platform he ran against.

no but some of the swinton supporters that were not pro streetcar .. had their viewpoints altered as they learned more about the project and started to understand that not building the streetcar would destroy the Maps brand (despite what White and griner say)

[catch22]

I flew up to Portland, OR today. I have been riding their light rail and streetcar system around town for the past several hours. (Because I am really fun). After yesterday's meeting and today's riding the rail... I couldn't be more excited for the streetcar to happen in OKC. This is huge.

I have taken a couple of videos and photos with my iPhone. Will work on getting then online sometime.

[OKCisOK4me]

I flew up to Portland, OR today. I have been riding their light rail and streetcar system around town for the past several hours. (Because I am really fun). After yesterday's meeting and today's riding the rail... I couldn't be more excited for the streetcar to happen in OKC. This is huge.

I have taken a couple of videos and photos with my iPhone. Will work on getting then online sometime.

I bet you wouldn't have noticed that overhead catenary wire if it weren't such a huge deal down here, huh?

[catch22]

I bet you wouldn't have noticed that overhead catenary wire if it weren't such a huge deal down here, huh?

Yes. I was looking for them just so I could see how non obstructive they are.

[Midtowner]

You want to run? Apparently you don't need to know much at all. From what I read from you, I'd gladly vote for you over Greiner. We could probably find some funding as well.

I've honestly thought about it, but Greiner had the Greens and the Hobby Lobby money behind him. If someone was to contact me and have some sort of financial/boots on the ground proposition to back me, hell yeah. Otherwise, I'm not well connected enough to draw the big bucks it'd take to get elected. I've been critical enough of the Chamber that they wouldn't touch me with a 10-foot pole. I've been critical enough of social conservatives that I'm practically radioactive. If someone could tell me how despite all that, I'd be electable, I'm in.

That's a pretty tall order though. I do know one thing, I could demolish Greiner in a debate.

[OKVision4U]

OK, ....I am the guy that always wants the "electric" cables out of sight. I don't like the ones along all the streets. ( job security for OG&E ). Bury all the cables!

My preference truly is a MagLev system for ALL rail in OKC. It's just a clean 21st Century System. Thus giving us only (1) system in the metro as well as state-to-state.

[soonerguru]

I've honestly thought about it, but Greiner had the Greens and the Hobby Lobby money behind him. If someone was to contact me and have some sort of financial/boots on the ground proposition to back me, hell yeah. Otherwise, I'm not well connected enough to draw the big bucks it'd take to get elected. I've been critical enough of the Chamber that they wouldn't touch me with a 10-foot pole. I've been critical enough of social conservatives that I'm practically radioactive. If someone could tell me how despite all that, I'd be electable, I'm in.

That's a pretty tall order though. I do know one thing, I could demolish Greiner in a debate.

Chamber would rather have you.

[ljbab728]

I would think hotel shuttle when available, and cab when not, would be far and away the more likely choice due to time and expense of the river/canal combo.

I don't want to derail this into a river/canal issue but the expense wouldn't be an issue versus a taxi and I doubt that a hotel taxi for a hotel in the I40-Meridian area gives rides downtown.

[betts]

CITY OF OKC REQUESTS LETTERS OF INTEREST FROM STREETCAR VENDORS

This was exciting news at our meeting today. We've spent so many years talking about a route. Finally, we are moving beyond that. We also had a presentation on predicted economic development over the next ten years within the streetcar's sphere of influence that had some exciting statistics.

[CaptDave]

Sorry I couldn't make it to the subcommittee meeting today. I bet it was nice to be able to proceed with something other than "all route all the time"!

[krisb]

The perspective of this article may be misinformed, but it's a perception that is out there. As we move forward with the next steps in building the streetcar I would like to see even greater transparency and inclusiveness to combat this perception, for the sake of the MAPS brand.

RDR: At the root of the route

[kevinpate]

The perspective of this article may be misinformed, but it's a perception that is out there. As we move forward with the next steps in building the streetcar I would like to see even greater transparency and inclusiveness to combat this perception, for the sake of the MAPS brand.

RDR: At the root of the route

It i a perception that is out there. It is also one that seems deliberately pushed by some, and seemingly for little purpose other than to generate discord and strife and raise the ire of the aginner crowd. I can't say I agree the concerns are factual.

[ABryant]

The perspective of this article may be misinformed, but it's a perception that is out there. As we move forward with the next steps in building the streetcar I would like to see even greater transparency and inclusiveness to combat this perception, for the sake of the MAPS brand.

RDR: At the root of the route

Wow.. that article is so tabloid that James Ellroy could have written it.

[Midtowner]

The perspective of this article may be misinformed, but it's a perception that is out there. As we move forward with the next steps in building the streetcar I would like to see even greater transparency and inclusiveness to combat this perception, for the sake of the MAPS brand.

RDR: At the root of the route

So you'd be more in favor of a process which wouldn't consult with property owners or the entity which represents all local businesses?

Why not just pick the route by throwing darts at a map?

[BoulderSooner]

The perspective of this article may be misinformed, but it's a perception that is out there. As we move forward with the next steps in building the streetcar I would like to see even greater transparency and inclusiveness to combat this perception, for the sake of the MAPS brand.

RDR: At the root of the route

Garbage

[Midtowner]

Garbage

This is why the "loyal opposition" label is ludicrous. They don't have a solution. They just want to stop progress because someone wealthy might be a beneficiary of progress. They obviously have contempt for successful people, developers and businesses.

When building mass transit, seriously, what is the alternative? How are we going to build mass transit and make damn sure no one benefits from it? MAPS has always been about growing the economy through development which attracts businesses. One of the keys to attracting big business is a vibrant, fun, accessible downtown. The Not This Maps II folks are missing the forest for the trees.

