Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[mkjeeves]

Where did you get the 30% number?

From the video you posted and I referenced. There was a fair amount of discussion about it. You didn't watch it?

From Debbie Ragan with the OKC Water Dept, "According to the OKC Water Department, about 60 percent of municipal water is used for outdoor watering."

Here's the link OKC encouraging residents to let grass go | KFOR.com ? Oklahoma City News & Weather from KFOR Television, Oklahoma's News Channel 4

That's a story of what was reportedly said by the water department from last August about water use in August, how hard a time pumps have keeping up etc. Don't you think she meant use was 60% at that time? What percent do you think it is now during the winter? Have news outlets ever gotten their facts and quotes wrong?


The rate in the video was from the water department too, straight from the horses mouth, and was most definitely about annual use. That report was saying water restrictions on watering could capture part of that 30% but that it was already low compared to national rates. Shadid's point was that with conservation indoors, and improvements like better toilets, we could beat that average and conserve part of that indoor use too.

[C_M_25]

Where did you get the 30% number?

From Debbie Ragan with the OKC Water Dept, "According to the OKC Water Department, about 60 percent of municipal water is used for outdoor watering."

Here's the link OKC encouraging residents to let grass go | KFOR.com ? Oklahoma City News & Weather from KFOR Television, Oklahoma's News Channel 4

Way to go. You pulled a link from August 2012 talking about water use for August 2012. Your argument is invalid unless you prove to me without a reasonable doubt that the OKC water department went house to house and measured the amount of water that went onto people's yards. They didn't. That number is speculative at best.

[Snowman]

Way to go. You pulled a link from August 2012 talking about water use for August 2012. Your argument is invalid unless you prove to me without a reasonable doubt that the OKC water department went house to house and measured the amount of water that went onto people's yards. They didn't. That number is speculative at best.

For billing they generally us a sample of what you use in the winter when grass is dormant to set a base for how much you use for household use, then use the difference between what you use in the summer with your grass alive for outdoor use. That may be where they get the estimate for this too. We could have an abnormally large percentage of people watering when it does no good but probably not.

[MarkAFuqua]

I'm honestly sitting here and have been since watching the video, trying to figure out how the heck they know how much water is used outdoors or indoors??? Doesn't that have to be purely a speculative figure??

I can assure you of one thing, I have caught them (OCWUT and OKC officials) giving false figures on the news to make their story look better many many times!! So why wouldn't they fudge the 30% outdoor figure?? Why wouldn't they fudge the figures on how good OKC is compared to other cities in being conservative??

They have done it with many other things in the news.... such as repeatedly saying "Lake Hefner water is a major source of "DRINKING" water for 1.2 million people"....that is such bull and we all know it. Approximately 200K people rely on water from Hefner for anything from "drinking" to flushing toilets and watering their lawn and washing their car and.......so they exaggerate the figure of how many people to make it sound more important and they claim "drinking" water to make it more important and so on...

They continue to try and "sell" the public the story that there really isn't a water crisis...... they LIE!

[law]

From the video you posted and I referenced. There was a fair amount of discussion about it. You didn't watch it?
The rate in the video was from the water department too, and was most definitely about annual use. That report was saying water restrictions on watering could capture part of that 30% but that it was already low compared to national rates. Shadid's point was that with conservation indoors, and improvements like better toilets, we could beat that average and conserve part of that indoor use too.

Yes, I have watched the video several times. OKCWT is currently in a PR campaign to protect their decisions from criticism. I'm looking for numbers they promoted as fact before the latest crisis. In this warmer, drier trend, I would think outdoor use has not dropped that much. I am certainly not a water system analyst, but I do not see how pumps keeping up or not changes how the water is used. Since there is no metering of outdoor use, IMHO, it seems to me any percentage quoted is only a guesstimate, at best. I have seen little effort to save any water indoors or out.

Did you watch the climatologist. Those drought circles are over the area drained by Canton Lake. If the weather continues like it did from fall 2010 until now, there will not be 30,000 acre-ft next year, and the next year, and the year after. If we are in a 7-10 year cycle, and we are only thru 2+ years, we may have 7-8 years left.

The city councilmen showed a complete lack of care or understanding of the situation. As long as Slaughter says there is plenty of water, we're all good to go!

[mkjeeves]

Maybe the Canton water truthers could come up with some actual comparative water use facts about OKC and other cities. (Be sure to include Canton residents in those figures just for reference.) I bet they won't though because I'm pretty sure they will find the facts don't fit with their narrative we all have our indoor and outdoor faucets running 24/7.

Personally, I'm finding the BS and acrimony wearing a little thin.

[law]

Imagine what would your feelings would be if Dallas bought all the Sardis water? And told OKC tough. We're bigger, we're better, were more important that you. We are the economic driver in this region. We need water! It's our water, we paid for it. How dare you unimportant people in OKC question us? Criticize us? Just shut up, we tire of these bitter complaints. But, come to our wonderful, beautiful Dallas and spend your money here.

We only continue because we believe real problems may be coming soon for the residents of OKC dependent on Hefner water. Real problems for Hefner are multiplied 1000 times or more for us. If our city council and water dept makes a foolish decision, it has no effect on you. If your city council and OKCWT makes a foolish decision, it destroys us, our businesses, our environment. So, when we destroy your lives, I'll listen, and I'll try to help solve the problem, and I will certainly have empathy for those who are the victims.

[MarkAFuqua]

Maybe the Canton water truthers could come up with some actual comparative water use facts about OKC and other cities. (Be sure to include Canton residents in those figures just for reference.) I bet they won't though because I'm pretty sure they will find the facts don't fit with their narrative we all have our indoor and outdoor faucets running 24/7.

Personally, I'm finding the BS and acrimony wearing a little thin.

Wait, since I am only a dumb redneck from the sticks....first thing on my agenda is to go google "acrimony"!!!!! ;-)

[HOT ROD]

Interesting point above; but Dallas does not reside in Oklahoma and OKC is the capital and by far largest city of this jurisdiction.

Not to fan, just a point of clarification... ...

I wish I could send some of our plentiful Pac NW water you guys' way. Best of Wishes.

[law]

Interesting point above; but Dallas does not reside in Oklahoma and OKC is the capital and by far largest city of this jurisdiction.

Not to fan, just a point of clarification... ...

I wish I could send some of our plentiful Pac NW water you guys' way. Best of Wishes.

We would certainly take it. Dallas was trying to buy the Sardis water. I believe they recently had to pass as state law to prevent OK water from being sold to Texas. So, the point is not totally out of the realm of possibility. And, there are still lawsuits pending.

Thanks for the best wishes!

[Midtowner]

IIRC, that didn't have anything to do with Sardis and more with Hugo and the fact that the Arbuckle Simpson is a sole-source aquifer. If they drained it, it'd be a major blow for the entire area.

[Easy180]

If it helps ease anyone's mind I can safely say my neighborhood has cut our water consumption since the drought began...Don't see very many trying valiantly to retain a Better Homes and Gardens lawn

[law]

If it helps ease anyone's mind I can safely say my neighborhood has cut our water consumption since the drought began...Don't see very many trying valiantly to retain a Better Homes and Gardens lawn

Thanks! Small amounts add up.

[law]

IIRC, that didn't have anything to do with Sardis and more with Hugo and the fact that the Arbuckle Simpson is a sole-source aquifer. If they drained it, it'd be a major blow for the entire area.

How about draining Canton Lake being a major blow to all of western OK?

[Midtowner]

How about draining Canton Lake being a major blow to all of western OK?

It's not.

Canton is a small and economically insignificant town. Population 620. That's smaller than many grade schools 'round these parts.

Outside of maybe having to drive a little farther to fish, the rest of Western OK is not really affected. A few bait and tackle shops are going to close in order to provide water to central OK. I can live with it.

[law]

So if it's only $$$'s, you should watch out for the Dallas metro. I'm sure they consider you insignificant. As will others upscale from OKC. Certainly you are a fine example of fly-over attitudes. You may have some importance in your own mind, but there are many things you cannot provide for yourself, besides water.

[Midtowner]

So if it's only $$$'s, you should watch out for the Dallas metro. I'm sure they consider you insignificant. As will others upscale from OKC. Certainly you are a fine example of fly-over attitudes. You may have some importance in your own mind, but there are many things you cannot provide for yourself, besides water.