Q: How do we pay for expanded transit?
A: Expand the tax base.
Q: How do we expand the tax base?
A: Get more people to shop and live in OKC and attract businesses.
Q: How do we accomplish that?
A: By making OKC a more attractive place to shop and live and have a business.

While public transit better serving lower income neighborhoods is certainly a laudable goal, let's not put the cart before the horse. MAPS has historically been a major growth vehicle. It will continue to be such. MAPS is a gamble, but it's one which has historically paid off.

[betts]

I believe this idea that there was no transparency or inclusiveness is being promulgated by those who failed to pay attention to the MAPS political process and subsequent early citizen involvement .

Again, Ed didn't vote in any of the MAPS elections. I never saw a single comment by him pro or con, on any blog or in any news media, even as a private citizen. I never saw him at any of the 2010 public meetings ( I think there were 7). He came late to the table, but it wasn't because he lived elsewhere. How about you, or Nick Singer, since I see he's tweeting the same rhetoric? Did you go to any of the public meetings, did you attend any of the AA or subcommittee meetings and speak at them, as is your right as a citizen? I don't know this red dirt reporter, but its obvious whose mouthpiece s/he is. I'd just like some data showing these people complaining about lack of transparency were actually trying to look through the window.

[Hutch]

The perspective of this article may be misinformed, but it's a perception that is out there. As we move forward with the next steps in building the streetcar I would like to see even greater transparency and inclusiveness to combat this perception, for the sake of the MAPS brand.

Greater transparency and inclusiveness? You obviously didn't read my earlier post or take the time to review the information referenced with regard to the public scoping and review processes that led to selection of the route. Nick mentioned to someone the other day that you are responsible for "soft-selling" Ed's campaign message to this forum. It seems that all of Ed's worker bees have contracted his same affliction of believing that the world began when Ed was elected to Council. If Ed and his supporters truly want the streetcar to be all that it can be, then I suggest they begin by educating themselves on the actual history of the route selection process, as opposed to continuing to propagate conspiracy theories, misinformation and other garbage like the RDR. Here's my post again. It's a good place to start.

One of Ed's biggest failings is that he has almost total disregard for and disinterest in understanding the facts and complexities of the extensive public scoping efforts, technical reviews and decision-making processes that occurred prior to his election. It's NOT that the route selection process took place in a vacuum. It's that his reality of the facts with regard to the route selection process IS a vacuum as to anything that happened prior to his being elected.

That attitude was on full display yesterday at the City Council meeting during the streetcar debate where he once again raised his ridiculous conspiracy theory about the streetcar route. His completely inaccurate view of the nature and history of the route, and his misunderstanding of how thinking about the route went from a hub and spoke concept prior to the MAPS 3 vote to a couplet design is due to the fact that his perception of reality begins when he joined Council and became a part of the discussion.

It's NOT that many of us didn't make an enormous effort to try to educate him about the streetcar and help him to understand the history that existed before he was elected. It's that he didn't care to listen and decided that his distorted view of reality was the only valid one.

Here's the link to the Let's Talk Transit summary report on the extensive public scoping effort that began the streetcar route selection process in March of 2010:

Let's Talk Transit Summary Report

- "Let's Talk Transit (LTT) scoping process generated more public participation and community support than any previous COTPA-led initiative"
- More than 300 people participated in public meetings
- More than 1100 people completed online surveys
- Dozens of potential routes were offered and reviewed
- 6 concpetual alignments and 14 basic north/south and east west corridors were selected to move forward for detailed analysis under the "Greater Downtown Oklahoma City Circulator Alternatives Analysis" (AA)

Here's a link to the AA Steering Committee and Public meeting reports that took place in 2010 and 2011:

AA Meeting Reports

- AA undertaken over a one-year period to determine transit mode and routing that best serves future downtown needs, including a Modern Streetcar system
- AA directed by 23-member steering committee made up of elected City officials, City staff, and numerous citizens representing transit and other civic organizations, neighborhood alliances, local businesses, and local education and health organizations
- Extensive analysis of streetcar routing options brought forward as a result of the LTT process
- AA process resulted in recommendation of Modern Streetcar as best mode for future downtown transit
- AA resulted in recommendation and approval of a Locally Preferred Alternative (LPA) for streetcar routing
- LPA was provided to MAPS 3 Transit Subcommittee for further review and consideration.

Quite clearly one of the most open, transparent and extensive public scoping, project review and decision-making processes ever to take place in Oklahoma City. But Ed Shadid wasn't involved in any of those processes, which all took place before he appeared in 2011.

If Ed had ever taken the time to review all of this material, maybe he would have understood that it was the citizenry participating in this unprecedented public scoping process that wanted the streetcar to serve Bricktown, Midtown, Arts District, Ford Center, Oklahoma National Memorial and CBD. And it was the citizenry that first proposed couplets to connect those destinations. It wasn't Jeff Bezdek. It wasn't Rick Gustafson. It wasn't because of some secret couplet conspiracy. No, it was the citizenry who led the way...first on voting to approve the MAPS 3 initiative based on their support for building the streetcar and then by their participation in what was and continues to be an outstading public process.

And now, less than 24 hours after having said and done everything imaginable to try to undermine and destroy the process and the project, Ed wants to work together to make the streetcar the best it can be. I'm sorry, but we don't need his kind of help. The citizenry is doing just fine without him.

[catch22]

There was plenty of information available around that time. I remember because I looked into the matter as it was developing.

Sometimes you have to look for information, it's not always handed out to you.

You hear of a development that interests you or you may have an interest in learning about. Go research the information. Don't expect a packet in the mail over every civic issue.