Okay, cut us off from fishing tackle. I think we'll be okay. Dallas is after the storage rights of Hugo and after whatever rights the tribes think they have in Sardis, which is a weak argument. That's not really on our map at the moment.

[law]

The draw continues. Where do you think the next 30,000 acre feet will come from? Shame you aren't as important to the world as you think you are.




This is from the other side of the lake, but shooting across the same area, but one boat taking photos of another boat.

[Edgar]

OKC got theirs. That's the important thing. It's a big league city on the rise. don't mess with the mo" Water conservation measures during historic drought would be bad pub if it gets out. Sorry about the massive fish kill that likely is going to occur this summer, devestating the the recreation economy, but whiny people in Nichols Hills just have to have a lush green lawn.

[Bellaboo]

OKC got theirs. That's the important thing. It's a big league city on the rise. don't mess with the mo" Water conservation measures during historic drought would be bad pub if it gets out. Sorry about the massive fish kill that likely is going to occur this summer, devestating the the recreation economy, but whiny people in Nichols Hills just have to have a lush green lawn.

Ed,
Why don't you come back when you have a clue. Stop posting uninformed nonsense. Nichols Hills gets their water from 23 wells from the Garber - Wellington aquifer - They do not get it from Lake Hefner thus Canton.

City of Nichols Hills - Water/Sewer Department Homepage

[mkjeeves]

Wait, since I am only a dumb redneck from the sticks....first thing on my agenda is to go google "acrimony"!!!!! ;-)

Maybe when you are done with that you could try getting familiar with the word "Facts" and emailing that to a few of your close friends,

especially since the stated reason you, law and a few others have suddenly appeared on the scene is to educate us.

[Edgar]

Ed,
Why don't you come back when you have a clue. Stop posting uninformed nonsense. Nichols Hills gets their water from 23 wells from the Garber - Wellington aquifer - They do not get it from Lake Hefner thus Canton.

City of Nichols Hills - Water/Sewer Department Homepage

Thanks for setting me straight Boo- whiny people in the Village. does that work. Point is, OKC has imperiled the health of Canton Lake rather than come up with a water conservation plan. The release wasn't necessary at this time. OKC wanted to make sure they got theirs, screw Canton. Greedy short sighted leadership in OKC.

[Easy180]

Thanks for setting me straight Boo- whiny people in the Village. does that work. Point is, OKC has imperiled the health of Canton Lake rather than come up with a water conservation plan. The release wasn't necessary at this time. OKC wanted to make sure they got theirs, screw Canton. Greedy short sighted leadership in OKC.

And Moore and Edmond...We are whiny too

[MarkAFuqua]

Maybe when you are done with that you could try getting familiar with the word "Facts" and emailing that to a few of your close friends,

especially since the stated reason you, law and a few others have suddenly appeared on the scene is to educate us.

Yes, Jeeves...I did use the word "educate" at one point or another, but I believe the way I used it was to "educate" the good people of OKC about the severity of the situation and the adverse affects this release was having on Canton Lake and surrounding communities.

I am hoping there are some goodhearted folks following this feed that just didn't realize how serious the situation was.... but now that they do they will begin to see why voluntary conservation is so important. Most people don't live by the creed that they always have to take everything that is theirs, just because it's theirs, especially if it's going to harm a lot of other people by doing so. I did say most people...we have to leave room for others in this conversation who think they are the most important thing on the planet and always have to be right.

I have seen so many good people from OKC joining the side of the Canton Lake supporters after they hear the facts that it is amazing. I have had many, many good folks reach out and offer to help us with our situation by educating their neighbors about the detrimental effects of this release and how important water conservation is. So you keep arguing your points and trying to belittle us out here and I will just keep trying to "educate" the people who have a heart about what's really going on.

Anytime a communities growth comes at the cost of their fellow statesmen, I just can't see that as being the best we can do as people from Oklahoma. Anytime someone says it's our right because we are bigger and more powerful than you, and we don't really care the damage it does to you, then I think they have missed the boat on being a good human.

Again though, I don't blame the people of OKC for this mess, I blame the people in power there.

[law]

I took this photo April 2012.....Very, very low then.......




More to go....soon to be dead.